Bosch Nyon system abandoned?

[BlackHand]

Dont really use Komoot, but I think you get that behavior when Ebike Connect is set to sync trips instead of rides.

Confirmed today. Mine was set to 'trips' and was missing Friday's commute home. Changed it to 'rides' and went to church and Komoot got Fridays ride and this mornings.

I believe Strava will sync trips properly after 4(?) hours when the last ride times out. I usually manually sync Strava when I get home (via web portal since the app doesnt have this feature) while Im think about it so I cant say for sure.

 

[peterh_nz]

Dont really use Komoot, but I think you get that behavior when Ebike Connect is set to sync trips instead of rides.

Confirmed today. Mine was set to 'trips' and was missing Friday's commute home. Changed it to 'rides' and went to church and Komoot got Fridays ride and this

Yes, I agree. The options each perform as described in the setup.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What is the difference between a "trip" and a "ride"? How do you "complete a trip"?

 

[BlackHand]

So the last trip I posted riding around Whidbey Island consisted of 4 'rides' because there were 3 times when my bike was stopped for more than 10 minutes but less than 4 hours.

If I had my Nyon set to sync after every ride that would have shown up as 4 activities in Strava.

It works reasonably well. I prefer the automatic and near instant syncing of 'rides', but usually leave it set to sync 'trips' to avoid the above scenario.

What is a trip, how is a ride defined and what does the daily summary mean?​

In eBike Connect, a trip is the term for rides with your eBike recorded with the help of Nyon or the eBike Connect app and Kiox. A trip can consist of one or more rides.
An eBike ride begins as soon as you switch on your eBike system and start pedaling and ends after you stop pedaling or switch off your eBike system (or your eBike is automatically switched off) or when the eBike is not moved for more than 10 minutes.
The preset automatic daily summary of your individual eBike rides can be deactivated in the Nyon or Kiox settings. You can also set an automatic reset after four hours of inactivity or you can manually reset it, based on what you want to track. For more information FAQ.
The following requirements must be met for an activity to be saved:

• An active GPS connection
• A minimum activity length of 100 meters (approx. 110 yards)
• A start and end of the activity

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sorry for being harsh but how in the earth Bosch E-Bike could even think it could make something even remotely resembling a Wahoo or Garmin or Karoo2?

I admit I do not use Specialized Mission Control for ride recording (and Specialized -- fortunately -- has even not tried to implement GPS navigation in their system) but at least Turbo e-bikes fully connect to bike GPS computers via LEV ANT+ (same with Giant). My total trip time might be 12 hours with several long stops, and I get my full trip data on Strava, Komoot and RWGPS immediately post ride...

 

[BlackHand]

Sorry for being harsh but how in the earth Bosch E-Bike could even think it could make something even remotely resembling a Wahoo or Garmin or Karoo2?

I admit I do not use Specialized Mission Control for ride recording (and Specialized -- fortunately -- has even not tried to implement GPS navigation in their system) but at least Turbo e-bikes fully connect to bike GPS computers via LEV ANT+ (same with Giant). My total trip time might be 12 hours with several long stops, and I get my full trip data on Strava, Komoot and RWGPS immediately post ride...

So do I (well not in RWGPS).

And does the Wahoo or Garmin or Karoo2 magically know when you are 'done' with your trip vs just on another long stop? I'm guessing you have to hit finish.

I do the same thing in the ebike connect portal and have the whole trip synced immediately. It could be implemented better, sure, but it's a total of 4 clicks to get into the portal, select the trip, hit the menu, and sync the whole trip to Strava.

For most people, most of the time, leaving it set to sync rides works just fine and is automatic and immediate. Would work for me most of the time, but I would rather manually end my ride/trip(or let it do its thing automatically when I start my next ride) than change the setting back and forth in the app as needed for longer full day rides.

All devices have their quirks, most of the Nyon's are to me minor UI or localization bugs. In 2500+ miles I had to reconnect bluetooth once and I had 1 ride that lost GPS lock for about 10 minutes which caused the ride map to look wrong although the data recorded properly.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm guessing you have to hit finish.

