Bosch ebike system reliability

[Bike_On]

View attachment 2844

Misuse: there you go.

Don't be a wimp. Can't always control mud on the trail. Mtn bikers do it all the time.

 

[stevenast]

Lol, I will be a whimp.

 

[J.R.]

eBikes would be useless for recreation or transport if they weren't watertight. Few things in life are guaranteed perfect, I wouldn't own an ebike if I couldn't commute with it in a serious driving rain or a muddy trail. No one guaranties me perfect commuting weather. Most of the current range of ebikes discussed here or EBR are weather resistant (watertight) and Bosch is one I wouldn't hesitate to ride on any day of any week. It's far more detrimental to the brand to suggest it can't take the weather, when all signs and experience say it can.

 

[stevenast]

Agreed: water resistant, not water proof. Mud resistant, not mud proof.

If you go over that line, it's your call, have fun! It is also your dollars for the repairs.

Applies to ANY brand e-bike.

 

[Brambor]

I get caught in the rain from time to time and thank the bike for being protected but I don't choose to bike in rain deliberately. I applaud the confidence and perhaps my lack of confidence is unwarranted. I just know that a brand new bike and a two year old bike with thousands of miles on it will differ in their susceptibility to water. It sort of reminds me of buying waterproof neoprene gloves for winter sea kayaking. They are totally dry for the first 10 or so outing but then slowly the stitches loosen up, the seams get stressed due to the stretching during usage and the UV rays start to affect the fabric...and the gloves start to leak.

 

[J.R.]

I get caught in the rain from time to time and thank the bike for being protected but I don't choose to bike in rain deliberately. I applaud the confidence and perhaps my lack of confidence is unwarranted. I just know that a brand new bike and a two year old bike with thousands of miles on it will differ in their susceptibility to water. It sort of reminds me of buying waterproof neoprene gloves for winter sea kayaking. They are totally dry for the first 10 or so outing but then slowly the stitches loosen up, the seams get stressed due to the stretching during usage and the UV rays start to affect the fabric...and the gloves start to leak.

I would have to agree with that sentiment, for me it's winter MC clothing. That being said I don't want, what may happen to dictate what I do. I believe you and I had this conversation 6 months ago about these ebikes being disposable forms of transport. I don't want to hasten that end and since my bike is far more modest than yours and I'm planning on a replacement at the end of the year, so maybe it's easier for me to say that.

 

[Bike_On]

Agreed: water resistant, not water proof. Mud resistant, not mud proof.

If you go over that line, it's your call, have fun! It is also your dollars for the repairs.

Applies to ANY brand e-bike.

Any avid mtn biker, who like off road, all terrain, expecting mud and water, head to toe, knows he/she has to clean and maintain their bike and gear. Such a rider will expect an off road ebike to do the same, less deep water holes, and expect to clean and maintain. This includes the known/accepted risk of faster wear and tear on the bike.

However, if he buys a bike with a Bosch mid drive and small chain ring sprocket, the evidence appears to suggest his risk of damage will increase if he rides like his "normal" mtn biking. If he buys an ebike with a large sprocket, like E3 Peak, Focus Thron or Optibike, he won't have that added risk and he can enjoy his ride with less worry of damage. He will still wear his bike faster due to the conditions, but accepts that part of enjoying the bike and sport.

Where is the line where our repair dollars start to multiply? From this thread, I hope we see better that the line is different for each bike, depending upon the design and quality of the bike. Bosch bikes will have issues in heavy mud. Other ebikes won't. It is that simple.

 

[NoDTMF]

I was going to stay out out this, but I think we are losing perspective.

1) Any normal bike sucks in heavy mud
2)I will bet a dollar, that every ebike will have its own idiosyncrasy's with regard to harsh conditions. i.e. a sustained long hill is hard on hub drives, as is fixing a rear flat. Bosch mid-drives have a chain stuck issue in heavy mud.
3)Learn the idiosyncrasy's of your bike for harsh conditions, adjust, and you'll be fine.

That said, I would expect to take any ebike and fall over in a creek, pick it up and it will get me home. Once home maintenance will be needed.

I have submerged many a dirtbike in my time. Pull the plug , kick the water out and off we go. But I know I need to check things out when I get back.

Another anecdote: The proper way to use a 4 wheel drive vehicle when off road is to leave it in 2 wheel drive. If you get stuck put it in 4 wheel drive and back out. So simple, but its amazing how people I have found on the trail stuck up to their axles cause they went in with 4wd on (and they thought they were bullet proof)

 

[stevenast]

in constant mud conditions.

 

[stevenast]

Can't always control mud on the trail.

 

[stevenast]

expecting mud

 

[stevenast]

If mud isn't a concern, then it is no issue at all.

There is already a thread on the mud issue, please sling your mud there

http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/a-couple-of-bosch-drive-system-issues.1167/

 

[Bike_On]

Steve,

Your last post on the link provided sent this discussion to this thread... I'll go back and post my final comments over in the mud section.

