Car Power Inverter

[Seattle]

I’m looking for comments from anyone that has successfully purchased a car power inverter so they can recharge the battery pack on their ebike using the car’s cigarette lighter port. What type of car power inverter did you purchase and what wattage worked for you?

I have a 2017 Giant Quick-E. Battery info: EnergyPak 500, 36v, 13.8Ah, Rechargable Lithium-Ion.

Thanks!

 

[Alex M]

Deeply discharged 500WH battery could drain your car battery to the point that it won't start again.

Charging while on the road isn't a good idea either, without adequate safeguards in place.

But, if you must... Get a Pure Sine type inverter with continuous wattage rating slightly exceeding your charger wattage. Modified Sine type the battery may or may not like. It doesn't matter what wattage worked for others, you need to match your charger wattage (and slightly exceed it).

 

[joshuaho96]

I wouldn’t advise running an inverter off of the cigarette lighter. Those things usually have a fuse, sometimes as low as 5A which means 60W before conversion losses. Get an inverter that directly connects to the battery and make sure you keep the car running while you use it. Lead acid batteries age rapidly when you discharge them too much before charging.

 

[Alex M]

Cig socket itself is rated 10A (usually). Which is right at the limit of a small 2A charger, considering conversion and losses. Though fuse can be less than 10A. Upgrading the fuse and wires... Making sure your charger doesn't draw more than 100W... Doable, with a bit of pain.
I wouldn't want to drive with a battery charging on the seat next to me, and idling the engine for hours, for measly 100W output, is such a waste of fuel...

 

[PDoz]

Watching this is one - I already have a 2000 w modified sine wave inverter in my shed that runs DIRECTLY off deep cycle batteries / is solar recharged etc , It's great for running power tools etc but I haven't had the courage to connect my giants charger because I've heard scary stories of laptop charges dying from modified sine wave inverters.....having said that, we recharged ipads / iphones / androids and a samsung tablet for 3 months without issues whilst travelling and no issues between the inverter or those devices.

Ps Alex you are correct - there's more useable energy in the average 500 w bike battery than the average 4x4 main battery - but many of us have dual batteries in our cars with a deep cycle for electrical supply whilst camping - so being able to recharge from the spare battery is promising

 

[6zfshdb]

Charging an ebike battery from a vehicle is an interesting concept but not very practical IMO. I'm not sure why you would want to do it.

Regardless of the power source, the charger for my Pedego 48V, 15 AH battery takes 5 hours to recharge when fully depleted. That is a significant portion of a day where I'd rather be riding. Wouldn't the money spent on a quality inverter be better put toward the cost of a spare ebike battery?

There have been times when I've ridden one trail in the morning and another in the afternoon where the trails are an hour's drive apart. I suppose I could recharge a battery during the drive but the best I could achieve is maybe a 15 - 20% recharge. I usually carry a spare battery for trips like this.

When camping or away from commercial power for an extended period, battery charging by vehicle may become more practical. You could leave your vehicle running overnight to charge a battery but this wouldn't be very efficient. Leaving a vehicle running unattended is never a good idea. For situations like this, wouldn't the money spent on the inverter and wasted vehicle fuel be better put toward the cost of a small portable gas generator?

 

[Alex M]

I have to confess, have a Modified Sine Wave inverter in my offgrid cabin and even run it in a car on occasion - small 150W inverter, about $25. I personally didn't have issues charging any electronics, but other people did. Laptop may go haywire, small TV will refuse to work. Even my electric shaver runs louder on MSW inverter. They are cheap, but should better be avoided.

200W Pure Sine inverter will cost from $150 but he definitely needs a second "car battery", preferably a deep cycle type, not a starter type. Or - rewire his car to make it possible to charge on the road, this includes cig socket, wires, fuse and proper mount for a battery. You don't want battery to fly off the seat when you break or turn.

The bottom-line, for somebody who is not much in DIY - it's easier to carry a spare fully charged ebike battery for such trips.

Generator is a different kind of pain. They don't like sitting unused for long periods, cheap ones can be loud (and still cost like a spare ebike battery), better ones cost thousands (and still can be heard from a distance), any spills you will smell for days, many campsites won't allow you to run a generator from 7 pm to 7 am, and this is not something you want to leave unattended. Not advocating against a generator and don't want to start a discussion on noise vs necessity - just realize what you are getting into.

