California eBike Battery, one year warranty

[tomjasz]

Doug and Cali eBikes has a one year warranty!
https://california-ebike.com/product-category/batteries/

Now offering budget batteries built for California eBike by EM3ev.

Need Bafang parts? Doug has them all.

Kits to convert your BBS02 to 120MM, now no special tools needed. $200.

Great deals on packages as well. An adult owned company, selling what they ride.

 

[tomjasz]

Generic batteries have performed well. Now have a USA warranty center. Iron clad warranty.

 

[tomjasz]

hi friend, batteries can't without chargers, i am Xavier Wang, if possible, please add my skype: xavier.9034

I’m sorry, what does this mean? “Batteries can’t without chargers”

 

[rich c]

Generic batteries have performed well. Now have a USA warranty center. Iron clad warranty.

Not covered under this warranty:

1. Damage, failure and/or loss caused by refitting, neglect, improper maintenance, accident, misuse, abuse or use for competition or commercial purpose;
2. Damage, failure and/or loss due to shipping;
3. Damage, failure and/or loss caused by improper installation, adjustment or repairing.
4. Damage, failure and/or loss caused by unauthorized service or installation；
5. Damage, failure or loss caused by normal wear and tear.

How do you use the battery and not have normal wear and tear? To me that means you do not have a warranty! Where do you get authorized installation, since unauthorized installation voids the warranty? That warranty is a JOKE!

 

[harryS]

If Thomas will vouch for California Ebikes, I'll take his word. Wish they sold the old Dolphin style. Those Hailong cases are known for falling off and loose contacts, are they not?

 

[tomjasz]

If Thomas will vouch for California Ebikes, I'll take his word. Wish they sold the old Dolphin style. Those Hailong cases are known for falling off and loose contacts, are they not?

Doug has replaced batteries under the warranty. There need to be some terms. Some customers try to do things beyond their skill level. No one will warranty bad decisions. If you look at what others have done, they send parts and expect owner to repair. A very common occurrence. Some don't even HAVE ANY WARRANTY posted. These are standard terms. Most issues will come up in the first few months. I'm sorry someone has to make a crass comment and quick judgment on a business they've not dealt with. Ask Cali eBike customers. They come back. I first met Doug nearly 4 years ago. I bought a very lightly used battery. It had just a few miles of use. We found that it was very weak and we barely got 10 miles out of a charge. I called, and Doug replaced with a new battery. no questions asked. That's how we met and I started to do customer service and support.

We could order the Dolphin style for you. I can say with absolute confidence that Doug stands behind what he sells. We have several choices of cells. Recently I like the LG cells comparable to the GA series. But I think they, the LG, will have a longer cycle life.

 

[tomjasz]

That warranty is a JOKE!

That warranty is a JOKE!

Your bike, please point out the differences other than an additional year. I we charge you their replacement battery price. $805 delivered and $200 over our price for 400watts, we could provide a two year warranty. Happily.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)


EXCLUSIONS
THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR, SHIPPING DAMAGE, ALTERATIONS, MODIFICATIONS, MISUSE, NEGLECT OR ABUSE. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE ELECTRIC BICYCLE FOR RENTAL OR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES, STUNT RIDING OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS OR TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF PRODUCTS ARE SOLD BY A NON-AUTHORIZED RESELLER. CURRIE MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE LIMITED IN DURATION TO THAT OF THE EXPRESS WARRANTIES STATED ABOVE.
Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.

 

[rich c]

I wouldn't have to discuss anything about unauthorized installation on my Haibike, nor improper installation, nor loss due to shipping since I would buy it from the dealer where I bought my bike. Does the buyer have to submit the application to California eBike Battery before purchase so they can get authorization for that installation? If not, I just don't feel like you can call it an iron clad warranty when the seller can dispute just about any claim the user makes. All the seller has to say is, "you didn't have an authorized installation, I can't provide a warranty."