I find it interesting that you still divert away from the claims being presented that the Bosch Mid drive/small sprocket has an application issue if used as a MTN bike on *mud* trails.

Oh well, denial.

There is already a thread on the mud issue, please sling your mud there

http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/a-couple-of-bosch-drive-system-issues.1167/

 

[stevenast]

*mud*

 

[Mags]

On the flip side.

Bosch are now offering free replacement motors for the classic line. Many of us suffered problems with the motor, myself included.

Classic line motors suffered from the chain frequently jumping off, and this is rumoured to be why the switch to a smaller sprocket came about. Whether that is true or not I don't know, but my old motor certainly used to loose the chain alot.

The performance line motor has an across board issue with chain suck in wet or sticky conditions, this includes mine. I have now remedied this myself.

The main German pedelec forum reports Nyon bezels breaking without any interference, this has also happened to mine, but thankfully Bosch were quick to replace this under warranty.

The plastic cover behind the front sprocket is also only stuck on with adhesive. Mine has torn off, so leaving the motor partially exposed.

Increasing numbers of Nyon users are suffering software issues, and are reportedly giving up on the system. I'm also giving up on it, but mine is for the sole reason that it isn't designed for mtb use. What use is a widescreen television on an mtb. It's too big and vulnerable to be of any use off road. I've had no software issues, but I haven't carried out any updates, which is when the problems appear to start.

As Court has shown in another thread, several mtb users are concerned about water sitting in the battery tray. That is also a concern of mine, as the contacts are seemingly always wet after a ride.

I'm also not totally convinced that the performance motor has the correct internal gearing for mtb use. There is something amiss with it, as there is the requirement to use lower final drive gearing than what should really be required or expected.

Personally I feel that if Bosch don't up their game, they will fall by the way side to Yamaha, possibly Shimano, and even 8fun, although I have yet to try or see the last two systems. Given the choice with it's larger front sprocket, neater design and stronger looking build quality, the Yamaha would get my vote every time.

Plus side..

Bosch have done the right thing by offering replacement motors, but quite why it has taken so long is beyond me. I guess that just have a pile of new old stock motors to shift.

Technical support is growing, and Bosch do appear to offer superb technical support and training. That could be the spanner in the works for my previously mentioned motors. Time will tell.

Hi Eddie.
I am having a huge problem with chain suck om my cube bike fitted with a bosch performance line. You say you have remedied this problem.
What have you done to solve it?
I only ride on-road and wet conditions = chain suck.
My best guess is to replace the front 15T sprocket with the 20T...

 

[David Jones]

Hi, newbie, I've got a 2014 Corratec 29er Trekking Diamond (Perf, 400, Alfine)
http://www.reidcycles.com.au/corratec-29er-trekking-performance-ebike.html

Came here looking for tips on prep for the MTB reliability, issues/repairs to consider, and auxiliary battery do's/don'ts.

It's hardly had any use, just testing use, I've not got to use it as a winter commuter bike as intended, since my job ended and the commute with it.

I'm now about to put on some 29 x 2.10 Maxxis CrossMark EXO tubeless tyres, do a tubeless conversion, and put 32Ah of auxiliary batteries (4 x 6S LiPo 16Ah cells in 12S2P) in the frame diamond.
I'm hoping to cross long metro city distances to get to where the offroad gravel fire trails etc. are and visit some of the road/trail places I've been on road trail motorcyles and 4WDs.
Then if proven within metro 12hr radius, cover a long distance tour in a compressed time over the summer break, in dry high 30degC to low 40degC weather.

I did an urban test ride of it comparing it to a light Fat-MTB I had been riding in the same places the fortnight prior. It did well, except for the speed limit frustrating the ride.

 

[EddieJ]

Hi Eddie.
I am having a huge problem with chain suck om my cube bike fitted with a bosch performance line. You say you have remedied this problem.
What have you done to solve it?
I only ride on-road and wet conditions = chain suck.
My best guess is to replace the front 15T sprocket with the 20T...

Hi Mags, sorry for not replying sooner.

Not sure if I have already replied to this on Pedelecs forum, but the easiest way to prevent it is to engage the clutch on the rear mech/derailleur if you have one. If you don't already have one, then it is worth changing. Just make sure that you get the correct cage length.

It could also be that the front sprocket is slightly worn. I'd recommend flipping it every couple of hundred miles.

Changing from 15t to 20T is a very big leap in gearing. By memory, you are going from a conventional 37t to a 50t

Interestingly it has been a very long time since I have suffered from chain suck. It might be coincidence, as I can't see how it could make a difference, but changing to a KMC chain has I believe a part to play in it.

 

[wren]

Bosch is still the most reliable ebike system on the planet - see the original post. Also watch this interview with Court's uncle - apparently it goes through chains about every 800 miles for him, which is not a negative of Bosch, and actually speaks to the power of the system.

 

[BurbManDan]

I agree Bosch is a good system. That said, I've been finding that the motors typically last about 7000 miles in all weather, year round, mostly paved commuting. What are others seeing?

 

[NoDTMF]

What breaks? I would assume bearings.....