Best mid drive motor under 500 Dollars?

[harryS]

I've only had one guy scam me on aliexpress, and it was my fault. I let the dispute window expire while he sent me emails. If the dispute is entered, and you have a good case on video, Aliexpress rules in the buyers favor. I found buying from China quite safe, and economical, but tariffs have ruined that,

I am impressed by my DM02, even if you're not. I had it in turbo mode the other day, and my TSDZ2/OSF never pulled like that. Nonetheless, it's a 14A motor and the newer BBS02 are 20A, so if you have a heavy load, more power is better.

When you have N+1 ebikes, you do think about the costs. A Johnny Nerdout uart BBS02 is maybe $100-140 more than what I paid in 2023. I had the choice then of a TSDZ2 for $260 or the BBS02B for $400, but it was for a friend's bike. I knew he wouldn't care about the torque sensor experience, plus he expected the bike to be like my BBS02B that he had ridden. What's 100 bucks these days.

Two of these cost me 44 bucks with milk shakes. Meanwhile. I'm paying $55 for a 26: wheel with a disk brake hub to upgrade my wife;s bike,

 

[Bob.A]

You do not need to reply to this, but just as a consideration; what is your time worth to you per hour? What level of support, reputation, and accountability do you want? Make sure that all prices include customs, taxes and shipping, and that nothing is hidden, because they will do that, and your motor will be held hostage unless you pay another $65 ransom. Is there a real person who knows what they are talking about to assist you on the phone in English and in a local time zone? Are the components really compatible or is there a meter long wire that translates to a half-meter wire to connect something? Like having a local bookstore or bike shop, does having someone like Johnny around contribute something worthwhile to you?

I'm retired and this is a hobby, so I guess I could say my time is free. I have been putzing with mechanical things my whole life and I have a fairly good IT background as well so I don't generally need handholding from paid sources. I have a pretty well equipped shop and can fabricate some bits and pieces if I need to. So I probably dont need a store like JN or Electrify bike to sell me the same motor and parts for higher costs with the idea that they will help me out of a jam.

What does matter though is that I get what I want without having to order lots of extra bits later that jack up the total cost. Like trying to put a large chainring on a tsdz8 and finding out the only source of a spyder that will work will cost me 70 bucks since it is only available from one source in Europe. I can't say I know everything so that is why I post online to make sure I'm not missing something. Issues like the can bus changeover on the bafangs and not being able to cheaply reprogram them fall under that category. That was all new to me before I started down this projects path.

This particular bike may be my last conversion as I'm running out of room to store them. It wont get the same number of miles as the other three unless I find I really enjoy riding it. So far I'm finding that I like it more than I thought I would just looking at pictures of it. Its a heavy little thing especially considering its all aluminum. Its also different enough from the other bikes to keep me interested, I don't need two of the same thing to take up space.

At this point I'll either go with the DM02 from JN, ordered with the high end display and a 52t already fitted for 427 or..

I cross my fingers and go with a tsdz2 from Ali for about 270 and another 50 for a spyder and chainring. Both are 500w, torque sensing motors so ultimately the performance should be about the same.

 

[Bob.A]

For the DM02, I just had that bike in the garage to see about putting a 48t ring on it. For the life of me I could not get the notched nut off to remove the spyder and that bike probably doesnt even have 10 miles on it with the motor. As it is, I think the performance is fine especially since the target audience is my wife who is not a cyclist at all. A bit of extra push and simplicity in operation are what is needed.

 

[PedalUma]

I'm retired and this is a hobby, so I guess I could say my time is free. I have been putzing with mechanical things my whole life and I have a fairly good IT background as well so I don't generally need handholding from paid sources. I have a pretty well equipped shop and can fabricate some bits and pieces if I need to. So I probably dont need a store like JN or Electrify bike to sell me the same motor and parts for higher costs with the idea that they will help me out of a jam.

What does matter though is that I get what I want without having to order lots of extra bits later that jack up the total cost. Like trying to put a large chainring on a tsdz8 and finding out the only source of a spyder that will work will cost me 70 bucks since it is only available from one source in Europe. I can't say I know everything so that is why I post online to make sure I'm not missing something. Issues like the can bus changeover on the bafangs and not being able to cheaply reprogram them fall under that category. That was all new to me before I started down this projects path.

This particular bike may be my last conversion as I'm running out of room to store them. It wont get the same number of miles as the other three unless I find I really enjoy riding it. So far I'm finding that I like it more than I thought I would just looking at pictures of it. Its a heavy little thing especially considering its all aluminum. Its also different enough from the other bikes to keep me interested, I don't need two of the same thing to take up space.

