Bulls Lacuba Evo 10 Diamond vs Specialized Vado 5?

[rj cedar]

I am in Canada, looking for a top quality, QUIET RUNNING e bike, so one with the Brose S Mag motor, which is quieter than the comparable Bosh CX gen 4 motor.

So far I came up with these 2 bikes from Bulls and Specialized. Are there other manufacturers that put a Brose S Mag motor into their bikes?

Now trying to decide between these 2 Brose S Mag motor bikes. Between these 2, can anyone please comment on these questions?:
- which has the smoothest power delivery program? Many have commented on the smooth power delivery program on the Specialized Vado. What about the Bulls Lacuba Evo 10 Diamond?
- which has the quietest freewheel. When not peddling, you do get quite a pronounced "can of bees" sound on the Specialized Vado. Does the Lacuba do the same? I understand Shimano makes the quietest hubs.....but is there a manufacturer that has put a similar bike together?

The other concern between these 2 is rider posture. See the picture below comparing the 2 bikes. The bulls is more upright, but on the Vado, in these forums I have read that one can extend the Vado steering tube up to a max of 3". So if that works rider position differences between these 2 bikes might not be an issue. I ride with a 60 degree back position from horizontal, dont need straight up.

The bulls has a few advantages, like the air fork with more travel (63mm air vs 50mm spring fork) , and a 150 more AH on the battery (750 vs 600), but no MISSION CONTROLL app that Specialized has. Bulls weight is 56 lbs, Specialized does not say, anyone know?

Thank you,
RJ

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Motor is not the only source of the noise.

Drivetrain - chain/cassette/derailleur could also make substantial noise. You should try a bike with a Gates belt drive to really feel the difference.

 

[TOOSLOW]

No one makes a quieter hub than Onyx, period, totally silent.
And there is no substitute for battery sizing, the more capacity, the better.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Motor is not the only source of the noise.

Drivetrain - chain/cassette/derailleur could also make substantial noise. You should try a bike with a Gates belt drive to really feel the difference.

Ravi: My Vado is totally silent save a delicate whirr from the freewheel when not pedalling. Demo ride a Vado 4.0 once What can create any noise is tyres.

@rj cedar: Only Specialized Levo is equipped with Brose S Mag (Specialized 2.1). If you are thinking of Vado 5.0 or Como 5.0, these are fitted with Brose S Alu (Specialized 1.3). While very quiet, neither version of Brose S is totally silent. Specialized 1.2 (Brose T) is totally silent, and it is found, e.g., on Vado 4.0.

Bulls vs. Specialized? Tough choice. I'm impressed with some features of Bulls Bikes, especially large batteries. However, the greatest feature of Specialized Vado/Como e-bikes is their electronics. Bear in mind, Brose leaves the matter of electronics to the OEM. Specialized have been able to create one of the best e-bike electronics in the world, giving you total control over your e-bike performance and enabling you to retrieve all possible bike, rider and ride information from the bike (combined with smartphone/sports wearable information). Mission Control is just a tip of the iceberg; an inexpensive BLEvo app lets you totally control your Vado/Como/Levo/Kenevo/Vado SL/Creo SL and retrieve up to 51 parameters post-ride, combined with Strava export -- and GPS navigation during the ride. No other brand offers such capabilities!

Once, my Vado was equipped with an obsolete (now) BLOKS display. I felt miserable at that time: I could not tune my Vado, and I was not getting vital information from the bike, even such prosaic as the number of battery charge cycles! After conversion to the new TCD-W display, I could control everything. For instance, I found ways how to significantly extend my battery range. Or, I could use Mission Control to ensure I would cover a planned long distance on a single battery.

However good Bulls Lacuba is, it won't have the same level of electronics as Specialized (Bulls Bikes are still using some version of BLOKS display).

Now: The ride comfort. If that's vital for you, get yourself a Como 5.0. You would be delighted, I promise. Or, indeed raise the handlebars in a Vado 5.0.

Freewheel whirr? It is very soft on Specialized Vado/Como and only audible when you're not pedalling.

P.S. BLEvo advantages post

 

[rj cedar]

Ravi: My Vado is totally silent save a delicate whirr from the freewheel when not pedalling. Demo ride a Vado 4.0 once What can create any noise is tyres.

