Canadian Winter Ready Comfort Commuter - Research Stalemate

[ROCebike]

The folding Pedego Latch should be on your list. The battery holder protects the connectors. There's also some marine grade gel that boaters on salt water use to protect battery posts and cables. I'd consider using this on the motor exterior due to road salt, even dry salted roads kick up some dust.

Costco sells a nylon cartop luggage carrier from Samsonite. It's the perfect size for this bike and when zipped closed would make it very discreet when parked in your retail workplace.

I'd be pretty confident that Pedego batteries will be around for many years if replacement is concerned.

 

[Amanda]

I keep coming back to the Rad City but with despair. if only it was sidewalk legal with 500w output.

My sad self would like to know if there's absolutely no way to meet my province's legal requirements with the stock equipment. Can I not cap wattage in a menu's settings? maybe? Over than it's wattage it's perfect for me. but I am scared of street travel and don't have the license

@rad power

 

[ROCebike]

If the bike is perfect for you then get it. There are too many criteria (and models) to factor into a 100% decision. So when you are 80 % confident in a model, go for it. However do take a test drive if at all possible. It can be a deal breaker if the bike just doesn't handle well for you. Btw, didn't you want step thru?

Re legal compliance, while this can be a concern, what is the realistic probability that the cops will investigate your bike? If you are riding in such a way as to draw attention. Or in unsafe riding, then they may pull you over for a chat. If they even know the wattage limit, are they really going to write a ticket? Then will they even go to court when you plead not guilty? It has to be a really mean spirited cop with nothing else to do who gives you a ticket.

Of course you will argue that it's still a bicycle and you normally ride without the motor. Or that in peddle assist 20%, it's still 100 watts and below the max limit.

Obey the rules of the road. Don't be a hazard to people or traffic and you'll be fine. Buy the bike, revel in the freedom and fun it brings. Smile at the closet rebel you've become.

If your still concerned look for a model that is even more stealthy in design. Such as battery integrated in down tube with mid drive motor. Or rear hub motor with diameter smaller than gear cluster.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

 

[ROCebike]

If the bike is perfect for you then get it. There are too many criteria (and models) to factor into a 100% decision. So when you are 80 % confident in a model, go for it. However do take a test drive if at all possible. It can be a deal breaker if the bike just doesn't handle well for you. Btw, didn't you want step thru?

Re legal compliance, while this can be a concern, what is the realistic probability that the cops will investigate your bike? If you are riding in such a way as to draw attention. Or in unsafe riding, then they may pull you over for a chat. If they even know the wattage limit, are they really going to write a ticket? Then will they even go to court when you plead not guilty? It has to be a really mean spirited cop with nothing else to do who gives you a ticket.

Of course you will argue that it's still a bicycle and you normally ride without the motor. Or that in peddle assist 20%, it's still 100 watts and below the max limit.

Obey the rules of the road. Don't be a hazard to people or traffic and you'll be fine. Buy the bike, revel in the freedom and fun it brings. Smile at the closet rebel you've become.

If your still concerned look for a model that is even more stealthy in design. Such as battery integrated in down tube with mid drive motor. Or rear hub motor with diameter smaller than gear cluster.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

PS. Depending where you live, even regular bikes are illegal on sidewalks anyway. Bikes are vehicles first.

 

[Amanda]

Bicycles on sidewalks are technically legal because my city allows them within. The bylaws are specific about bikes because as my research has been showing me, my province Ontario has highly regulated them.

I'm panicking a little because there's a video I should never have watched with an OPP officer arresting an ebike rider who was following the rules and wanted an explanation as to why the cop was asking for Id. Cop broke like, five statutes of the charter because an bike must be a bad person's ride or some silliness.

While I am lucky enough to have quite the stretch of bike lanes locally, I'm not sure I trust the grey area of being on a street but not street legal without license and insurance.

How am I going to even find insurance in Canada for an while with or without a license? I have additional medical at work, but vehicle insurance?

Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[Amanda]

Btw, didn't you want step thru?

I did, and perfect might not be the right word without that, BUT the mid step is still an improvement over the high bar my current bike has.

I don't think I'm gonna luck out and be find a convenient opportunity to test ride the radcity. They don't use dealers to sell. A few of the companies I've got favourite picks from are the same which is a bit concerning for service and repair after, although I have a couple of great bike shops locally for bike component issues.

 

[ROCebike]

In NYS ebikes are technically illegal because there is no classification for them to fall under. At the federal level they are classed as bicycles and consequently legal products to sell and own. Some states are writing classifications to eliminate this grey area and contradiction. Most recent being California and three tier classes.

