CCX intermittent power

[jinim]

2018/12/07 Update on the contact problem of my CCX:

I have not received the replacement port assy yet from the manufacturer, as promised. As I mentioned before, the bike has intermittent power biking on minor bumps, and I can reproduce the problem by applying a small pressure on the right side of the battery. The battery is very well engaged, mechanically .

Today I removed the battery and noticed that the positive female sleeve of the battery connector started to degrade -see pic below. The edges show some sparking activity, indicative of a marginal electrical connection, although still is usable. Most of the sleeve is still in good condition. I also noticed that the positive male pin of the frame port was slightly shorter than the negative pin, as measured from the edge of the plastic body of the connector. The pin is not loose, it is firm in place, just slightly shorter. Unless it is done by design, the difference is just a manufacturing "deviation." The difference is noticeable by eye, but just an insignificant 0.02". This seems to be enough to make a bad engagement; it also means that the "good engagement" is only slightly more than 0.02". The male positive pin also shows signs of the sparking activity.

The bike still operates. Now I am going to use some adhesive tape or tie-wrap to keep the battery as much to the right as I can, until I receive the straps I ordered. Hope I receive a new port assembly before the battery connector becomes worthless.

You might need a brand new battery if the contacts have melted. If you look at my thread from a while back, I had the exact same issue. The bike would work on occasion, but then suddenly cut power after riding for 5-10 miles. I’ve had a new battery now for about 5 months and haven’t had any problems since using the strap and new battery.

 

[SirJonathan]

These posts are priceless. I have slight apprehension in ordering a Juiced bike because frankly, I don't know much about the company and some of the posts here (and elsewhere) about sporadic technical support responses have me concerned. I'm only an hour away from Juiced and that comforts me somewhat. I do like the CCX and believe it offers incredible value for money. I'm also new to eBikes in general having learned a great deal in a very short time. Two months ago they weren't on my radar.

We bought a Tesla in 2012 which was crazy back then. Karma Fisker was just about done and I told my wife we'd either be the smartest people on our block or the dumbest. We had multiple issues with the car from the beginning but it never stranded us (six years running now) and Tesla always came through and made things right. It's been problem free for two years now and I see that continuing for the foreseeable future.

And the battery? We charge to 90% always and it never gets below 30% other than on occasional road trips. It has 98% of its original capacity now. We've survived the "Tesla fires", the impending bankruptcy days, airbag recalls, reinforcement of the front end due to ONE guy having his battery punctured at 80mph on the freeway, etc.

As an early adopter I feel you must have a pioneering mindset and roll with the punches for the greater good. That's what I see here with posts like these. In a perfect world you shouldn't have to shimmy the battery in place to ride 10 miles with uninterrupted power, but that's not the point. We're all taking a chance and we're throwing our experiences out there to make the product better and help others.

Thank you all for these posts and recommended fixes. It also helps to understand that I shouldn't expect perfection with the CCX and adjust my mindset accordingly.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

As an early adopter I feel you must have a pioneering mindset and roll with the punches for the greater good. That's what I see here with posts like these. In a perfect world you shouldn't have to shimmy the battery in place to ride 10 miles with uninterrupted power, but that's not the point. We're all taking a chance and we're throwing our experiences out there to make the product better and help others.

That's a great point and well said too.

I'd like to throw this in, too: we have no idea what the statistics are on things like mean time before failure, prompt and successful service, etc. They could be great! Just because we see some complaints that are truly not handled well doesn't mean that those are even 1% of the total. Might be a lot, might not, we just don't know.

 

[jom]

Update 2018/12/08 on intermittent power:

Today I removed the port assembly from the frame, and observed that when the port assembly is out of the frame, the engament of the connectors frame-to-battery is very good. You can feel the connectors' engagement force being substantial. You can also see the relative position of the port assembly and the battery when the port assembly has been removed from the frame, and it's quite different, much better, about 4 mm deeper, than when the port assembly is mounted to the frame. That is, the parts themselves fit reasonably well when out of the frame. A complete different story when the port assembly is mounted to the frame.

