Brakes advice?

[Dmitri]

I'm currently thinking of upgrading my brakes and specifically looking at the quad piston ones.

I was wondering whether anyone here can give any advice or experiences as to the kind of brakes that you've used as you upgraded your bikes.

So far, I have experience with Magura MT2, MT5, Deore XT, SRAM Guide R and Tektro. I don't particularly like any of them, for varying reasons.

 

[indianajo]

I've got tektro mechanical brakes on my new yuba bodaboda. They work a lot better in the rain than any rim brake I've owned. My highest gross weight has been ~260 lb so far. 5 months after new the rear needs tightening up, but I ride daily.
Not fiddling with bleeding of hydraulics is a plus to me. I've done enough of that on cars.
All those warnings about mechanical disk brakes leave me with ?????

 

[rich c]

I've got tektro mechanical brakes on my new yuba bodaboda. They work a lot better in the rain than any rim brake I've owned. My highest gross weight has been ~260 lb so far. 5 months after new the rear needs tightening up, but I ride daily.
Not fiddling with bleeding of hydraulics is a plus to me. I've done enough of that on cars.
All those warnings about mechanical disk brakes leave me with ????? People who don't do their own maintenance? People whose mommy can come get them if the bike breaks 30 miles from home? The nearest bike shop is a 3 hour bus ride from me, and I don't run a car, so if maintenance gets done, it's done by me.

You can't ride if one brake fails on the road? Have you ever rode a bike with hydraulic brakes? I'll never go back to mechanical! I forget the brand, but a tech was telling me that new systems are basically self bleeding. If there is an air bubble, the reservoir is designed to allow the bubble to work out. I feel your impression of hydraulic brakes comes from old designs. I love the control of one or two fingers on the blade, coming down steep slopes on my mtb! Especially since my bike is heavy and so am I at 250lbs. I currently have Magura MT4 on two bikes.

 

[Dmitri]

I actually really like mechanical disc brakes... Avid BB7 is on a lot of fatbikes because it is field-repairable, unlike hydraulics, which are a pain to even bleed, and if you puncture a hose, it ruins your entire ride, plus the brake fluid contaminates your rotor and brake pads, adding insult to injury.

I have not tried Magura MT4s, but I have seen both MT2s (awful, awful, terrible, plastic handles, just really insane design, 0/10 would not buy again) and MT5s. The MT5s are a bit more solid but even then, with them the issue was the pistons on either side of the brakes would come out to different lengths... which is just evil. Also I really hate how the handles feel. Long story short, Magura isn't an option for me.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

A few of the pro riders I know swear by Shimano saint : http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-saint-m820-disc-brake/rp-prod82461

and Hope tech: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-tech-3-e4-disc-brake/rp-prod112975

 

[Dmitri]

A few of the pro riders I know swear by Shimano saint : http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-saint-m820-disc-brake/rp-prod82461

and Hope tech: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/hope-tech-3-e4-disc-brake/rp-prod112975

Shimano Saint is a very tempting grouping generally. I use Saint pedals everywhere anyway, and I heard only good things about the brakes and derailleurs (not so much on the hubs).

As for Hope, I only know they make very expensive brake rotors. Didn't realize they do other things too.

 

[rich c]

I have Magura MT4s. An uncensored opinion: I absolutely hate them.

A short list of problems:

- There are so many scenarios in which the MT4s leak that it’s almost laughable. Change your pads, they leak. Brake uphill too much, they leak. Squeeze too hard (emergency braking), they leak. Overfill them, they leak.

- There is no definition of the bite point. Instead you constantly have to babyfeed the MT4s momma’s expensive juice as the brake pads wear out. Translation: you’ll be spending a fortune on royal blood, topping up the brakes every 2 weeks. It’s messy, it’s gooey, and the result usually isn’t that great. If you don’t do that, you’ll be spending a fortune on pads. So it’s a win-win for Magura and a lose-lose for you. As they say, the house always wins.

- No indication of how much fluid must be in the circuit. It’s pure guess work.

- Lever springs pop out constantly.

