Bosch owners, do you know this noise?

[mcmars]

I got pretty deep into this. I had communications with Performancelinebearings.com (Paul is awesome). After sending some photos we decided everything looked right. Many people told me it was normal, no one knew anything else to tell me, and I finally gave up. But guess what?

It's FIXED! I KNEW it was too darn loud, there's just no way it should sound like that! I wanted to sell the bike...

I started having some shifting problems and I couldn't get it properly indexed, so I took it to my mechanic. He found a minor cable routing issue, but most importantly he found that the chain was too long. He took out some links, and in addition to fixing my indexing issues, the SES pulley quieted by at least 75%. Apparently there wasn't enough tension on the chain and for whatever reason that was causing the excessive noise.

I can still hear that pulley a little, but NOTHING like before. I also do notice it gets a bit louder after a couple hours of riding so regular cleaning and lubrication is recommended (and Paul said not to use dry lube on bikes with SES, so I switched to Finish Line Wet).

I can't tell you how happy I am to have this figured out, it was really driving me nuts.

Thanks for this info, I will check my chain length.

 

[DanInStPete]

I don’t have any experience with chains and length. I would assume that a chain made for a system, such as NX Eagle which mine has, would be a standard length. It’s not something I would think to check.

Nor do I have any idea why a new bike would come with a chain that was too long. However, after having the bike on the stand for only a minute he said he thought it was too long, and 10 minutes later said it was definitely too long.

I just know that it fixed my indexing problem, and completely by accident solved my pulley noise issue.

 

[mcmars]

THe bike should be set up be the shop before they sell it. Manufacturers do the easy thing and install it long as the bike still works, but if they mess up and spec out bike with a short chain then it will not go into lowest gearing easy. for a 1X set up it is very simple to check, just put it into the biggest cog on rear , the lowest gearing, and the part of the derailer with the 2 pulleys should be stretched forward. If it is pointing straight down or to the rear than too many links. About a 45 degree forward angle is about right. Plenty of repair videos on line, like the Park ones to get a visual.

 

[DanInStPete]

Thanks for the info.

This is before and after for reference:

Before (and it was more obnoxious in person):

After (AHHHH):

 

[mcmars]

Thanks for the info.

This is before and after for reference:

Before (and it was more obnoxious in person):

After (AHHHH):

That is a big difference! My bike is loaded in my suburban for a trip, but will check it later today. I wonder what else they might have done, maybe a good driveline cleaning and lube? My haibike sounds like your first video, maybe even louder. I wrote performancelinebearing a week back about pricing out a replacement bearing for my shot bearing with only 200 miles. No word back yet. It seems like I should be able to pull old bearing and go to parts store for a sks replacement?

 

[Alaskan]

If you have a shot bearing at 200 miles, your bike is probably still under warranty. Just know that opening up the plastic cover on your Bosch motor will void your warranty, something I am sure you want to avoid. Better to take the bike into the shop for warranty repair. Let them figure out what is wrong, fix it and keep your warranty alive in case something more serious should arise.

 

[DanInStPete]

@Alaskan he means the bearing inside the SES jockey pulley. But I’m glad you mentioned that because I did not know it. I want to add a Bikespeed RS at some point for the street (worked great on my last Haibike). Of course that will probably void the warranty as well, if they can see it was installed.

I pulled my pulley off well before I had this figured out, cleaned it, and spread some grease around in there. The bearing inside seemed fine. If you do end up needing one you can order it from their website performancelinebearing.com. I think it’s $15 plus shipping.

As for my fix, all my mechanic did was fix a small cable routing issue amd remove some links from the chain. I also switched from Finish Line Dry to Wet.

 

[Alaskan]

@DanInStPete I have had the BikespeedRS installed in my 2018 Riese & Muller Delight Mountain for 14 months now and have put over 5,000 miles on it without a hitch. It took it from being a wonderful bike to being the best bike ever, with snappy performance, great accelleration, superb hill climbing and speed only limited by how fast I can spin. I have had it up to 44 miles per hour going down a long 4% grade with a a cadence of 115. The motor is a Bosch CX gen 2 and it has not even hiccupped in the 5,000 miles. Of course it my warranty has been voided but that was a risk worth taking.