However NYC police created a citywide ban presumably as a result of too many ebik s colliding with pedestrians on sidewalks. The cops there just wanted to eliminate the nuisance calls to investigate these accidents. Perhaps this attitude influenced your cop video.

In your case, I suspect you have two options. Register your 500 watt bike as a moped and get moped insurance. This probably means a specific moped/motorcycle license for you, maybe not. Best to check with Ontario MOT. The second option is to buy an ebike already compliant in Ontario. A 250 watt motor can still be sufficient for a 5km commute on relatively flat roads. Have you test ridden any?

Have you consulted with an ebike retailer in Ontario? They will tell you your options as well. I know there are dedicated ebike shops in TO, Oakville and Ottawa. Good luck.

 

[ROCebike]

Reaching out to Ravi since he lived in Waterloo Ont. Maybe now thinking of moving back

@Ravi Kempaiah can you offer this Canadian some guidance on ebikes compliant with Ontario laws? Seems she is best served with low wattage step through and moderate width tires.

Thanks

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Reaching out to Ravi since he lived in Waterloo Ont. Maybe now thinking of moving back

@Ravi Kempaiah can you offer this Canadian some guidance on ebikes compliant with Ontario laws? Seems she is best served with low wattage step through and moderate width tires.

Thanks

Thanks @ROCebike. Indeed, I am seriously contemplating on moving back

@Amanda , having lived in Ontario for 2 years, I applaud your intention to commute on an E-bike.

Voltbike or Rad mini could be a good choice if you're on budget. They have decent componentry and QC could be a hit/miss.
Some of the Bosch bikes like Haibike Fat Six in 40cm or Felt Outfitter would be a much better choice. I know it can be very tricky to ride on snow and 4" tires would really help. The reason I am recommending this is they are very durable. They are lighter, you could add racks etc and the battery can be removed in seconds.

Amego EV is the largest E-bike store in Toronto and that would be a great place to explore what works best for you. They have a wide variety of E-bikes and I would be happy to connect you with the owner Virginia. They should be able help you with the selection and pricing.

I also recommend you get Neoprene battery cover for any bike (keeps it warm when the temp goes below 0'F), Bar mitts for keeping your hands toasty ( two layers of gloves if you must use gloves).

Another great option would be get a OHm fat tire bike. I know they have a end of season sale and I am sure @Daniel@OHMCycles would be happy to work with you to get a 2016 closeout model. Their urban model is an excellent one. Because OHM and BionX are Canadian, working with them would be lot easier.

Good luck

 

[Alex M]

A close third placer is the EG Athens.

I think cdn sidewalk usage needs no more than 350w and 30 km Max speed.

Adult bikes are illegal on sidewalks, no matter with or without motor. $60 fine in the city of Toronto. It could be that your municipality is different, I don't know.

As to the EG Athens - I understand the temptation, it's cheaper than newer EG Maui 500, and you don't need more powerful motor of Maui, but... 2 things make it inferior to Maui:
1) Battery on the rear rack. This is bad, bad.
2) Smaller battery than Maui - in your intended use, with near-freezing temps, you want as much battery capacity as possible, because the capacity will drop when it's cold.

As to the warranty, replacement parts, performance - don't overthink this. Just make sure tires are wide enough for winter. Performance in your case - short trips - is a non-issue.

 

[Alex M]

Folding bikes - you don't want a folder if you don't need the foldability. They are either heavier per same size and features, or have smaller diameter wheels. Besides, most of them are not step-through (small wheels bring top tube lower, but still higher than a real step-through).

 

[Taipan]

Hello Amanda,

I'm new to the e-bike landscape, not so to electrical 18650 Li-On batteries and electrical cars (Tesla), but I can relate to the winter conditions as I've spent several ones in Stockholm/Sweden and before that in the Alsace-Lorraine region of eastern France (if you've read about the freezing Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes in WWII, that region is even colder, like regular -20°F/-30°C without wind-factor ;-)
Winter Bonus: I spent a year as an exchange student at Concordia U. in Montreal/Canada back in the 90's :-D

1. If your work commute is only 5 km, do not worry -really- at the impact of cold temperature on the battery as long as you don't leave it outside with the bike (not recommended due to theft too).
Even at a slow 10 km/h average (that's super slow), those 30 mins of exposure will barely have time to reach the core of the battery.

2. Whatever e-bike technology you choose (mid-engine or rear-hub) or battery range (300wh, 400wh, 500wh etc.), the most important factor for comfort and safety will be the winter tires.
All the rest will be secondary to those winter tires, period.