Conclusions: The port assembly needs some minor dimensional changes to the design. Other potential solution is to make a minor modification of the frame connector, if it is a proprietary design. Anyways, this is up to the vendor to take action; I am inclined to think this is not just a problem with my bike, and that at some time others may experience power downs on their bikes. The good news (to the vendor) is that it is not an expensive solution to make the whole thing more reliable, and changing the parts is easy to do by the users. The quality of the connectors could be improved, and the inspection of them, as well: one of the pins of my port connector is slightly but visibly shorter than the other. The pins are not loose, they have not been pushed in as somebody else has reported before. Another observation: the locking pin does not come flash to the plastic when turning the key, what makes the insertion and removal of the battery a little more difficult.

Diagnostic: If you had an unexplained power down in your bike, I would recommend that you hit the battery from the left, and try to power up, then hit the battery from the right and see if you can reproduce the problem. If the answer is yes, waiting to have a serious degradation of the battery contacts will create an inconvenience for both the user and the vendor. Given the currents involved, I would not use a bike that has a power down problem caused by its battery-to-frame connector. Not a safety issue, just to prevent spoiling the battery connector.

In the meantime: It seems there are no new port assemblies available at the vendor (?) (I have not received the port assembly I was promised), so in the meantime I did the following: In order to improve the engagement of the connectors themselves, I removed the port assembly, then the silver nut that keeps the frame connector to the port assembly, then removed the connector, and observed that I could gain a little more engagement by removing one of the o-rings that make the connector assembly water-tight. By removing the o-ring that seals the connector body to the port assembly, I could gain about 1 mm or less in engagement distance. It is the larger of the two o-rings. I reassembled the connector, tightened the silver nut, very lightly oiled the surface of plastic connectors to facilitate their relative displacement, and reassembled the whole thing. Installed the battery and then tested. Again, I observed that still the battery can be moved slightly to the left and right while being mechanically engaged, but now the power is not interrupted when I hit the battery from the right side. So the little better engagement that I obtained by removing the o-ring at the back of the port connector, made a difference. Still, the engagement is marginal, but adding a velcro strap to keep the battery to the right, I hope it will work without degrading the battery connector any further (see pic. my previous update). Again, this is just a short term fix, not a proposed permanent solution.

I also ground with a dremel tool the end of the locking pin so that now it is flash to the plastic when the key is turned, facilitating the engagement of the battery.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Juiced Bikes does keep an eye on the forum, @jom. I won't be surprised if your observations are incorporated in a subsequent build. You've stated the case clearly and thoroughly. They'd be fools not to give your ideas careful consideration, and I see no sign of fools at JB.

 

[jom]

Update 2018/12/09 on intermittent power:

This bike is impressive, in performance vs. price, features, power, speed. Readers that are thinking on buying a new bike by no means should be discouraged by these relatively minor, solvable problems.

Reference is made to the picture "shorter-pin.jpg" below. The port connector removed from the port assembly is shown. There are two o-rings to make the connector water-tight, one at each end of the threads. I removed both o-rings when I took the picture . The positive pin (the one at the right in the picture, is slightly shorter, not by much). While this is not the root cause, in conjuction with the poor battery-to-port electrical & mechanical engagement when in-the-frame, started the sparking problem. When I reassembled the whole thing, I did not install the o-rings back, what improved the electrical engagement by the width of the compressed o-ring, not much. Without the o-rings in place, water can get into the connection. It seems that this connector is a proprietary design; I could not find a replacement that can be procured on Amazon or other vendors.

In the picture "port-assy-inserted-in-battery-out-of-the-frame.jpg", the port assembly is shown connected to the battery, both out of the frame. The insertion is perfect, the insertion force is very good and the electrical and mechanical fit cannot be better. Unfortunately this is not the situation when the port assy is installed in the frame. In that case the battery is prevented from inserting correctly to the port by the frame wall. This seems to be the root cause.

As stated in my previous post, the port assembly may require a re-design. (I am assuming that my bike is not the only one to have this issue.) An alternative, less desirable but probably less expensive solution would be to make the connector about 4 mm longer; I wouldn't recommend it.

Since I removed the o-rings I could not reproduce the problem by pushing the battery to the left with my right hand. I couldn't ride the bike since then due to the weather conditions; I'll report when weather allows.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

AFAIK the connection is standard Reention Dorado assembly. Do a search for it and a ton of vendors on Alibaba will pop up.

 

[jom]

AFAIK the connection is standard Reention Dorado assembly. Do a search for it and a ton of vendors on Alibaba will pop up.