@rj cedar: Only Specialized Levo is equipped with Brose S Mag (Specialized 2.1). If you are thinking of Vado 5.0 or Como 5.0, these are fitted with Brose S Alu (Specialized 1.3). While very quiet, neither version of Brose S is totally silent. Specialized 1.2 (Brose T) is totally silent, and it is found, e.g., on Vado 4.0.

Bulls vs. Specialized? Tough choice. I'm impressed with some features of Bulls Bikes, especially large batteries. However, the greatest feature of Specialized Vado/Como e-bikes is their electronics. Bear in mind, Brose leaves the matter of electronics to the OEM. Specialized have been able to create one of the best e-bike electronics in the world, giving you total control over your e-bike performance and enabling you to retrieve all possible bike, rider and ride information from the bike (combined with smartphone/sports wearable information). Mission Control is just a tip of the iceberg; an inexpensive BLEvo app lets you totally control your Vado/Como/Levo/Kenevo/Vado SL/Creo SL and retrieve up to 51 parameters post-ride, combined with Strava export -- and GPS navigation during the ride. No other brand offers such capabilities!

Once, my Vado was equipped with an obsolete (now) BLOKS display. I felt miserable at that time: I could not tune my Vado, and I was not getting vital information from the bike, even such prosaic as the number of battery charge cycles! After conversion to the new TCD-W display, I could control everything. For instance, I found ways how to significantly extend my battery range. Or, I could use Mission Control to ensure I would cover a planned long distance on a single battery.

However good Bulls Lacuba is, it won't have the same level of electronics as Specialized (Bulls Bikes are still using some version of BLOKS display).

Now: The ride comfort. If that's vital for you, get yourself a Como 5.0. You would be delighted, I promise. Or, indeed raise the handlebars in a Vado 5.0.

Freewheel whirr? It is very soft on Specialized Vado/Como and only audible when you're not pedalling.

P.S. BLEvo advantages post

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Stefan Mikes, yes, I can see Specialized has that Mission Control App (i checked for apple ios and likely then here is a windows version), and the control of the motor feature looks interesting. I do wonder though, will the Specialized motor control program have SHIFT DETECTION as is present in control software associated with the Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motors? That SHIFT DETECTION function is to ease off the effect of peddling to avoid gear mashing and I was told that with the Brose motor on the BULLS LACUBA, you have to ease off yourself when shifting gears, to avoid mashing under the high torque involved with this motor. So if Brose leaves it up to the bike manufacturer to deal with electronics, has Specialized put SHIFT DETECTION in its Vado 5.0? Or do you have to ease off peddling when shifting gears?

Brose motor type.... in Specialized Specs,

Turbo Vado 5.0

When we set out to revamp our Turbo line, we knew that we needed to design a bike that best meets your needs. With our lives getting more hectic with ea...

www.specialized.com

they don't even identify the motor as a Brose, they say it is a specialized 1.3.
"Specialized 1.3, custom Rx Trail-tuned motor, 250W nominal"
I thought a 1.3 was the Smag motor as there are bike descriptions out there that say it is the S mag motor and there is a diff between the Al and the Mag version....more support and lighter!

See this https://ebike-mtb.com/en/brose-drive-system-2020/
has chart of the Brose motors, see the 90Nm ones,

• "Brose Drive S Mag: up to 410 % support, 90 Nm torque – the rising star in the Brose eMTB lineup. The Flex Power mode offers excellent support across a wide range of cadences and is 500 g lighter than the Drive S Alu thanks to its aluminium housing."

Steve says " If you are thinking of Vado 5.0 or Como 5.0, these are fitted with Brose S Alu (Specialized 1.3).....ok, i was wondering as i have seen descriptions that say its the Smag motor.... it would help if SPECIALIZED would provide a description of which motor it is putting in the bike.

I just found this website, will look more at that.

Home

Commuters to the office or athletes? A different eBike suits each of you. Find what fits you perfectly with us.

www.brose-ebike.com

Thanks.
RJ

 

[Stefan Mikes]

RJ, we EBR members and riders of Specialized Vado and Como have amassed a lot of good information, and that's the information you can trust:

Brose Alu motors.