- The MT4s are ultra spongy and don’t react quickly. If you overfill them so that they bite rapidly, they will leak.

- A rapid change of barometric pressure tends to force air into the calipers. This means that a change of weather will alter the brake’s performance. This can occur during a single ride. Basically, changes in weather dictate when you have to burp the brakes.

So I understand where the OP is coming from. Those of us who use their bikes every day to commute need professional grade brakes. I’m more and more scared of riding with the MT4s. I don’t trust them at all. They’re much too unpredictable.

I must be blessed. Nearing 2000 miles on each of 2 bikes. In the nearly 4,000 miles I've cracked one blade in a mtb accident, but no spring or other issues you have mentioned. I've never added a drop of fluid.

 

[Nova Haibike]

What didn't you like about the Shimano XT brakes (and which version was it; M775, M785, M8000?)

 

[hurricane56]

I have Magura MT4s. An uncensored opinion: I absolutely hate them.

A short list of problems:

- There are so many scenarios in which the MT4s leak that it’s almost laughable. Change your pads, they leak. Brake uphill too much, they leak. Squeeze too hard (emergency braking), they leak. Overfill them, they leak.

- There is no definition of the bite point. Instead you constantly have to babyfeed the MT4s momma’s expensive juice as the brake pads wear out. Translation: you’ll be spending a fortune on royal blood, topping up the brakes every 2 weeks. It’s messy, it’s gooey, and the result usually isn’t that great. If you don’t do that, you’ll be spending a fortune on pads. So it’s a win-win for Magura and a lose-lose for you. As they say, the house always wins.

- No indication of how much fluid must be in the circuit. It’s pure guess work.

- Lever springs pop out constantly.

- The MT4s are ultra spongy and don’t react quickly. If you overfill them so that they bite rapidly, they will leak.

- A rapid change of barometric pressure tends to force air into the calipers. This means that a change of weather will alter the brake’s performance. This can occur during a single ride. Basically, changes in weather dictate when you have to burp the brakes.

So I understand where the OP is coming from. Those of us who use their bikes every day to commute need professional grade brakes. I’m more and more scared of riding with the MT4s. I don’t trust them at all. They’re much too unpredictable.

Were you able to get warranty service on your brakes? I have MT4 on one bike and MT5 on another bike and I like Magura brakes over most other brands.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I must be blessed. Nearing 2000 miles on each of 2 bikes. In the 4,000 miles I've cracked one blade in a mtb accident, but no spring or other issues you have mentioned. I've never added a drop of fluid.

I am too. I have 5000+ miles on my Trekking S Rx with MT4 and and only one set of pads changed but did not even bleed once!

As @Nova Haibike said, XT brakes are great. More than sufficient for city/XC use.

 

[hurricane56]

To get warranty service, I would need to prove that the brakes don’t work... It’s easier said than done. The brakes work, but their performance has notably degraded. I’ve had problems since the beginning, but they were minor and manageable. Now I’m having to do a lot of maintenance... It gets annoying.

That’s too bad, I’d seriously write a letter to Magura and have them take them back and give you new ones.

 

[Dmitri]

I have Magura MT4s. An uncensored opinion: I absolutely hate them.

A short list of problems:
So I understand where the OP is coming from. Those of us who use their bikes every day to commute need professional grade brakes. I’m more and more scared of riding with the MT4s. I don’t trust them at all. They’re much too unpredictable.

What amazed me is the quality of construction in MT2 and MT5. In the MT2, it's bad enough that they have plastic lever which actually bend as you pull on them, but then you unscrew the cap for bleeding and you realize it's a plastic cap with no rubber seal, and it's way, way too easy to accidentally over-tighten the bleed port without realizing it.

On the MT5, the issue with pistons sticking out at different distances only served to confirm my already negative bias. I don't know if it's a design flaw or just the brakes being designed that way.

In both cases, the levers are spongy and not in a good way... I have Outbraker on one of the bikes and, honestly, it feels better than Magura brakes.

What didn't you like about the Shimano XT brakes (and which version was it; M775, M785, M8000?)