Thanks Bruce, I ordered a piece that is similar but not identical from Aliexpress.

 

[jom]

Update 2018/12/25 on intermittent power on CCX:

Last week Juiced Bikes sent me a new replacement battery and promised to send a new wide port assembly, which I did not receive yet. I assume they don't have it in stock at this time. The original battery was showing the initial degradation of the connector sockets, a sign of electric spiking.
I changed the battery; the new one fits a little better (a more snag fit) than the original battery, and I am keeping it as much to the right as possible by means of two velcro straps. See pic. below: new battery with two straps. Straps are 24" long by 2" wide, and they were ordered from Amazon.

With the original battery, I was able to move it right to left about 1 mm or so, what interrupted the power, by just tapping with my hand on the right side. With the new battery, even without the straps, it feels more "locked in place". BUT, as previously posted, I had to remove the two o-rings from the frame port male connector, what makes for slightly better insertion of the port connector pins into the battery connector sockets. By no means I consider this "a good practice", only a temporary fix. By removing the o-rings, the connector is no longer water-tight, so I have to keep the bike dry.

Since then, I have not experienced any drop in power during the last 80 miles, including several miles of relatively rough road. Total mileage as of today is 183 miles.

I have to mention that the Juiced service team has been very responsive to my request for a solution, and they took the initiative to order the replacement parts, without me asking for. I appreciate their service, although I wished they kept me informed on the status of each request and order, without the need to ask every week.

I am, so far, very pleased with the performance of the bike, excepts for the fenders, as reported by other users. I am waiting for the new port assembly and will report, hopefully for the last time on this issue, when I receive it.

 

[jinim]

Update 2018/12/25 on intermittent power on CCX:

Last week Juiced Bikes sent me a new replacement battery and promised to send a new wide port assembly, which I did not receive yet. I assume they don't have it in stock at this time. The original battery was showing the initial degradation of the connector sockets, a sign of electric spiking.
I changed the battery; the new one fits a little better (a more snag fit) than the original battery, and I am keeping it as much to the right as possible by means of two velcro straps. See pic. below: new battery with two straps. Straps are 24" long by 2" wide, and they were ordered from Amazon.

With the original battery, I was able to move it right to left about 1 mm or so, what interrupted the power, by just tapping with my hand on the right side. With the new battery, even without the straps, it feels more "locked in place". BUT, as previously posted, I had to remove the two o-rings from the frame port male connector, what makes for slightly better insertion of the port connector pins into the battery connector sockets. By no means I consider this "a good practice", only a temporary fix. By removing the o-rings, the connector is no longer water-tight, so I have to keep the bike dry.

Since then, I have not experienced any drop in power during the last 80 miles, including several miles of relatively rough road. Total mileage as of today is 183 miles.

I have to mention that the Juiced service team has been very responsive to my request for a solution, and they took the initiative to order the replacement parts, without me asking for. I appreciate their service, although I wished they kept me informed on the status of each request and order, without the need to ask every week.

I am, so far, very pleased with the performance of the bike, excepts for the fenders, as reported by other users. I am waiting for the new port assembly and will report, hopefully for the last time on this issue, when I receive it.

That's good the straps resolved your issue. I have one velcro strap that I use to keep the battery to the frame. I think it's been about 4-5 months since I got a new battery, and I haven't had any power/battery issues since. It's not ideal, but it works. Juiced really should come up with some design solution to resolve this issue. Even with the battery issues and poor CS I received, I'd still recommend Juiced given the price point vs. features. It seems like they've staffed up the CS department better, but they still need to fix the battery design.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Juiced really should come up with some design solution to resolve this issue. Even with the battery issues and poor CS I received, I'd still recommend Juiced given the price point vs. features. It seems like they've staffed up the CS department better, but they still need to fix the battery design.

I kind of agree. It's not been a common problem, but does keep coming up.

The problem is this. @Tora Harris is plenty competent to design a battery mount that wouldn't have this problem. But then you'd lose backward compatibility, and you'd have a proprietary mount that couldn't be bought anywhere else. I believe from what he's said that he wants to avoid all that.

 

[jinim]

I kind of agree. It's not been a common problem, but does keep coming up.