At this point I'll either go with the DM02 from JN, ordered with the high end display and a 52t already fitted for 427 or..

I cross my fingers and go with a tsdz2 from Ali for about 270 and another 50 for a spyder and chainring. Both are 500w, torque sensing motors so ultimately the performance should be about the same.

Again, on those torque sensing motors you do not need a new spider. I have in my hand a Deckas 110 bcd narrow/wide chainring that is 48-t. It will bolt right on because it is a 5 bolt. Adding spacers will bring in the line.

 

[Mike_V]

All this because: Without building your eBike no less riding it once with any chainring;
You're overarching concern is reprogramming some minor setting to fine tune the cadence after macro tuning the chain ring and sprockets
OK type and mail order and then wrench and then program and then type and then..ride

 

[Bob.A]

All this because: Without building your eBike no less riding it once with any chainring;
You're overarching concern is reprogramming some minor setting to fine tune the cadence after macro tuning the chain ring and sprockets
OK type and mail order and then wrench and then program and then type and then..ride

I guess you didnt bother to look at all the posts in this thread. I've ridden the bike, I've built several others using similar components and wheel size so I know what will work. At this stage tweaking should be minimal with the right parts.

I've run a bafang with the factory programming and it tends to be very "Hot" even on the lower levels, so the ability to reprogram that particular motor is important. The other brands do not have that issue, if anything they tend to be fairly weak on the low levels.

 

[PedalUma]

The DM02 comes with a very nice chainring that has the profile of a pie pan. It brings in the chainline. To better hit low gear. With 42 teeth on the ring to an 11-t rear cog and 28 inch tires top speed is 25 at a cadence of 80. I set the motor to cut out at a cadene of 110. At a cadence of 100 it will do about 32 mph. That is plenty for me. I have big hills so climbing is more important than top speed. The legal limit for eBikes in California is 28.

 

[harryS]

I cross my fingers and go with a tsdz2 from Ali for about 270 and another 50 for a spyder and chainring. Both are 500w, torque sensing motors so ultimately the performance should be about the same.

I was riding my TsdZ2 yesterday and thinking how nice it was, even if the DM02 is stronger, Dick Tracy approved.



In my opinion, Tongsheng sure is stingy about doling out power for old men, but that's why I have OSF. I should mention that electrifybike.com used to sell TSDZ2B's with OSF, but they lost money supporting the warranty and had to stop, I've had good luck with mine, but I never use turbo.

For an extra 100 bucks. you can avoid the programming hassle, but the new DM02's have been reined in a bit as far as power. Not owning a new one, I can't comment.

There's a lot more than just a better power delivery in the DM02 though, The T-24 display shows voltage, current, and watts. My engineer senses need that, None of that with the VLDC5 on the pswpower kit, although there are better color displays for the TSDZ2 that do that too,

 

[EMGX]

These clamp onto the frame. The axle provides some support. but it's up to the user to make a more permanent install.
View attachment 201677
What I do is cut a slot so the axle can slide in and out, and tie the blue part to the frame, with tapped holes. It's much like making a torque arm.

If one could weld, it's aluminum.

Instead of a weld on adapter I gave one of these a try. With a bit of modificiation it fit and seems like it'll do the job. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Bob.A]

I've been looking for a motor for this bike and wanted to keep it on the cheaper side and while I would have liked a Bafang or T0seven I was ok with a Tsdz2. About ten days ago I checked online and one vendor had one for 50 off, so I crossed my fingers and ordered it. With all the discounts it came to 250 bucks, and that is with the EKD01 display. The motor came today with the box and the motor marked Varstrom, though that was not the seller. In any case I opened it up and pluged everything together and it looks like it's working fine.

I attached the 52t chainring I had ordered previously. The bolts holding the original on were a bit stiff and it took some vice grips on the back side to keep them from spinning. The new chain ring came with its own set which looked to be a bit better quality anyway.

I'll start work on the bike tomorrow, hoping it will go quickly, again fingers crossed.

 

[PedalUma]

I've been looking for a motor for this bike and wanted to keep it on the cheaper side and while I would have liked a Bafang or T0seven I was ok with a Tsdz2. About ten days ago I checked online and one vendor had one for 50 off, so I crossed my fingers and ordered it. With all the discounts it came to 250 bucks, and that is with the EKD01 display. The motor came today with the box and the motor marked Varstrom, though that was not the seller. In any case I opened it up and pluged everything together and it looks like it's working fine.

View attachment 202476
Do you want a pro tip?