 

[tomjasz]

I’m sorry you don’t see the parallels between warranties. Reading them it’s clear. I can proudly say every claim within one year has been honored. The prices are good, and we have many happy customers. I’m not quite clear on why a non customer feels the need to be confrontational. But then its the internet. If i can ever be of assistance don’t hesitate to ask.
All the best.

 

[tomjasz]

I mean that batteries are like lovers, good partners, close relationship

Xavier,

Thank you. So true!

Tom

 

[rich c]

I’m sorry you don’t see the parallels between warranties. Reading them it’s clear. I can proudly say every claim within one year has been honored. The prices are good, and we have many happy customers. I’m not quite clear on why a non customer feels the need to be confrontational. But then its the internet. If i can ever be of assistance don’t hesitate to ask.
All the best.

I regret that you don't see the contradiction between using a marketing term like "an iron clad warranty" and then placing simple rules like "unauthorized installation" or terms widely open to interpretation like "normal wear and tear". You don't use measurable terms like guaranteed number of charge cycles. Iron clad is a term based on early American naval vessels where NOTHING could penetrate. I agree that my Bosch batteries carry the normal wear and tear clause, but as you mentioned, for 2 years. I do have a bias against generic Chinese battery cells, and I could imagine the normal wear and tear clause being easily used. From what I read on Alibaba descriptions, many generic cell packs are warrantied for very low numbers of charge cycles. Congratulations that every warranty claim for 1 year has been approved. My problem is with the marketing, I have no ill feelings towards this adult owned company nor it's product and wish them well.

 

[harryS]

Thomas, I thought I might have been overly critical of the blade contacts on the Hailong mount, but I see Cali-ebikes is selling conversion kits that change them to pins.

Dolphins are ugly, but tough. I've dropped one at 20 mph onto asphalt (from pannier bag, not in cradle) and it survived.

Thomas, maybe you can PM me with a price on a 48V 12AH Dolphin, 13S-4P. No rush. Future project.

 

[Dewey]

I can say with absolute confidence that Doug stands behind what he sells.

I second that, I bought a 2015 built BBS01 motor from California ebike and have needed to replace the controller twice with the older version A that Doug kept in stock. Bafang made the decision to change the design to version B in April 2016 without telling any of their resellers. My motor still works because Doug took the precaution to keep a stock of these controllers for his customers.

 

[tomjasz]

Thomas, I thought I might have been overly critical of the blade contacts on the Hailong mount, but I see Cali-ebikes is selling conversion kits that change them to pins.

Dolphins are ugly, but tough. I've dropped one at 20 mph onto asphalt (from pannier bag, not in cradle) and it survived.

Thomas, maybe you can PM me with a price on a 48V 12AH Dolphin, 13S-4P. No rush. Future project.

Dolphin?

 

[tomjasz]

You don't use measurable terms like guaranteed number of charge cycles. Iron clad is a term based on early American naval vessels where NOTHING could penetrate. I agree that my Bosch batteries carry the normal wear and tear clause, but as you mentioned, for 2 years. I do have a bias against generic Chinese battery cells, and I could imagine the normal wear and tear clause being easily used. From what I read on Alibaba descriptions, many generic cell packs are warrantied for very low numbers of charge cycles. Congratulations that every warranty claim for 1 year has been approved. My problem is with the marketing, I have no ill feelings towards this adult owned company nor it's product and wish them well.

