Bosch powered bikes coming to the US

[Chris Nolte]

So, since there are a lot of Bosch powered bikes coming to the US, I wanted to start a discussion relating to the drive system and who will be working with it in the US. Most of the companies already have experience working with Bosch in their European markets, but we finally get some of that good technology over here this summer thanks to some of the brands listed below.

Please let me know if you guys know of more and I will add it to the list

More about the Bosch Drive System: http://www.bosch-ebike.de/en/home/home.html
and the new drive system here http://www.the-new-era.com/en/Startseite.html
http://www.the-new-era.com/en/Startseite.html
Most of the bikes will be using the Performance drive system with the 350 Watt motor with a 20Mph top speed and some will include the Speed Drive with a 28 mph top speed.

Haibike - Probably the most prominent and widest offering, we have tested many of these bikes at Interbike and we have orders in for the full lineup.

More at: https://www.haibike.com/de/de

Grace - We have been communicating with Grace in Germany for some time and we recently got word that Bosch powered Grace bikes will be coming to the states around the same time as all the others which looks like the end of May currently.

More at: http://www.grace-bikes.com/
http://www.grace-bikes.com/
Nicolai - They're a handmade frame manufacturer based in Germany and we will be working with them here in the US. They will be bring in two frame styles with the Bosch drive system, both of which are long travel full suspension frames.

More at: http://www.nicolai-usa.com/

Felt - They showed several bikes at Interbike, including a Fat Tire Bosch powered bike that caught a lot of attention, but it seems they will be approaching this very slowly and they probably won't be released as soon as the other manufacturers. My local rep informed me they might release it to one or two stores, but they're still unsure at the moment.

Nothing on the US site, but you can see their lineup on their International site: http://www.feltbicycles.com/International.aspx

Cannondale - I don't have any details if and when they are coming to the US, but I believe they were on the original list with Felt.

Nothing on the US site, but you can also see some of their bikes on their International site here: http://www.cannondale.com/nor/catalog/category/view/s/e-series/id/970/
http://www.cannondale.com/nor/catalog/category/view/s/e-series/id/970/
BH Easy Motion - They decided to stick with the market that has already been so good for them which is their Neo line. No official word if they will be bringing them in next year, but 2014 is out.

Some bikes here, but they are mostly all the Classic line: http://www.bhbikes.com/web/en/easy-motion-ebikes/technology/bosch.html

Focus - We have been working with Focus on bringing some of their Bosch powered bikes over, but there is no official word yet on if it will happen. There Impulse mid drive system is quite capable as well though.

More here: http://www.focus-bikes.com
http://www.focus-bikes.com
Steppenwolf - They should be bringing bikes over as well, although the US distribution is not clearly defined yet.

More at: http://www.steppenwolf-bikes.com/bikes/pedelec/ (tip use Google Chrome to translate)

There are also some good forums out there that can be a wealth of information, I listed one below, but it will be nice to have some discussions based on the US bikes here.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/#pedelecs-forums.1
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/#pedelecs-forums.1

 

[Admin]

Awesome roundup Chris! The Bosch system is pretty sweet and you reminded me of a couple reviews I hadn't posted (since the bikes didn't seem to come out). Here are two Felt electric bikes powered by the Bosch system at Interbike 2013. In the coming weeks I'll also be publishing a full review of another Haibike with Bosch

Felt 9E electric bike:
This one was my favorite, it's a hardtail mountain bike with knobby tires using the newer Bosch drive system. Reminded me of the IZIP E3 Peak.

Felt QXE electric bike:
This bike had larger diameter tires, 700c I believe, and was designed as an urban commuter with suspension fork. Reminded me of the IZIP E3 Dash but using mid-drive vs. rear hub motor. Handled pretty well off-road but not as grippy as the 9E. You can also see that this one had a much older Bosch drive system, it's a bit chunkier looking and weaker at 250 watts.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Wow...!!
Wonderful compilation, Chris. I hope more retailers take interest in this.
I was taken by surprise when I noticed that so many companies in EU make use of Bosch system. Attached a pic that I took from Bosch website.

Court, since you have ridden a ton of ebikes, I wanted to know if the mid-drive systems felt little less zippy compared to hub motor design?

So far, reading up on mid-drive systems, I gather that mid-drives are efficient and helps extend the range but it needs more active engagement from the rider and also feels (apparently) little less zippy compared to Xion or other hub motor design (geared). Having ridden so many of them, did you notice this or is it too subtle of a difference?

 

[Admin]

Hey Ravi, great question. Since the Bosch systems don't include throttle mode and rely on your bicycle drive train the zippy feel of hub motors (being able to accelerate at a high rate at any moment) is somewhat diminished. That said, you get something like 2x the range and the Bosch system does feel amazing. I'm working on another Haibike review where I include a speed test and it really shows off the system. The other drawback to the Bosch system is that it makes a high pitched whirring noise which is louder than a direct drive hub motor like you'd find on the IZIP E3 Dash. Still, it's not that loud and I really like the Bosch system, much more than the other mid-drives I've ridden.

 

[EddieJ]

My Bosch system has already started the now all too common popping sound problem.