In order to take advantage of the increased speed capability I had to change out the 15 tooth front chain ring to an 18 tooth chain ring. This brought my cadence down to 72 at 25mph in the highest gear which was the 11 tooth sprocket on the Shimano xt8000 11-42 tooth 11 speed cassette. In order to recapture some of the hill climbing ability (which definitely needed doing as the last two blocks going up to our house are a 17% climb) I changed out the cassette to the 11 speed 11-46 tooth version. Since then I have found that the Sunrace 11-46 shifts smoother, looks cooler, costs less than the Shimano and is fully compatible.

A final pointer if using the bikespeed dongle. DO NOT let your Bosch service tech update the motor firmware and Euro law is requiring them to include software to detect speed dongles. In the new for 2020 gen 4 motors it will actually brick the motor.

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[DanInStPete]

Thanks for that info @Alaskan, I'll probably go ahead and add the Bikespeed soon and see how it performs with NX Eagle.

I took a calculated risk with the Haibike due to the deal I got - internet purchase, Fedex delivery, I put it together, and I have a mechanic for anything I need, like that shifting problem. The risk of course being that if anything happens with the motor or controller it's going to be difficult. Anyway, I don't have to worry about anyone updating the firmware!

I think Bikespeed solved the bricking issue on the 2020 motors - I read on their website maybe a month ago that they had one with 1,000 miles on it with no problems.

I've been thinking I might have a Delite Mountain in my future. The FullSeven LT 9.0 is a similar bike though obviously not as upgraded (though, for the price, certainly a better value). I've considered it as a one-bike solution. Do you use tires that work well for trail and street?

 

[Alaskan]

Thanks for that info @Alaskan, I'll probably go ahead and add the Bikespeed soon and see how it performs with NX Eagle.

I took a calculated risk with the Haibike due to the deal I got - internet purchase, Fedex delivery, I put it together, and I have a mechanic for anything I need, like that shifting problem. The risk of course being that if anything happens with the motor or controller it's going to be difficult. Anyway, I don't have to worry about anyone updating the firmware!

I think Bikespeed solved the bricking issue on the 2020 motors - I read on their website maybe a month ago that they had one with 1,000 miles on it with no problems.

I've been thinking I might have a Delite Mountain in my future. The FullSeven LT 9.0 is a similar bike though obviously not as upgraded (though, for the price, certainly a better value). I've considered it as a one-bike solution. Do you use tires that work well for trail and street?

Funny you should ask about a good dual purpose tire. Here is a review I wrote a while back of a new Schwalbe tire that fits that description to a T .

New Favorite Tire - Schwalbe Hurricane

Schwalbe has come out with a new tire for 2020, the Hurricane. I have been riding on a pair for two weeks now. In the main, middle tread, the tire has ridges of micro knobs, similar to those found on skinny gravel tires, with a center strip of fine ridges. There are aggressive, bulky knobs at...

electricbikereview.com

 

[DanInStPete]

I really like that tire, though in my case running 27.5 Plus I need at least 2.6” for my rims. I have a new pair of Smart Sams, and I picked up a good tip from you on that thread about Tannus Armour. I’m going to order a pair, switch from tubeless to the Smart Sams with Armour, and test the one-bike thing to see how it goes.

 

[Alaskan]

On my Riese&Muller Delight Mountain I replaced the stock 2.6 Nobby Nicks with the 2.4 Hurricanes and haven't looked back. In the fall I put a set of SKS Blumel 75s on for the wet NW winter. The 2.4s fit better with the fenders.

 

[DanInStPete]

We're pretty far OT, moving to: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-lt-9-0-in-the-house.32706/page-2#post-274441

 

[mcmars]

I fixed my SES jockey pulley noise issue yesterday. My mechanic checked it out and confirmed the bearing was shot at 200 miles of riding. I am in SE Utah and the bearing was full of sand and felt very rough when spun in my hand after removal. Mechanic had a bearing in stock that pressed on just fine, it is a common size used for sealed bike hub bearings apparently, so no need to special order one from performanceline bearing. I still hear some minor noise, but nothing like before.