The problem is this. @Tora Harris is plenty competent to design a battery mount that wouldn't have this problem. But then you'd lose backward compatibility, and you'd have a proprietary mount that couldn't be bought anywhere else. I believe from what he's said that he wants to avoid all that.

Again, I’m not an engineer, but it seems like a very simple and cost effective solution is to just make the male connector spring loaded so it’s applying constant and direct pressure against the battery connector. It only takes a small amount of movement to cause the connection to fail where the power cuts out or eventually the connector melts. At some point this could be a safety recall if we apply the same standard as other forms of transportation. I bike to work at 6am when it’s still dark and go around 30mph on the street with traffic. I have the bike rear light on and have another light I keep on my backpack, but if power were to cut out and there was a car behind me, I could see a car hit me with a sudden and unexpected drop in my speed. There’s a bunch of other use cases where this is a potential safety concern. Using a strap to secure the battery has resolved this issue for me, but it’s not exactly the best solution. I suppose Juiced could create their own strap to secure the battery, but I don’t see why making the connector spring loaded wouldn’t work as well or better.

 

[Feliz]

It looks like Juiced is just ignoring the issue, I know of no fixes or even recommendations from them and yes, this is a safety hazard and should not be ignored.

 

[SirJonathan]

I only have 100 miles on my CCX. The connection is solid as a rock so far. I've only removed the battery once and charge with it on the bike. I suppose this is something that could show up after a few more miles are on the bike and it's jostled around a lot more.

 

[bikerjohn]

I only have 100 miles on my CCX. The connection is solid as a rock so far. I've only removed the battery once and charge with it on the bike. I suppose this is something that could show up after a few more miles are on the bike and it's jostled around a lot more.

Not to mention the 13# weight of the battery, but also in light of understanding an intermittent connection being a suspected wear issue, I have decided to leave the battery installed on the bike for most recharging.

 

[SirJonathan]

Makes me wonder if buying a couple cheap velcro straps like others have done would be prudent to proactively stop any side to side movement that may show up later. Not really anything to lose if you charge the bike with the battery still on it.

 

[youth]

I wonder if I should do the same on my recently acquired CCX. I did have to do something similar on my original CC after several thousand miles. Only I used zip ties with one near the connector area & tight enough to prevent the battery from moving but with enough give to slide it off.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Again, I’m not an engineer, but it seems like a very simple and cost effective solution is to just make the male connector spring loaded so it’s applying constant and direct pressure against the battery connector. It only takes a small amount of movement to cause the connection to fail where the power cuts out or eventually the connector melts. At some point this could be a safety recall if we apply the same standard as other forms of transportation. I bike to work at 6am when it’s still dark and go around 30mph on the street with traffic. I have the bike rear light on and have another light I keep on my backpack, but if power were to cut out and there was a car behind me, I could see a car hit me with a sudden and unexpected drop in my speed. There’s a bunch of other use cases where this is a potential safety concern. Using a strap to secure the battery has resolved this issue for me, but it’s not exactly the best solution. I suppose Juiced could create their own strap to secure the battery, but I don’t see why making the connector spring loaded wouldn’t work as well or better.

It looks like Juiced is just ignoring the issue, I know of no fixes or even recommendations from them and yes, this is a safety hazard and should not be ignored.

Gentlemen, your point is well taken. But as with any issue like this, in any class of vehicle, it has to be asked: how many does the problem affect? How serious is it? The NHTSA doesn't issue a recall for every defect; there's no specific number of reports before a recall is declared. No doubt the person who has a certain safety-related problem thinks it is worth a recall, regardless. "Acceptable level of risk" is in the eye of the beholder.

Juiced may feel that this is covered under warranty and that there are not enough instances to require a change in the equipment. Could they do a better job of warranty service? Probably.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I only have 100 miles on my CCX. The connection is solid as a rock so far. I've only removed the battery once and charge with it on the bike. I suppose this is something that could show up after a few more miles are on the bike and it's jostled around a lot more.

Probably not. In 2000+ miles I haven't had this problem.

 

[Feliz]

I only have 100 miles on my CCX. The connection is solid as a rock so far. I've only removed the battery once and charge with it on the bike. I suppose this is something that could show up after a few more miles are on the bike and it's jostled around a lot more.

I haven't had the issue yet myself, I was proactive and purchased nice Velcro straps on Amazon from the link someone posted and I don't anticipate having any issue now with the straps on.