Court, the Felt kind of reminds me of the KTM Macina.




As well as the current full range of KTM of e-bikes, a soon to be launched KTM that the dealers in the US might want to keep an eye on is this lovely looking model, the 2014 KTM Macina Lycan.

The photo below doesn't show the completed bike, but is enough to more than wet the appetite. I particularly like the way that they have shaped the swingarm pivot end to give maximum chain clearance along the run. I also like the very short yet strong looking headstock.



[edit] Court, in your review of the felt you make mention of the controls ability to gauge remaining battery power. To expand upon this in a positive way from my albeit limited experience, this distance is underestimated rather than over, which to me is a very sensible approach in the programming.

 

[Brambor]

looks great. This explosion of brands with Bosh system has got to mean that lower prices will follow. I would be interested in a fat bike or a mountain bike with pedal assist for next year.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I have no insider information but google translate on a German website yielded some interesting info.

BMW Cruise ebike will be out soon and is manufactured by BH..!
It has the same Bosch performance drive and looks like a normal Bosch ebike. It's not as cool as Audi ebike but I think they just want to enter the market.

https://ebike-news.de/neues-bmw-e-bike-2014-kommt-mit-bosch-antrieb/6519/

 

[JoePah]

My Bosch system has already started the now all too common popping sound problem.

Court, the Felt kind of reminds me of the KTM Macina.

It's a shame that KTM choose to add the wiring to the outside of the frame, as it spoils the clean lines of an otherwise lovely looking quality built bike.

View attachment 702

As well as the full KTM range of e-bikes, a soon to be launched KTM that the dealers in the US might want to keep an eye on is this lovely looking KTM. The photo below doesn't show the completed bike, but is enough to more than wet the appetite. I particularly like the way that they have shaped the swingarm pivot end to give maximum chain clearance along the run. I also like the very short yet strong looking headstock.

View attachment 704



edit... Court, in your review of the felt you make mention of the controls ability to gauge remaining battery power. To expand upon this in a positive way from my albeit limited experience, this distance is underestimated rather than over, which to me is a very sensible approach in the programming.



.

What is the Bosch popping sound problem? Isn't your bike brand new????

 

[Chris Nolte]

Court - Thanks for the add. Felt bikes are pretty nice, and that Fat ebike could be really cool, too bad they're dragging their feet in bringing them to market.

Ravi - The Bosch is a bit less zippy than a hub motor, it's not that it's not powerful, it's just much smoother due to the way it interacts with your pedaling. It utilizes torque, speed and cadence sensors taking 1,000 measurements a second (from their site "The optimized 3-sensor concept take measurement 1,000 times per second with maximum precision for optimal power tuning and a new, unique riding experience."). You really feel the difference too. If you're ever in the area come by and take one for a ride, I have one for testing now and I'll have more in the summer.

Eddie - Sorry you are having issues with your new bike, I'm sure it's annoying. I was reading an article about it here, apparently it doesn't affect the performance, but it's definitely unpleasant. I guess it was old stock that you purchased as I understand they fixed this with the newer 2014 models. I hope you get it resolved without much trouble. Also, I have reached out to KTM a couple months ago and I am definitely watching them. Haibike will still be my brand of choice in the US though due to the support the Accell Group offers, it's really unmatched in the industry, Larry and his team are awesome.

Brambor - I think the Felt Fat tire ebike might see production next year after the response at Interbike, I imagine some other brands might jump on board too. But if you're looking for a mountain bike, full suspension or hard tail Haibike seems to have the widest offering and their patented SES system is great for keeping the chain in line. I know you were interested in a belt drive though, so the Grace MX with the belt and Nuvinci could be a good place to look.

 

[Brambor]

The Grace MX is a beauty

 

[EddieJ]

Thanks Chris, it's certainly an annoying noise!

JoePah, this video will give you an idea of the noise. (not my bike)

 

[James]

I didn't even listen to the whole thing, it was so annoying. It makes that sound all the time??

 

[EddieJ]

Oddly not.

I've been out three times today and it hasn't made the noise at all.

I'll still have to pull it down to take a look though.

 

[Admin]

Hmm... Hope you can figure it out and find a fix Eddie. Thanks for the video share there.

 

[EddieJ]

Info about how to repair the motor can be found from this PDF

Hopefully I have uploaded it properly.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Just adding some info here.
I have no idea when BMW hits the US market, but here is a short clip.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the video Ravi, the shot at the end shows seven different bicycles from BMW! That's pretty impressive, I couldn't tell if they were all electric or not but either way, the focus on quality shows through the aesthetics. I liked the music in the video as well.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hi Court,
BMW is making some bikes not even ebikes !! can you believe that?
Here is a link to that shop and one can purchase a range of bikes.

http://shop.bmw.com/de_DE/content/specials/bikes-2014/lebensqualitaet

 

[Brambor]

So, I was just checking out the latest Grace MXII video:

And it got me thinking. With the Bosh system all the brands somewhat start to look the same so if you subtract the Bosh Equalizer what do you get for your money? By that definition (besides the belt drive) the Grace MXII seems to be overpriced to me.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

What is the cost of grace mx2?