 

[PDoz]

Charging an ebike battery from a vehicle is an interesting concept but not very practical IMO. I'm not sure why you would want to do it."........

When camping or away from commercial power for an extended period, battery charging by vehicle may become more practical. You could leave your vehicle running overnight to charge a battery but this wouldn't be very efficient. Leaving a vehicle running unattended is never a good idea. For situations like this, wouldn't the money spent on the inverter and wasted vehicle fuel be better put toward the cost of a small portable gas generator?

For those of us who camp away from commercial facilities, we use ( folding) solar to recharge our campers deep cycle batteries during the day +/- we have accesory batteries in the car that recharge whislt driving. It's a common set up for running luxuries like a fridge , and I'm hoping to be able to use it for recharging the bike overnight in future.

A couple of years ago I spent 3 months travelling around western australia with 3 kids , we towed a simple off road capable camper trailer and free camped in remote sites most of the time. We'd get 3 days fridge use from the 2 spare batteries, but when camping longer than that in a site I'd fold out the solar panels and we could stay as long as our water lasted ( 2 weeks max) .

We had our first camping trip with the ebike recently and I felt horribly restricted by the need to recharge. The first night was spent camping beside a river with 3 other families, the kids explored free range , we bush walked, sat around the campfire , and tackled some great mtb trails. Then we moved to a commercial campground and were squeezed into our tiny patch of grass tied to the power source, surrounded by expensive boxes on wheels with every convievable camping gadget.....it was a completely different experience! Most of the kids there never left the park ( despite being across the road from 50 km of mtb trails and having a magical beach across the dunes!) . NEVER again! If I can't recharge the ebike remotely, it will stay at home and I'll take the mebike.

 

[PDoz]

Scenario no 2 - multi day remote group ebike rides.

I have a few freinds floating this prospect and know a few people looking into the logistics of making it a commercial viability to support multi group emtb rides. The concept is use a support dual cab 4x4 to cart bikes and equipment to a basecamp , ride, recharge / relax, repeat. Meet at set destinations for lunch and recharge / relax, etc.

It makes a lot more sense to provide recharge facilities for multiple different bikes rather than hope everyone has a spare battery.

 

[6zfshdb]

Scenario no 2 - multi day remote group ebike rides.

I have a few freinds floating this prospect and know a few people looking into the logistics of making it a commercial viability to support multi group emtb rides. The concept is use a support dual cab 4x4 to cart bikes and equipment to a basecamp , ride, recharge / relax, repeat. Meet at set destinations for lunch and recharge / relax, etc.

It makes a lot more sense to provide recharge facilities for multiple different bikes rather than hope everyone has a spare battery.

I like the idea of using solar panels to charge a deep cycle battery and use that to charge the ebike. How will you handle the time factor? Depending on the size of your solar array, it would take most of the day to charge the 12V battery. It would then take several more hours to charge the ebike battery via the inverter.

 

[Jerry LM]

My Ram pickup came with a 110v ac outlet in the dash and I plug it in on the road while driving. Only works while the vehicle is running but on a trip is handy..same as plugging in at home. Our rv has outside plugs as well and our Honda generator so there is a bunch of ways to stay charged up. Our RV can also charge off the house batteries when dry camping if we don't have the gen set with us.
We camp in State Parks and Fed Parks and aren't in commercial rv parks very often unless on the road from point to point overnight. Our last spot was no more than a hundred feet from trails and miles of beach and mountain roads, so just charge at night and good to go in the morning again.....

 

[Alphbetadog]

I use a 1000w Yamaha generator to charge my ebikes while remote camping all the time. It is light, quiet, and very efficient. I can easily charge 2- 500v batteries with the 4amp chargers. Do it all the time. The Yamaha is a pure sine wave generator so it is cleaner power than what usually comes out of the public utility.

Can be purchased on Amazon for around $700, and good for many other uses as well.