So it may sound counter-intuitive but -because your are facing serious winter conditions- you should build your bike choice starting from the winter tires: what size/width in full studded versions (min 200 spikes, up to 400 spikes) are available at a reasonable price ?
You will quickly find out that this ejects a bunch of bikes because of their rim/fork maximum tire size allowed.

If you need a reference for a serious winter tire, go for "Schwalbe Marathon Winter" which comes with 4 ranges of spikes (200-240 total) and reinforced side walls for puncture protection, road/trekking design.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Stay away from the cheaper version Schwalbe Winter (not Marathon) as it comes with 2 ranges of spikes in the center only: you'll crash if you angle too much in a turn.
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/spike-reader/winter.html

If you want to go uber-safe, get the "Schwalbe Ice Spiker" with 400 spikes but that comes in very wide size only and super-expensive, mountain-bike design.
Also durability on tarmac is not as good as the Marathon Winter.
But more reliable in fresh snow covers (up to 10cm, after that you need fat-tires or simple patience for the snow-truck to even the road ^!^) or melting slush in the spring: nothing more treacherous that those packs of melted snow mixed with water.
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/spike-reader/ice-spiker-pro.html

A cheaper but very efficient option is the Continental Spike Claw 240 (not 120), mountain-bike design. Puncture-resist not as good as Schwalbe in theory, but in practice probably same.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

HTH

T.

 

[Amanda]

Thanks for the tire knowledge! half the year I might need those studs.

I've been emailing some of the manufacturers who sell direct, including Volton (alation), E-Joe (gadis) and Magnum (ui5).

Noticing lighter weight geared but brush less motors and different options on battery voltage (Volton made a very nice offer for a 350w system on 48v batteries as well as a 500w on 48v)

I also emailed local authorities about road usage versus path and sidewalks. it shouldn't as much of an issue if I stay under limits and I'm careful. Drivers scare me as much as police do.

I have to decide if a bike with proprietary battery is wise, but many options within my budget have them! And for a first purchase I want to make a good decision. this is, in a weird sense, my first 'car'.

I was discussing the volton alation colours with a coworker and everyone seems to like the purple despite my alliance on going for stealthy black or race car red (more visible)

They of course think I'm kind of nuts until I point out my reasons. lol.

 

[Amanda]

the most important factor for comfort and safety will be the winter tires.

HTH

T.

I have not been able to find tires for use on the 20mm Alex rims from the volton.

The three over bikes I'm lurking over are the Gadis from ejoe and the ui5 from magnum. The last is the rook from surface604.

I've got a surface dealer in my town and will call tomorrow about potential to test ride however I'm not sure if they have the rook in store.

But how does someone figure out what size rims these companies are using?

 

[Taipan]

Hello Amanda,

Sorry I can't help you with the rim sizes, I guess only the manufacturer can answer that question 100%.

I was thinking about your quest ;-) while riding on a hardened-snow bike path yesterday and a few points came up.

1. Riding on hard-snow paths is usually quite bumpy, some sections can be as uncomfortable as riding on a path of hard-dried mud in the countryside with the bike shaking all over the place.
So best to save some budget for a good suspended seatpost like the Suntour SP12-NCX, good value for money (approx 70$).
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

It will replace your factory-version easily, make sure you pickup the right diameter 27.2mm or 31.6mm.
Here's an nice video test where you can see both the road and the seatpost in action:

And again, get wide tires (doesn't have to be fat tires though), at least 42mm wide, 47mm is neat. And run them at lowest pressure allowed for better grip and comfort.

2. You seem to consider some online vendors instead of buying to a major brand from your LBS (Local Bike Shop ?) reseller.
A word of caution: check with your LBS first how cooperative it is with supporting ebikes bought online.
Some can be brutal with customers who bought online ...

Of course, this may be a side-issue if you are used to maintain and tune your bike already.
Acid Test: can you change your chain by yourself (which includes a specific tool) ?
Yes: you are good to fly solo
No: your LBS is your trusted mate

3. Since your commute is so short (5km), do you really need a large battery ?
BH Easy Motion (big brand, lots of resellers, maybe one next to you) has a range of bikes with small batteries fitting right below the seat, the Easy Go.
Easy to remove the battery and fit in your bag/drawer, plus the connection being under the saddle, it's more protected from rain/snow than on a frame.
Here's a review from 2016 Easy Go Street:
https://electricbikereview.com/easy-motion/easygo-street/

But the neat part is that they revamped the serie for the 2017 collection so it should be way cheaper (1199$ vs 1699$) and maybe a larger battery capacity (250Wh vs 210Wh).
Court interviewed them at Interbike a month ago, check the sequence at 5:30min to 8:00 for price and battery position.