Of course!

I was wondering why the things were so hard for Vim, and also read your description of "rides" vs. "trips". Wahoo etc simply Auto-Pause on stops. Mission Control upon being disconnected from the e-bike simply asks "Continue or End?" If you do nothing, MC reconnects to the e-bike. If any of these devices/apps worked like Nyon then I would have many rides on my trip of yesterday

 

[BlackHand]

Of course!

I was wondering why the things were so hard for Vim, and also read your description of "rides" vs. "trips". Wahoo etc simply Auto-Pause on stops. Mission Control upon being disconnected from the e-bike simply asks "Continue or End?" If you do nothing, MC reconnects to the e-bike.

So if you dont answer MC and then get up the next morning and get on your bike are you continuing the same ride? Surely it times out at some point?

If any of these devices/apps worked like Nyon then I would have many rides on my trip of yesterday

Sure, but they would all sync to Strava as 1 activity. In my example above I can look at the ride data for any individual ride as well as for the whole trip in the Bosch sw. What gets synced externally is EITHER each ride or the whole trip depending on my settings. Otherwise it causes problems with Strava/Komoot etc.

My experience is pretty limited but every system I've tried so far has its own issues or necessary workarounds with pausing/resuming rides or ending them. A 6 mile ferry ride at pedelec speeds can throw wrinkles in ride tracking. The Bosch system handles it as well as any I've tried.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Surely it times out at some point?

Cannot say as I hardly use MC. The main reason is MC would sap the phone battery. I only use MC on unexpected rides requiring the use of Smart Control.

It is Wahoo in my case. With Wahoo, in case you Pause it but make sure the device is on (so you need to keep it charged, from e.g. a powerbank, on a two day trip) then it is a single ride. If you switch the device off but you restart it within 4 hours then your current ride is restored and continued. If you don't restart the Wahoo, the next ride is started.

As I got aware how it worked, my longest recorded ride has been around 27 hours gross (including an overnight stay), 163 miles.

Sure, but they would all sync to Strava as 1 activity. In my example above I can look at the ride data for any individual ride as well as for the whole trip in the Bosch sw. What gets synced externally is EITHER each ride or the whole trip depending on my settings. Otherwise it causes problems with Strava/Komoot etc.

Thank you for your clarification!

A 6 mile ferry ride at pedelec speeds can throw wrinkles in ride tracking.

Well, depending on the situation, I either keep recording or Pause the recording for the ferry trip duration. Still Wahoo.

 

[Vim Fuego]

It's to do with Trips mode. If I want to batch rides into trip, this bug occurs.

If you aren't seeing it, I suspect you are in Rides mode.

 

[peterh_nz]

It's to do with Trips mode. If I want to batch rides into trip, this bug occurs.

Is it really a bug? Surely it's doing as designed.. see my screenshots above.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Is it really a bug? Surely it's doing as designed.. see my screenshots above.

Absolutely a bug. Perhaps if you use your bike daily, you will never encounter it. If you have gaps in your usage, you don't see your last trip until you do a new trip.

As your individual rides have already been uploaded, having a scheduled script that batches and forwards on anything in the server queue that's older than a day is trivial intern programming nonsense. How it's still broken after a year shows how unloved the Bosch system is by Bosch themselves.

 

[Vim Fuego]

That's not my experience with synchronisation between Komoot and Ebike-connect/Nyon.

What is your mobile phone operating system?

Also, what are your Komoot synchronisation settings in Ebike-connect?

Does a completed trip on the Nyon have time to synchronise with Ebike-connect before the Nyon is turned off?

It's all uploaded to ebike connect, however it waits for other trips, if you are in trips mode. The issue is that it waits indefinitely.. and only knows a trip is finished when a new one is synced.

Feels like it was very poorly designed.

 

[FierceKitten]

Maps even older, Nov '21

I have a 2014 Nyon and it just got a map update within the last three months. The 2021 Nyon should still be getting regular map updates, at least once a year. I would definitely ask Bosch about it if you can. Also, if you haven't already, try resetting the Nyon and deleting and reinstalling the app on your phone. Perhaps you have a faulty unit? I hope you get it figured out!