• Brose C = Specialized 1.2e (Vado 3.0)
• Brose T = Specialized 1.2 (Vado 4.0)
• Brose TF = Specialized 1.2s (Vado 6.0)
• Brose S(alu) = Specialized 1.3 (Vado 5.0).

Brose refers to 25 km/h but these motors are limited to 32 km/h in Canada. In the United States, most of these motors are limited at 28 mph.

Brose Magnesium motors. Only Brose S Mag is used by Specialized as 2.1, and only in Turbo Levo and Kenevo.

(You can trust the information you are getting from me. We actually have got the Specialized Turbo Vado/Como User Club here at EBR).

 

[rj cedar]

Thanks for clarifying the Vado has the aluminum brose motor, 1.3.

 

[rj cedar]

I received a reply from Brose that they only supply the hardware, and the OEM supplies all else. So if I understand this right, then it is Specialized has developed the software that delivers a smooth ride. So now I wonder how well Bulls has developed their control software. Can anyone please comment on the BULLS LACUBO EVO 10 power delivery system for smoothness? Is it smooth? As good as the Specialized Vado 5.0?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I am in Canada, looking for a top quality, QUIET RUNNING e bike, so one with the Brose S Mag motor, which is quieter than the comparable Bosh CX gen 4 motor.

So far I came up with these 2 bikes from Bulls and Specialized. Are there other manufacturers that put a Brose S Mag motor into their bikes?

Now trying to decide between these 2 Brose S Mag motor bikes. Between these 2, can anyone please comment on these questions?:
- which has the smoothest power delivery program? Many have commented on the smooth power delivery program on the Specialized Vado. What about the Bulls Lacuba Evo 10 Diamond?
- which has the quietest freewheel. When not peddling, you do get quite a pronounced "can of bees" sound on the Specialized Vado. Does the Lacuba do the same? I understand Shimano makes the quietest hubs.....but is there a manufacturer that has put a similar bike together?
Thank you,
RJ

I live in the greater Vancouver area and bought recently. Both these bikes were in my Top 5 or so.
I originally decided upon the Bulls Lacuba EVO Lite w/ the trapeze frame, (Gates belt with Shimano Nexus hub and Brose S drive) right up until I learned the Nexus 5 speed hub has a lousy gearing range. I really wanted the Gates belt, but couldn't live with the hub. I serviced Gates belts in HVAC applications for over 15 years. Bulletproof.
I eliminated the Vado 5.0 and the Como 5.0 from my list when Specialized got stupid price increases and there was too much I wanted to do to both of them to work for me. I had previously eliminated Trek Allant +7 and + 8. They couldn't get me an Allant +8 Stagger and the +7 does not come with the Stagger frame.
Just the low step version. NOPE.
I replaced the Bulls EVO Lite with the Bulls Lacuba EVO 10 on your list. I had eliminated any Gazelles and Moustaches prior to that.
The day arrived where I thought I had to make a purchase or run the risk of missing out due to the current
boom in eBike sales. I went in to my LBS on D-Day with my mind set on two bikes.
The Bulls Lacuba EVO 10 on your list and a CUBE Kathmandu EXC 625. My LBS had both in stock in my size. They were within $200 of each other.
The Bulls had the Brose drive I preferred, a larger capacity battery but had narrower tires than I wanted.
The CUBE had an acceptable size a battery, the size of tires I preferred but the drive was the Bosch CX which was my second or third choice. (I had the new OHM Quest Sport with the Shimano Steps EP8 drive on my list until I found it only comes in a diamond frame.......I'm 66 and not getting any younger so having a Trapeze/Stagger frame was waaay up on my had-to-have list)
Anyway, I walked in and had a look at the Lacuba for really the first time, and the CUBE for the umpteenth time. (the CUBE was the bike that started the whole eBike journey for me back in the fall) I had seen the whole Kathmandu lineup and felt the extra $$$ were well spent opting for the EXC.
For ME, looking at the two lasted about 5 seconds. To ME, there was no comparison. The CUBE looked so much more superior aesthetically. Matt black frame vs gloss black frame, larger tires, fenders, frame-integrated rear rack. DONE.
After some time with the CUBE now here's my take.....although the Brose drive is close to silent (so I hear) the Bosch is much quieter than I thought it would be. My CUBE is so tight, refined and solid. More so than I expected. I can ride it with the drive OFF and there is zero drag. With my lousy lungs I had to stop riding my carbon Bianchi road bike 'cause I just couldn't cope with even the slightest incline. My CUBE has a 51 tooth cog on the rear and a 38 tooth chainring. Awesome torque multiplication. It climbs cliffs. The shifting is so smoooth and precise. (I always felt my Bianchi felt somewhat delicate like it would be easy to break. Even the Campy Chorus group I had on it 'felt breakable', although not likely) The CUBE feels indestructable. My suggestion would be to make sure to ride bikes with both Bosch PL AND Brose drives if noise is an issue. The comparative noise might surprise you. Buy from an LBS for sure. AND, as you would suspect from me, look at a CUBE Kathmandu. With exception of the EXC, they are less $$$ than the two on your list. At least have a look at one, but buy whatever from a bike store close to you.
CN