 

[bob armani]

I use a 1000w Yamaha generator to charge my ebikes while remote camping all the time. It is light, quiet, and very efficient. I can easily charge 2- 500v batteries with the 4amp chargers. Do it all the time. The Yamaha is a pure sine wave generator so it is cleaner power than what usually comes out of the public utility.

Can be purchased on Amazon for around $700, and good for many other uses as well.

Alphbetadog-Looks like this is one of the most practical and easiest solutions that I have seen without running the risk of overheating or blowing fuses or whatever else could malfunction for a simple E-bike battery re-charge. I have seen these little guys run and they are ultra quiet and do not disturb anyone. I have also seen some outdoor presenters use them to power speaker columns and the unit was directly behind them and did not interfere or pickup any background noise from the unit itself. Good call!

 

[Alphbetadog]

Alphbetadog-Looks like this is one of the most practical and easiest solutions that I have seen without running the risk of overheating or blowing fuses or whatever else could malfunction for a simple E-bike battery re-charge. I have seen these little guys run and they are ultra quiet and do not disturb anyone. I have also seen some outdoor presenters use them to power speaker columns and the unit was directly behind them and did not interfere or pickup any background noise from the unit itself. Good call!

Works well and easy to use. Also, very easy to drain the fuel out of the tank, and carburetor float bowl to avoid a gunked up gas situation during long periods of non-use, which is often for a generator. After camping I just tip in over and drain the fuel in a funnel into my truck's gas tank - easy peazy.

 

[michaelwoodcock]

If you're handy enough with electronics just get a solar panel and solar charge controller and buy a plug for your ebike, plug directly into the ebike from the solar panel.

You can do a solar panel to deep cycle. If you do that I recommend isolating the deep cycle from your regular car battery so you leave your regular car battery alone but when you run the car both batteries charge.

Pure sine wave inverters are where it's at. Xantrex is where it's at. There are some programmable units you can make shut down at a low voltage of your choice. If you spend the big bucks program it so shut down at about 11.5 volts. In most cases that's enough to start your car. Experiment at home first, never in the wild!

http://www.marissamuller.com/blog/2015/6/12/my-specialized-stallion-solar-chariot

 

[Alex M]

How will you handle the time factor? Depending on the size of your solar array, it would take most of the day to charge the 12V battery. It would then take several more hours to charge the ebike battery via the inverter.

Short answer: both ebike and 12V battery will be charging from solar at the same time.

Long answer:

Yes, it would take all day to charge 12V lead acid battery from 50% to 99% because charging slows down once it's charged to 80-85%.

But your ebike battery could get fully charged because ebike battery will be stealing solar power from 12V battery. Solar will be charging 12V battery and running inverter at the same time - if there is enough charge in 12V battery, otherwise voltage under load will drop below 11 and inverter will shut down.

Solar panels are 80-90% efficient, summer day should be counted as 5 hours of "full sun", 100W solar will generate 400-450 WH a day. That is - on a good day, no heavy clouds.

As long as the 12V battery remains above 50% (to support the load) and your ebike charger is reasonable 100-140W, not 300W, you should be fine. You will need at least 90-100 AH 12V battery, and it has to be FULL at the beginning, because 150W ebike charger will drain 12V battery faster than 100W solar will generate, and the "deficit" will be taken out of 12V battery. Or get 200W solar, but at this point solar array becomes uncomfortably large for a portable setup.

Edit-PS: for easy solar check Renogy solar suitcase https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-foldable-solar-suitcase-w-voyager/. 100W solar folds in half like a folding table, solar charger is bolted under the panel. Run a pair of cables with crocodiles to 12V battery, - done. I would not buy this for myself because $3 per watt is too expensive today, you can install 2-3 times bigger array on your van for that price, if you are handy. But, if you are not, "suitcase" is the easy way in.

Inexpensive 300W Pure Sine inverter - (there could be cheaper, but Samlex is a decent quality for the price): https://www.amazon.com/Samlex-Solar-PST-300-12-Pure-Inverter/dp/B00H8N97E2

 

[PDoz]

I like the idea of using solar panels to charge a deep cycle battery and use that to charge the ebike. How will you handle the time factor? Depending on the size of your solar array, it would take most of the day to charge the 12V battery. It would then take several more hours to charge the ebike battery via the inverter.