As a side note, I think it's a big misstep by Bosch that their new Smart System doesn't support the '21 Nyon.

 

[Pearson]

I was very disappointed with Bosch customer service. My Nyon which I have enjoyed since 2018 requested a software update in July this year. After the update the Nyon would not work, it just indicated that that there was no battery on the ebike and would not provide power.
Bosch customer service said if the Nyon had been less than 5 years old they might replace it but in their words "after 5 years there is no good will".

First I thought it might be an internal battery failure in the Nyon. I found it is really easy to replace the internal battery, it is not soldered in as the Intuvia battery is. It is the same Lithium battery as used in many compact digital cameras.

However this did not solve my problem. Then I found that by plugging a powerbank into the USB socket I could make it work!
Finally I found it doesn't need a permanent external battery.
When I start up I just have to plug a device into the USB socket for two seconds and it will work until I remove the Nyon from the bike or stop for more than about 5 minutes. So it is not too bad.

I hope this helps others.

Colin

 

[fooferdoggie]

I was very disappointed with Bosch customer service. My Nyon which I have enjoyed since 2018 requested a software update in July this year. After the update the Nyon would not work, it just indicated that that there was no battery on the ebike and would not provide power.
Bosch customer service said if the Nyon had been less than 5 years old they might replace it but in their words "after 5 years there is no good will".

First I thought it might be an internal battery failure in the Nyon. I found it is really easy to replace the internal battery, it is not soldered in as the Intuvia battery is. It is the same Lithium battery as used in many compact digital cameras.

However this did not solve my problem. Then I found that by plugging a powerbank into the USB socket I could make it work!
Finally I found it doesn't need a permanent external battery.
When I start up I just have to plug a device into the USB socket for two seconds and it will work until I remove the Nyon from the bike or stop for more than about 5 minutes. So it is not too bad.

I hope this helps others.

Colin

yes the battery is just to start up the nyon then its bike battery powered. even the newer nyon is the same way. mine was not charging on the bike and on the coldest day it was dead had to jump start it to get going.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have a 2014 Nyon and it just got a map update within the last three months. The 2021 Nyon should still be getting regular map updates, at least once a year. I would definitely ask Bosch about it if you can. Also, if you haven't already, try resetting the Nyon and deleting and reinstalling the app on your phone. Perhaps you have a faulty unit? I hope you get it figured out!

As a side note, I think it's a big misstep by Bosch that their new Smart System doesn't support the '21 Nyon.

they are totally different. they will have a new nyon out that fits the smart system.

 

[peterh_nz]

However this did not solve my problem. Then I found that by plugging a powerbank into the USB socket I could make it work!

Would a "factory" reset of the Nyon be worth trying?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Would a "factory" reset of the Nyon be worth trying?

yes I have to do it once in awhile. big mistake I found is using the sane Nyon on more then one bike. it seems to work till the Nyon starts getting buggy. but its battery may just be shot.

 

[FierceKitten]

I was very disappointed with Bosch customer service. My Nyon which I have enjoyed since 2018 requested a software update in July this year. After the update the Nyon would not work, it just indicated that that there was no battery on the ebike and would not provide power.
Bosch customer service said if the Nyon had been less than 5 years old they might replace it but in their words "after 5 years there is no good will".

First I thought it might be an internal battery failure in the Nyon. I found it is really easy to replace the internal battery, it is not soldered in as the Intuvia battery is. It is the same Lithium battery as used in many compact digital cameras.

However this did not solve my problem. Then I found that by plugging a powerbank into the USB socket I could make it work!
Finally I found it doesn't need a permanent external battery.
When I start up I just have to plug a device into the USB socket for two seconds and it will work until I remove the Nyon from the bike or stop for more than about 5 minutes. So it is not too bad.

I hope this helps others.

Colin

That's horrible that a software update basically broke your Nyon! I'm glad you found a workaround, but still, I would be so mad! I really hope that your case is an isolated incident. Thank you for sharing.