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Sorry....I went off on too long a tangent in my above post. I wanted to throw a bunch of other contenders out there that I looked at that the OP might consider and how I eliminated the also rans from my final choice. All of them come with Diamond frames. For me, I put buying at an LBS pretty much the top of my list. Close support while contributing to local economy. I really wanted to buy Canadian but OHM (North Vancouver, B.C.) and Voltbike (Coquitlam B.C.) don't offer bikes with trapeze frames and OHM didn't reply to my one E-mail request.

My CUBE Kathmandu 625 EXC right after I took delivery. CN

 

[rj cedar]

Sorry....I went off on too long a tangent in my above post. I wanted to throw a bunch of other contenders out there that I looked at that the OP might consider and how I eliminated the also rans from my final choice. All of them come with Diamond frames. For me, I put buying at an LBS pretty much the top of my list. Close support while contributing to local economy. I really wanted to buy Canadian but OHM (North Vancouver, B.C.) and Voltbike (Coquitlam B.C.) don't offer bikes with trapeze frames and OHM didn't reply to my one E-mail request.

My CUBE Kathmandu 625 EXC right after I took delivery. CN
View attachment 85346

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. The other thing to know about Bulls that they only offer 2 sizes, and the big size I think is too small for me. I have been following the same elimination path as you have been through. You hit several nails on the head for me in your discussion, especially the wider tires objective and to note the brose motor the cube comes with isn't that noisy after all. What about freewheel ratchet noise when not peddling? I have heard that Bosch quality is superior, for motor seals and wiring connections but I highly prize silence...... Will try to demo your 60 pound, 12 speed, CUBE Kathmandu 625 EXC. Not sure if I would go diamond or trapeze frame. Nice they have 4 sizes.

I am 6'1" tall, leg inseam 34" how does that compare to you, and what size did you get for fit? (46, 50 54, 58?) Did you need to change steer tube height or change stem to get a fit? I think you can upgrade the Intuvia display to the new Nyon display, is that right?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. The other thing to know about Bulls that they only offer 2 sizes, and the big size I think is too small for me. I have been following the same elimination path as you have been through. You hit several nails on the head for me in your discussion, especially the wider tires objective and to note the brose motor the cube comes with isn't that noisy after all. What about freewheel ratchet noise when not peddling? I have heard that Bosch quality is superior, for motor seals and wiring connections but I highly prize silence...... Will try to demo your 60 pound, 12 speed, CUBE Kathmandu 625 EXC. Not sure if I would go diamond or trapeze frame. Nice they have 4 sizes.

I am 6'1" tall, leg inseam 34" how does that compare to you, and what size did you get for fit? (46, 50 54, 58?) Did you need to change steer tube height or change stem to get a fit? I think you can upgrade the Intuvia display to the new Nyon display, is that right?