We have 150 w folding panels that charge the deep cycle battery via a solar controller during the day. I'd expect to recharge the bike overnight. For the shed, I plug the system into a 250 w rigid panel and that powers my tools / lighting - I'm hoping to be able to move the ebike out there if I can get an answer on the safety of using the modified sine wave inverter

So long as we get 3/4 hours direct sunlight that seems sufficient to keep up with the fridge / freezer / our camping needs. I expect to need a bigger solar input to also charge the bike, and possibly looking into combining the cars 105 ah spare deep cycle with the campers so we have enough reserve to keep the fridge running after the ebike has drained the system.

 

[6zfshdb]

Short answer: both ebike and 12V battery will be charging from solar at the same time.

Long answer:

Yes, it would take all day to charge 12V lead acid battery from 50% to 99% because charging slows down once it's charged to 80-85%.

But your ebike battery could get fully charged because ebike battery will be stealing solar power from 12V battery. Solar will be charging 12V battery and running inverter at the same time - if there is enough charge in 12V battery, otherwise voltage under load will drop below 11 and inverter will shut down.

Solar panels are 80-90% efficient, summer day should be counted as 5 hours of "full sun", 100W solar will generate 400-450 WH a day. That is - on a good day, no heavy clouds.

As long as the 12V battery remains above 50% (to support the load) and your ebike charger is reasonable 100-140W, not 300W, you should be fine. You will need at least 90-100 AH 12V battery, and it has to be FULL at the beginning, because 150W ebike charger will drain 12V battery faster than 100W solar will generate, and the "deficit" will be taken out of 12V battery. Or get 200W solar, but at this point solar array becomes uncomfortably large for a portable setup.

Edit-PS: for easy solar check Renogy solar suitcase https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-foldable-solar-suitcase-w-voyager/. 100W solar folds in half like a folding table, solar charger is bolted under the panel. Run a pair of cables with crocodiles to 12V battery, - done. I would not buy this for myself because $3 per watt is too expensive today, you can install 2-3 times bigger array on your van for that price, if you are handy. But, if you are not, "suitcase" is the easy way in.

Inexpensive 300W Pure Sine inverter - (there could be cheaper, but Samlex is a decent quality for the price): https://www.amazon.com/Samlex-Solar-PST-300-12-Pure-Inverter/dp/B00H8N97E2

Good idea but it doesn't solve the time factor completely. You are still charging the ebike battery during daylight hours when you would normally be riding. It would work well though if you had a spare ebike battery.

 

[Alex M]

Oh no, this is not an "idea", this is much worse . This is how it works, you can't change it - inverter takes energy out of 12V battery, solar returns it to the same battery. Ebike battery is separated from solar because of the inverter, so it's all about the balance btw inverter "out" and solar "in".

Yes, solar only generates in daytime, after sunset you use the energy stored in 12V deep cycle battery. Adequately sized inverter is pretty much a standard part of an offgrid system, be it a solar or gasoline generator.

Another part is an adequately sized 12V battery, deep cycle type. Inverter takes 400-500 WH out of 12V battery in the night, solar returns this amount during the day. But, without a permanent solar on the van, in any populated area you should better be there or your portable solar might walk away. With a real "RV" I would forget about portables, there is enough space on the roof for a big permanent solar that could support most of your offgrid needs.

Pdoz - just buy PSW inverter for your shed. 300W Samlex costs $160 and will run any electronics. I would also get 12V lights, to avoid keeping inverter on stand-by 24 hours. It drains quite a lot of energy on standby, without any loads.

 

[Zippy49]

I use a 1000w Yamaha generator to charge my ebikes while remote camping all the time. It is light, quiet, and very efficient. I can easily charge 2- 500v batteries with the 4amp chargers. Do it all the time. The Yamaha is a pure sine wave generator so it is cleaner power than what usually comes out of the public utility.

Can be purchased on Amazon for around $700, and good for many other uses as well.

Costco had those recently for $500. I've got a Honda e2000 that produces the same power, but it cost double that!

As for solar, I have a 100W panel and controller (also from Costco). It's going on top of my 6 x 12 box trailer, which is set up to haul and work on two wheeled vehicles. Will look for a better inverter than the 15 year old piece in there now.