HTH

T.

 

[Amanda]

Thinking aloud here, feel free to chime in.

Surface 604 Rook:

Pros:
Local dealer.
Torque sensing system
Stealthy hub motor should last a long time because gearless and direct drive.
Full fenders, rack, and wired in lights
48v,

Cons:
White colour not exciting, alternative blue underwhelming.
Direct drive motor should have cogging if I had to bike without power.
Battery not so stealth by design. Really wish it was at least colour matched.

??? - Winter wheels available?

Volton Alation 500:

Pros:
Integrated stealth battery
Stealth motor, but geared and without cogging
Front light wired in.
Pretty colour choices

Cons:
Rear Rack extra
No local dealer
Don't think narrow rims can accommodate any winter tire option.

 

[Amanda]

Hello Amanda,

3. Since your commute is so short (5km), do you really need a large battery ?
BH Easy Motion (big brand, lots of resellers, maybe one next to you) has a range of bikes with small batteries fitting right below the seat, the Easy Go.
Easy to remove the battery and fit in your bag/drawer, plus the connection being under the saddle, it's more protected from rain/snow than on a frame.
Here's a review from 2016 Easy Go Street:
https://electricbikereview.com/easy-motion/easygo-street/

HTH

T.

I've looked seriously at the Easy Go Street several times. I keep coming back to future proofing myself, and getting the Max electronics wise for my buck. I think it fell off the radar when I decided the currency conversion was too painful.

If I'm now willing to pay 1899-2199 maybe it should return to my list!

It is an excellent third for my list and almost a perfect competitor for the rook as another torque sensing system.

 

[Taipan]

If you know the current tire size on the bikes you buy, you don't need to figure out the rim's width to replace them: just buy the same size.
With only one caveat for winter tires: the limitation will not come from rim size but from the fenders/mudguards being too close to the tire, maybe ;-)
Although clean winter tires of identical size will fit in on installation, you need a bit more clearance from fenders because the tires will fill up with pieces of snow and gravel here and there.


The two bikes you listed (Rook and Alation) have factory-tires of 26"*2.1"and 26"*2.0".

The Schwalbe Marathon Winter comes in two 26" size: 1.75" (47mm in ETRO standard) and 2.0"(50mm), not a massive difference.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
The 1.75" is very popular over here, according to my LBS, and most likely fit both bikes.

 

[Amanda]

I finally rode an bike today!

I started at Gears on Lake shore in my hometown on an Easy Motion Evo Street. I really liked the torque sensor, and hated the throttle being on level 0 only. It took some getting used to as I needed to lower the PAS before moving from standstill at a stop sign, as it was too zippy (what a problem lol) and made the steering control iffy. My test had a 76% battery and only lasted about 15minutes. Being on a side street was terrifying, I will definitely appreciate bike lanes in my own neighborhood. It got up to speed quickly and I liked the foot feel of the power whenever I tried to get the torque sensor to work harder by applying more force in pedalling.

I hem decided to check out my local surface dealer, Bike Zone They had a PAS Raleigh detour Ie. I liked the reach on he size I tested, but could've used a seat post adjustment which this shop didn't do.

Gears did a quick check and adjustment of the bike I tested, and even checked my seat. They showed me how the quick adjustments worked too.

Anyways, no big deal, the PAS without throttle wasn't as zippy but I wasn't able to go far on my test ride either. it didn't feel as powerful, but I also didn't notice much rear heaviness like I expected either. I imagine that would change when she was loaded up.

They can order in the rook for me, at he same prize I can which I suppose is fair. my understanding is they don't have much experience with surface despite being a dealer which is a bit worrisome.

Conclusions: While I liked the 500w ride at gears, plus their thoughtfulness, I am not sure that will translate to the 250w Street from easy go. They have one on it's way to the shop, so maybe I'll return to test. $1999 cdn is painful, matching scooteretti.com sale price. That's the reality apparently due to import difference which sounds a bit fishy.

The rook is a better deal, but both are beginning to breech my Max budget. yikes.

It was good to try them, no regrets there. I'm wondering if I should order online and see if that works out cheaper.

 

[Amanda]

Just a quick question (or two)

Evo Street seems to say 30 nm at 500w

Rook has 65 nm.

Rook Has more oomph? @surface604 #surface604

Also, am I going to be disappointed buying now instead of waiting until black Friday in the event there's someone having a sale? odds good or bad?