Canbus---- motor/parts replacement?

[TomD]

No sure I understand your chart. Are you saying in Eco 3-4 and Sport 1-3 you can only hit ~30 mph if you feather in the throttle, but if you mash throttle you can hit 50+ mph? For other PAS you can only hit ~45 mph whether you feather in or mash throttle? Or are these just readings on your display with the wheel off the ground? Or are you actually achieving these speeds? 50+ mph seems ridiculously fast unless the bike is geared super high. Maybe the magnet on the rear wheel is misaligned and messing up your speed sensor, and causing other issues?

My recollection (stock UART motor) was throttle output is independent of PAS, and speed is unrestricted (in practical terms, only limited by your gearing) so max speed should be the same for all PAS. On the CANBUS motors from Bikonit I recall seeing assist was capped at 20 mph. I assume that is for both PAS and throttle. Is your PAS capped but not throttle?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Hi Guys
Al
Thank you for explaining the operations of the Eco/Sport power settings.
I find the difference of power settings quite interesting on how much power is provided etc, only in that middle settings, 11T area, (see the chart at the end of this post).

Tom
I just got my handle bars set up with a double tier to provide enough space
for all the extra equipment I wanted on the handle bars,
I am not going to disturb this arraignment, unless absolutely needed etc.
I found out when I did the first test (hanging) I couldn't get the peddle overrun
for more than 1-2 sec.
Yet when I ride the bike the overrun is greater and can be felt/heard (engine noise) very easily, so my thoughts are to film the over run when under (peddle power) riding the bike. I am attempting to find/make a good camera holder showing the chain drive etc.
"If there is some fault in the controller, programming, or torque sensor causing the overrun it very well could manifest differently between eco and sport."

See the chart at the end of this post, you can see a very different settings of something?

GR
You are asking for the almost impossible feat,
"I say hang it upside down from a tree on a deserted road."
Finding that combinations is impossible in NV,
as around here there is very few trees around, except on private property,
but we have lots of deserted roads.......LOL

Here is the chart I was talking about,
I colored coded what I thought was very interesting to me,
look at the differences in the speeds noted and the overall pattern laid out.

Eco setting 3 thru Sport 3 settings all have roughly the same speeds,
while using the gradual thumb operation.

Yet the the speeds of the mashed throttle settings jump over 20+ mph between the above setting of E3 and S3. WHY? Anyone have a possible answer?

I wished I had charted the 13T results, to see the difference.
I may go back and do that 13T gear just to see the results.

Gear = 11T = 11T =
---------G-----M-----
Eco 1= 44.7= 44.7= 00.0 mph Dif
Eco 2= 44.7= 44.7= 00.0 mph Dif
Eco 3= 31.1= 52.0= 20.9 mph Dif
Eco 4= 30.1= 53.3= 23.2 mph Dif
Eco 5= 31.2= 53.4= 22.2 mph Dif
Spt 1= 29.3= 54.7= 25.4 mph Dif
Spt 2= 30.0= 53.1= 23.1 mph Dif
Spt 3= 29.4= 54.7= 25.3 mph Dif
Spt 4= 44.5= 44.9= 00.5 mph Dif
Spt 5= 44.5= 44.7= 00.2 mph Dif

Thank you guys,
Thoughts and suggestions
Don

Honesty Don... I don't know what it is that you are trying to achieve?

If you do have overrun and you feel it is greater when riding, then film that as you said.

The rest of this is a waste of time if you ask me and the time would be better spent actually riding and gaining experience with the motor and different settings in actual use as adding load things are going to be very different.
ymmv... especially with the bike hung from a tree

 

[AHicks]

Honesty Don... I don't know what it is that you are trying to achieve?

If you do have overrun and you feel it is greater when riding, then film that as you said.

The rest of this is a waste of time if you ask me and the time would be better spent actually riding and gaining experience with the motor and different settings in actual use as adding load things are going to be very different.
ymmv... especially with the bike hung from a tree

I'm inclined to agree. You continue to loose focus on the one issue you might have (over run) with all of this other data.

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys
Tom
I am only relaying facts/information I found while doing this test,
and wondering "why" ONLY HERE in this first "G" method in the 11T selection,
there is such a drastic speed DIFFERENCE change?.
And this drastic difference DOES NOT show up anywhere else.

Gear = 11T = 11T =
---------G-----M-----
Eco 3= 31.1= 52.0= 20.9 mph Dif
Eco 4= 30.1= 53.3= 23.2 mph Dif
Eco 5= 31.2= 53.4= 22.2 mph Dif
Spt 1= 29.3= 54.7= 25.4 mph Dif
Spt 2= 30.0= 53.1= 23.1 mph Dif
Spt 3= 29.4= 54.7= 25.3 mph Dif

It is ODD to me, (on these drastic speed figures differences) is occurring only with these 6 settings/gearing.

"Or are these just readings on your display with the wheel off the ground?"
As posted in #34 post =
After the above tests, (and hanging from limb) I used the thumb throttle only.

"Or are you actually achieving these speeds? 50+ mph seems ridiculously fast unless the bike is geared super high."
I haven't road tested to find out this speed information, YET.