I am 5'10 or so with a 32 inseam (on pants) I bought a 54 but I have the seat just about as far down as it goes. You will likely fit a 54. I don't think you'd have to go up to the 58.
I have heard no noise when not pedalling, but I will pay particular attention to everything next ride. I suspect there was the usual ratcheting sound but I've ridden bikes forever so never gave it any thought.
My EXC came with an adjustable stem so I had no problem fitting it.
It came with an Intuvia but I understand it will accept an upgrade to a Nyon. I may, or may not do that.
All I have done to it is add a Mirrycycle bar end mirror (the stock grips had no end plugs so I just cut out the left grip where a plug would reside) and have a Redshift Shockstop suspension seat post on the way. With my seat height there is not enough room to fit a Kinekt. I understand the two posts are rated as close as to be a push. IMO, the suspension seat post that came with my Cube is too stiff at the softest adjustment. I have no issue with the seat so far but will install the Redshift post and re-evaluate the it. I have put off buying a different seat for now but will get a Selle Anatomica H2 in the event I want to change it. I've never had issues with seats. I find my *** hardens up after a bit of time riding. My last road bike had a Fizek Antares and I thought it was a bit hard, but OK. I have no interest getting some sort of plush, monster butt cushion. I am riding a bike, not sitting on a couch watching TV.
I did not mean to imply in my previous posts that the Bulls was no good. When I looked at the two I decided I liked the CUBE way better and was willing to take my chances with the Bosch drive over getting the Brose I had wanted initially. CN

 

[rj cedar]

I am 5'10 or so with a 32 inseam (on pants) I bought a 54 but I have the seat just about as far down as it goes. You will likely fit a 54. I don't think you'd have to go up to the 58.
I have heard no noise when not pedalling, but I will pay particular attention to everything next ride. I suspect there was the usual ratcheting sound but I've ridden bikes forever so never gave it any thought.
My EXC came with an adjustable stem so I had no problem fitting it.
It came with an Intuvia but I understand it will accept an upgrade to a Nyon. I may, or may not do that.
All I have done to it is add a Mirrycycle bar end mirror (the stock grips had no end plugs so I just cut out the left grip where a plug would reside) and have a Redshift Shockstop suspension seat post on the way. With my seat height there is not enough room to fit a Kinekt. I understand the two posts are rated as close as to be a push. IMO, the suspension seat post that came with my Cube is too stiff at the softest adjustment. I have no issue with the seat so far but will install the Redshift post and re-evaluate the it. I have put off buying a different seat for now but will get a Selle Anatomica H2 in the event I want to change it. I've never had issues with seats. I find my *** hardens up after a bit of time riding. My last road bike had a Fizek Antares and I thought it was a bit hard, but OK. I have no interest getting some sort of plush, monster butt cushion. I am riding a bike, not sitting on a couch watching TV.
I did not mean to imply in my previous posts that the Bulls was no good. When I looked at the two I decided I liked the CUBE way better and was willing to take my chances with the Bosch drive over getting the Brose I had wanted initially. CN

Hi Comfortably Numb,

Thanks again for those details. Yes, Bulls is fine, for me the issues are only 2 sizes offered, and larger one is too small, plus the motor noise, other than that, love some of the specs, like the air shock and larger battery.

But now I have gone through a review of the vado 5 LT, with the specialized 1.1 motor, not a Brose, to explore the idea that a LIGHTER bike with a quite motor, one that is 2x me for assist may do me just fine, I dont really need 4x me. So , I rode an LT with that 1.1 motor..... the motor is noisy, surprised me, sounds like a high pitched sewing machine. Then rode a standard vado again with the brose 1.3 motor, and oh so quiet. I have yet to test ride the CUBE you got, I will do that.

SIZES I need an XL size on the standard vado 5.0. For me, the seat height is adjustable and its location is just fine. But the handlebar is 3" too low. So need 3" higher rise to the handlebar than is there now. The stock stem is 20 degree x 90mm long. , HOPEFULLY A RISER CAN BE PUT IN on top of this stem. Can anyone comment on this? Specialized product reference code? Others that are 6'1" tall with 34" inseam will have the same problem.

Thinking more about the light bike idea, DOES ANONE KNOW OF A VERY LIGHT BIKE WITH A RELAXED RIDING POSITION, LIKE THE SPECIALIZED VADO 5.0 LT, BUT equipped with the very QUIET BROSE MOTOR?

Thank you!

 

[TS25]

I need an XL size on the standard vado 5.0. For me, the seat height is adjustable and its location is just fine. But the handlebar is 3" too low. So need 3" higher rise to the handlebar than is there now. The stock stem is 20 degree x 90mm long. , HOPEFULLY A RISER CAN BE PUT IN on top of this stem. Can anyone comment on this? ... Others that are 6'1" tall with 34" inseam will have the same problem.