The chain length was good according to my mechanic as he said if we would have removed anything more than when the frame compresses, the chain would have been too tight. In lowest gearing, the derailer points close to straight down, so I was wrong about pointing at a 45 degree angle.

Incidentally, the reason I took bike in to shop was I developed some "ghost shifting" after a minor tumble where I hit some soft sandy dry silt that sunk and turned my front wheel at the bottom of a hill and it threw me to my left onto a sagebrush. I suspected the derailer hanger might have been bent somehow due to the incident as later the chain was over shifting to the spoke side of the cassette after my small tumble and the ghost shifting started to happen . I bought a spare derailer hanger from Wheels Manufacturing and had it in my pack, but just rode easy to finish my ride. MY mechanic confirmed my suspicion that somehow the hanger got tweaked even though I did not crash hard or even land onto the derailer. He said the OEM haibike hanger was cheap soft pot metal and is why it bent so easy. I am going to order another wheels manufacturing hanger for my pack and trash the old soft OEM hanger. I thought other haibike owners who ride rough trails might want to be aware to carry a good spare hanger so they do not get in trouble with a broken hanger.

And the other thing he found was my suspension bolts where pretty loose. I had checked and tightened up a bunch of bolts on the frame recently, but I missed the rear suspension bolts. He said one was so loose, the circlip was only thing holding it together. Hope this helps others to remember to check all the bolts all the time. I ride a lot of slick rock, maybe on soft dirt this would not be happening.

 

[DanInStPete]

That's great info, thanks for posting. I've heard of those bearings going that fast, it's really surprising. I've also heard of them lasting a couple thousand miles. Were there any symptoms other than noise that the bearing was shot?

Now that you mention it I need to check my chain length on the big ring and make sure I have enough for the suspension.

Also good idea on the Wheels Manufacturing hangar, I'm going order an extra just in case.

 

[mcmars]

That's great info, thanks for posting. I've heard of those bearings going that fast, it's really surprising. I've also heard of them lasting a couple thousand miles. Were there any symptoms other than noise that the bearing was shot?

Now that you mention it I need to check my chain length on the big ring and make sure I have enough for the suspension.

Also good idea on the Wheels Manufacturing hangar, I'm going order an extra just in case.

The bearing was noisy and still has some noise, but what got me wondering about it was one day I was cleaning up the chainline and removed the chain guide around the SES sprocket and spun the bearing with my finger. It felt like a sloppy dry bushing, so that got me wondering and after some researching, I found out it was a bearing, so I knew something was bad. The sand is everywhere here and the seals to protect that bearing must be pretty poor. Hopefully the new one will be a better design and will keep the sand out better.

I looked to see where I got the hanger last fall and I got it on Ebay from a seller out of N CA for a great price and it fit fine and is a high quality hanger. It is half price of Wheels Manufacturing. I am getting another one for my pack. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Derailleur...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[DanInStPete]

Ebay from a seller out of N CA

Nice, thanks for the link.

 

[T.i.g]

@DanInStPete My 2018 Full Seven has also the noise and i've shortened all chains myself to the same length as the first chain when the bike was new. Maybe my chain has also not enough tension. Could you take a picture of your derailleur when its on the largest cog and post it? Just to see if there is any noticeable tension difference between yours and mine. This is how my derailleur looks on the largest cog.

 

[mcmars]

@DanInStPete My 2018 Full Seven has also the noise and i've shortened all chains myself to the same length as the first chain when the bike was new. Maybe my chain has also not enough tension. Could you take a picture of your derailleur when its on the largest cog and post it? Just to see if there is any noticeable tension difference between yours and mine. This is how my derailleur looks on the largest cog.

View attachment 59892

That looks just like how my mechanic set up my chain length, my bike is not with me, but going from memory it is same. Every bike will be a bit different due to differences in how the suspension is designed, but a good mechanic will know how to set up chain length for different bikes. I believe a sure fired way to know is to remove all the air or spring tension and then compress the frame. If the chain is so tight as to restrict the travel, then the chain is too short.

 

[DanInStPete]

@T.i.g Just saw this, yes I will see if I can get a photo tomorrow.