Again, it's no different in terms when compared to the battery you are happy with.
How do you prove cycles?
Very few systems track cycles. BTW what constitutes a cycle?
Reading warrantees from the cell makers you'll find those numbers largely hopes and dreams. Have you ever used a generic cell?
Do you know that some of the best cells available are Chinese? Or are you simply running with rumor and innuendo? The GA cells are Chinese. It's not country of manufacture that matters, it's manufacturer and quality control. Many eBike frames, and good bikes are "generic" if you search Aliexpess and their Alibaba site.
Rafe at Cali eBike and his 30lb, 30mile, and 30MPH bike has sold generics for several years now. With great success. Would I use them for a high AMP motor? Probably not, but for the low power demands, low controller amperage demand, of the bikes you choose, no problem. I have a small fleet of batteries, EM3ev, Luna, UPP, California eBike, and Lectric cycle. In addition to my own shop and welder. I apologize if this seems arrogant but I'm afraid I have far more experience and have had scores of batteries opened up and examined them. If you're not comfortable don't buy them. They are actually a very small part of any resellers sales except for the mentioned. Enough niggling semantics for me...
Again, if I can be of any assistance please don't hesitate. It's good to have these discussions. Even when the parties can't quite agree.

All the best,

Tom

 

[rich c]

I've told you my complaint is your use of the wording of an "iron clad warranty" in your second post; "Generic batteries have performed well. Now have a USA warranty center. Iron clad warranty". Iron clad implies full warranty with no disclaimers. No seller has ever claimed an iron clad warranty in their sales literature, except you. From what I understand, Haibike can download the entire history of my batteries. As far as the generic cells, I just said I have a bias against them. But it doesn't take a lot of research to find people that have tested them and found them dramatically short of the ratings printed on the battery cover.

https://lightsngear.com/fake-lithium-battery-capacities/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Capacity-Test-of-Fake-18650/

Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning
Hey everyone,

Just thought I would pass this along to any new people to the board. About a year ago I bought some Ultrafire 3000mah 18650's off ebay for about $3 ea shipped. They turned out to be about 2250mah but for the price I didn't complain too much. So about 6 weeks ago I ordered some more

some protected and some not, 2 separate sellers on Ebay. I got out my Imax B6 charger and did some discharge tests at 1A and1400mah was the best. A couple where dead and some came in at about 70... yes 70mah. I opened them up and this is what I found. NONE of them match!

Clearly recycled, old spot welds where ground off. The unprotected batteries where not even 18650's

 

[Rick Speicher]

If Thomas will vouch for California Ebikes, I'll take his word.

I'll second that!

 

[tomjasz]

Ultrafire are not Generic. Doug does not sell recycled batteries. Just quality batteries from a good Chinese maker and all new. 1 year warranty.
Recently a new warranty was put in place due to abuse. One example. Customer was provided a second battery, NO CHARGE, none was returned and a charge back was made against the store. For a small LLC eating $1000 really hurts. I'm saddened that some don't realize that there are people out there that go the extra miles, but there are also sharks out there that abuse the support. DIY kits are especially difficult. Builders with the same limited knowledge displayed here occasionally go straight to being "ripped off". More often than not it ends up being a niggling detail overlooked or a direction not being followed. We ALWAYS take responsibility and work to sort out the problem to keep happy customers. I'm willing to always and at any time share anything I have or know. But must apologize, because I don't mean to be snarky. It's difficult when examples are used that are completely off base and demonstrate a poor understanding coupled with a superior attitude. Arguing semantics is a hopeless waste of time.

One reason some forums, do not allow comments on vendor threads offering sales and service.

 

[Rick Speicher]

I totally avoid Ultrafire. Mostly because I don't want an ultra fire in my house! They buy the cells top quality makers cull for poor performance and rewrap them with their logo. If you buy Ultrafire, you're asking for trouble. I build and repair batteries and I always buy from a know, reputable source. I know Doug and Tom are of the same mind, and if they buy generic cells from China they have been tested and up to snuff. And if they say 'iron clad warranty', you bet your bottom dollar that's exactly what they mean. All the small print is to protect them from the people out there that abuse this sort of warranty. I would not hesitate buying a battery from California Ebikes. Just my $.02

 

[Glenn ID10t]

I hope the information on this thread is current. I've emailed the contact supplied by Thomas Jaszewski. If it's not...I'll update this post.