At 6'2" with 35" inseam I needed a stem riser for my MY18 Vado 4.0 XL frame which is pictured here:

Raising the handlebar on a '19 Vado 3.0

I use Ergon GP3 grips for that :) More space... Well, I'm perhaps pampered with the Vado 5.0 with its unique lighting etc. The only thing I cannot really use is the handlebar bag. Of course, I understand your preferences Terry, just saying Vado is not the easiest thing for modding it ;) I...

electricbikereview.com

Up to 3" rise was possible but too much for me, so I chopped it down to about 2" rise with a metal saw.
But my stock stem was different, not 20° x ...

 

[Dave Rocks]

Why does the motor need to be so quiet? Are you a Ninja?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Hi Comfortably Numb,

Thanks again for those details. Yes, Bulls is fine, for me the issues are only 2 sizes offered, and larger one is too small, plus the motor noise, other than that, love some of the specs, like the air shock and larger battery.

But now I have gone through a review of the vado 5 LT, with the specialized 1.1 motor, not a Brose, to explore the idea that a LIGHTER bike with a quite motor, one that is 2x me for assist may do me just fine, I dont really need 4x me. So , I rode an LT with that 1.1 motor..... the motor is noisy, surprised me, sounds like a high pitched sewing machine. Then rode a standard vado again with the brose 1.3 motor, and oh so quiet. I have yet to test ride the CUBE you got, I will do that.

SIZES I need an XL size on the standard vado 5.0. For me, the seat height is adjustable and its location is just fine. But the handlebar is 3" too low. So need 3" higher rise to the handlebar than is there now. The stock stem is 20 degree x 90mm long. , HOPEFULLY A RISER CAN BE PUT IN on top of this stem. Can anyone comment on this? Specialized product reference code? Others that are 6'1" tall with 34" inseam will have the same problem.

Thinking more about the light bike idea, DOES ANONE KNOW OF A VERY LIGHT BIKE WITH A RELAXED RIDING POSITION, LIKE THE SPECIALIZED VADO 5.0 LT, BUT equipped with the very QUIET BROSE MOTOR?

Thank you

I spent a lot of time researching e-bikes before I bought. I think your search is pretty much fruitless finding the silent, lightweight bike you need to get. I would say your best bet is to decide on which Vado comes closest to your requirements. Either the heavier Vado with the more quiet a drive or the lighter Vado with the sewing machine whine. IMO, I believe you're underestimating the e-bike's ability to overcome being a 'heavy' bike. As long as the bike has nimble enough handling for you, I'd set the weight issue aside and go for the bike with the Ninja drive. Either that or put off buying altogether until someone comes out with the bike of your dreams, or buy yourself an interim bike and wait to see where the technology goes. Right now, I don't think what you need is out there. CN

 

[rj cedar]

I spent a lot of time researching e-bikes before I bought. I think your search is pretty much fruitless finding the silent, lightweight bike you need to get. I would say your best bet is to decide on which Vado comes closest to your requirements. Either the heavier Vado with the more quiet a drive or the lighter Vado with the sewing machine whine. IMO, I believe you're underestimating the e-bike's ability to overcome being a 'heavy' bike. As long as the bike has nimble enough handling for you, I'd set the weight issue aside and go for the bike with the Ninja drive. Either that or put off buying altogether until someone comes out with the bike of your dreams, or buy yourself an interim bike and wait to see where the technology goes. Right now, I don't think what you need is out there. CN

 

[rj cedar]

The newer superlight super lightweight (35 lbs) bikes - Trek Domane Plus (tried both Carbon and ALR versions) and the Specialized VADO SL meet my power needs but they are not quiet, so they are out. After testing the hugely heavy R&M bikes (70 lbs plus), it’s clear I do not wish to own such a heavy bike, or the nosier Bosch motor. Lightweight for me is 50 lbs, a target set considering what I am able to lift, seldom as those occasions are. I am not concerned that the 90 Newton Meter Brose motor will not carry the ~50 lb Vado bike weight, in fact that motor has more power than I need on a 50 lb bike. Another wish for me is for drop bars and STI shifters, a modification possible on the Specialized Vado 5, so my search ends with the Specialized Vado 5, as my silent, “lightweight” bike, which ends up having more power than I need.