" Maybe the magnet on the rear wheel is misaligned and messing up your speed sensor, and causing other issues?"
From what little info, I have found on this item, (Magnet/rear wheel),
I don't think so, as it is there and attached as received and appears to be lined up correctly etc.

"Is your PAS capped but not throttle?"
This information is unknown to me, I only know my bike is unlocked.

GR
"Honesty Don... I don't know what it is that you are trying to achieve?"
I am NOT trying to achieve ANYTHING, I was reporting on facts/information that I found, and just wondering WHY, this happened only in this limited area/selection,
that's all.
I found this info very ODD as compared to the rest of the speed readings.

"If you do have overrun and you feel it is greater when riding, then film that as you said."
I plan on doing that, as I DO have overrun, I just need to figure out a SAFE way to film it, without me getting hurt or my bike damaged etc.

"The rest of this is a waste of time if you ask me and the time would be better spent actually riding and gaining experience with the motor and different settings in actual use"
I am sorry I wasted your time, and I Will be spending MORE TIME riding and gaining experience with the motor/different settings, when I can get get some decent weather, with the winds NOT blowing 15-20mph every day, and hopefully I don't end up walking 10+ miles back home because the bike let me down, as at this point in time I don't trust it

"as adding load things are going to be very different".
I don't understand what you mean by this statement?

"ymmv... especially with the bike hung from a tree "
It would be better that the bike was hung from the tree,
instead of me...LOL

Al
"I'm inclined to agree. You continue to loose focus on the one issue you might have (over run) with all of this other data."

I am not loosing focus, I was VERY CURIOUS as to the WHY of the drastic speed readings I found and thought that maybe posting that information MIGHT provide some more information, as to why I have this OVERRUN problem etc.

As posted above, I will film/post this over run problem, I found when I find a safe way to do it.
I don't have the experience with this bike that all you others have.

Thank you all,
Don

 

[AHicks]

Agree here too.

"I don't have the experience with this bike that all you others have."

One way to change that would be to stop asking questions long enough to go for a few rides. You just may be able to answer some of your questions on your own that way.

 

[greeno]

Hey Don send me a PM and I will give you my PH# and I can give you some help in figuring out what you got there. Thes guys are trying to help you but something is getting lost as far as application. FWIW Canbus is Canbus... your stuck with what the programming is. Understanding it is another matter. Even if it's a stock Bafang program knowing what it is will help you understand how the best to use the bike for your application.
Hit me up I will give you a hand.

 

[rtp]

Tried to read the full thread. Don, I think you're getting things confused, or seems that way.
Unloaded - meaning bike wheel off the ground, sure - you can see speeds of 50mph+ - not relevant. The few MPH difference in your various charts = also not relevant IMO.

The 1-2 second overrun - is typical of Bafang programming on the Ultra and still there but possibly to a lesser extent - the M600 as well.
I haven't seen anything to indicate 'something wrong' in context of how Bafang CANBUS Ultras, or even UART Ultras with Bafang OEM configurations - apply. (other than well - the default programming is not ideal and overruns..)

See @JRA 's comments in the Z1 thread and 'smooth programming' thread - there is overrun (stop pedaling or applying pressure = motor keeps giving power) in Bafang Ultra and M600 OEM programming. It can't be corrected on a CANBUS motor short of some future firmware update, which would require the BESST tool or sending the motor off to a dealer - if and when Bafang were to provide a 'better behaved' firmware for the Ultra/M620. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on better firmware from Bafang - it could happen, but they also go a year+ without seeing new firmware.

The 'cure' for it, on your bike (vs starting over) is either - learn to live with it (meh), replacement controller from Innotrace, or replace the motor and sensors, cables, display with an M620/Ultra UART set of parts, then program it yourself. One other of note is if your bike has brake cutoffs, you should be able to adjust the cutoff if need be, and grab the brake lever to stop the overrun. Whether or not your bike has e-brake cutoffs, or if that solution works for you - dunno. I believe Innotrace has a working controller for CAN M620 motors, but supply chain impact, along with being forced to buy from WattWagons in the US as their US distributor - who doesn't even list parts on their site currently, so I would not expect this to be an option <sometime soon>. I think at least a couple of people have provided the parts list needed for a UART Ultra 'conversion' - motor including controller, harness/cables, display, gear sensor and possibly the speed sensor. You can't AFAIK use a 'UART controller' with a CANBUS motor, so it's kind of all or nothing there.

Greenbikekit lets you choose Ultra as CAN or UART but seems out of stock for UART, and the 'kit' has an extra bracket you don't need but most of the bits. It may be worth reaching out to them to ask if they have any more UART motors inbound, and to work out any 'other misc parts' to convert:

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V -Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

Bafang Ultra Motor M620 /G510 kit 1000W 48V 52V. If you are looking for high power motor for your ebike, the Bafang Ultra motor is suitable for you.

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[Nvreloader]

Thank you RPT,
I have a new Uart motor and parts to install on my WH,
should make a lot better off road hunting bike,
then I'll attempt programing for what I want to use for off road and on cow trails etc..
Tia,
Don