Oh, they are great, but they have a certain lack of stopping power, meaning my braking distance is a bit too long for comfort.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Oh, they are great, but they have a certain lack of stopping power, meaning my braking distance is a bit too long for comfort.

Shimano makes the XT in a 4-piston version, the BR-M8020.

 

[JoePah]

Have had Avid Magura and all types of disc brakes... There is just no comparison to hydraulic brakes. They self adjust and have tremendous leverage on brake force.

IMO most brakes are just fine, just have to know how to maintain them.. And buy the correct pads for however you use them.. I always buy pads from Disco Engineering.. semi metallic.. and prep the discs and the brakes..

 

[Hugh]

My fat bike came with hydralic disc brakes but I live in a Canadian province and we have winter here and I ride some singletrack winter trails and the mineral oil the brakes use does not work in the kind of cold we get so I changed the brakes over to Avid BB 5,s which are mechanical. I was using the hydralics until one day at around 12 below C the brake lever went right to the bars and no stopping power down a smaller hill. The Avids were purchased and installed before the next ride.

 

[Dmitri]

My fat bike came with hydralic disc brakes but I live in a Canadian province and we have winter here and I ride some singletrack winter trails and the mineral oil the brakes use does not work in the kind of cold we get so I changed the brakes over to Avid BB 5,s which are mechanical. I was using the hydralics until one day at around 12 below C the brake lever went right to the bars and no stopping power down a smaller hill. The Avids were purchased and installed before the next ride.

Umm, I live in Russia, and even with much colder temperatures, I've never had any issues with mineral oil freezing in the brakes. I did have issues with the Suntour fork freezing (I've since got rid of it) as well as the Rohloff shifter misbehaving (nothing can be done about this). But not the brakes.

FWIW, SRAM and other brake manufacturers use DOT fluid which has a lower freezing point, but I think the point where mineral oil is supposed to freeze is somewhere below -30C, so I'm surprised that your brakes malfunctioned at -12C. I ride in those temperatures all the time with no problems.

 

[Augsburg]

Avid BB7: I have several thousand of miles on these brakes - between 3 bikes. The BB7's are thought by most to be the best mechanical brake made and work decent when set up correctly. They have the ability to adjust both the inside and outside pad (note: BB5's only adjust one pad, not both - which prevents BB5's from having the nice feel/touch of BB7's). BB7's require regular adjustment, as they do not self-adjust like hydraulic brakes. As with all mechanical brakes, you need to adjust them regularly (every 100 to 200 miles) - more often if you live in hilly terrain. After the miles accumulate, the BB7's get fussy on adjustment and take more attention to keep noise free and working well. Changing pads on BB7's requires removing the wheel and typically readjusting the caliper position after re-installing.

Shimano XT hydraulic: I have these brakes on one bike, with a couple thousand miles experience. So far, I had to have one of the brakes bled twice by a bike shop. The first time the brake had air in the line, from improper set up by the original bike shop. The second time, the bleed port had not been tightened all the way, so a slow leak left the brake soft after several hundred miles. Now the XT's are bleed correctly, the last 1,000+ miles have been trouble-free with no adjustment or any attention needed. Changing pads does not require removing the wheel or any re-adjsutment. So much easier than BB7's.

As far as modulation and brake "feel", the Shimano XT are head and shoulders better than the Avid BB7. The Shimano's self adjust and have less noise than BB7's (I use resin/organic pads).

Conclusion: I will never buy another bike with BB7's and will always go with hydraulic.

 

[Dmitri]

One interesting thing I read is that BB7s apparently support 185mm rotors and not 180mm ones. Is that still the case?

 

[Augsburg]

One interesting thing I read is that BB7s apparently support 185mm rotors and not 180mm ones. Is that still the case?

I don't think that is true. I have used BB7's with 160mm, 180mm and 203mm rotors. I imagine 185mm is possible, if you have an adapter set up to locate the pads to sweep a 185mm rotor. To go from one size rotor to another, you need to use adapters positioning the caliper in the correct location, such that the brake pads clamp the rotor in the proper area.