There are two stainless screws. Take a 1.5 inch wide strip of old innertube that is 3.5 inches long and cut an oval out of its center. Wrap the smaller stainless mounting screw with that and finish it with electrical tape. Place it on the upper front of the motor and lever the motor from behind up and against the down tube as you tighten the left side lock ring at the bottom bracket. This is so much better that using the provided mounting system. And you can keep your center kickstand.

I attached the 52t chainring I had ordered previously. The bolts holding the original on were a bit stiff and it took some vice grips on the back side to keep them from spinning. The new chain ring came with its own set which looked to be a bit better quality anyway.

View attachment 202477

I'll start work on the bike tomorrow, hoping it will go quickly, again fingers crossed.

 

[Bob.A]

I've been working on this project for several days and I think it its pretty much complete. I made a battery mount out of some 3" aluminum angle and secured it to the frame with stainless U bolts. This is similar to what I did on a couple of other bikes. Fairly cheap and very sturdy, maybe a bit heavier that what is commercially available, but it works for me. I took it off yesterday and painted it black to match.

I had gotten a cheap set of plastic fenders off Amazon and the front worked fine but I had issues with the rear fender. It was mounted to the swing arm and with a good bump it would move the fender into the tire and start to rub it. The design of the bike is weird enough that I doubt they ever fitted fenders to it. But a bike without fenders is just not civilized so I took an old steel fender I had from the Greenspeed trike and fitted it to the rear on the main frame.

So on this fender I mounted a couple of stainless cable clamps and made a U out of some stainless corner braces. I secured the cable clamps with some hose clamps with some heat shrink to keep it from doing too much damage to the paint. Same with the rear U, I used a hose clamp with heat shrink. On a couple of short runs it seems to be working fine, no evidence of the tire hitting it and it is very solid.

On the first couple of test rides, I noticed the motor display was a bit more optomistic than the bike GPS. I had set the wheel diameter to 20. I went back in and set it down to 19 and it was better but still high, 18 seems to be the sweet spot, within a half MPH give or take. I still need to mount an extension for the speed sensor and put a better kickstand on it, but I'm very pleased with how it turned out. It can cruise easily at 15 and seems to max out at around 18. If I fitted a larger chainring up front than I could get a bit more speed out of it, but I think I'll just run it like it is. Handling is very nice, much more nimble than a typical LWB recumbent and the cushy tire in the rear with suspension makes for a smooth ride.

Total cost for the project is about 560 give or take. 250 for the bike, 250 for the motor, about 50 in parts and materials. I have two identical batteries that can be used on 4 bikes since they all use the same mount. Recumbents these days are incredibally cheap considering how expensive they were when new. I guess it's a bit of an aquired taste, but at this stage I would be hard pressed to want to ride anything else.

 

[harryS]

Looks pretty comfortable. My wife has been knocked off her seat by black walnuts and pine cones twice this Fall. I should keep an eye out for a Sun recumbent trike in the future.

 

[kevinmccune]

I heard that China has something like 6 times the manufacturing capacity of North America and the EU combined. Domestically there, potential consumers are not spending, so to keep their economy afloat and employment up they must export even at super low-fat margarines. And yes, Bosch and Brose have factories there that make bike motors and batteries, so when someone disparages Chinese stuff, slap them with that. This is worthy of a fact check first when talking to the Eastern EU potato eater's guy and that ilk of circular jerks.

View attachment 201802

I like butter,the " moo the better"!

 

[PCeBiker]

I like butter,the " moo the better"!

Well, as long as you're the one getting the butter

I ended up spending $100 extra to get a UART mid-drive BBS02B with a 100mm BB.

So my UART BBS02B ended up costing $591 CAD with the fancy display and no battery.

I ended having to get the 750W UART version because it was the only one that I could find with a 100mm Bottom Bracket.

I also had to pay duty that came to $26.

The motor got flagged as dangerous goods and ended up in Japan on its way to Canada.

The magnets in the motor were a safety concern, so it had to be shipped accordingly.

The box was all Beat to Hell by the time it got to my place.
It had been opened and inspected a couple times and the Styrofoam inside the box was smashed and taped back back together.

The display and the delicate components were packaged separately inside a separate box inside and were in great shape.

I'll admit that if the motor was damaged, I probably would have been screwed, and would have had a hard time dealing with any sort of refund, but I was glad to see that the motor itself is at least tough enough to find it's way to my house without breaking, so the first "road test" of my motor ended up being the trip to my .

There was a few scratches and dings here and there but I don't care about superficial things like that.
A pretty motor is ripe for being stolen.
I'm going to add more scratches and dirt to ugly it up more as a security update. Lol


I bought a programing cable from an Outdoor Beauty Store in China.
I'll only be using at home, so I don't care if it's pretty.

Thanks @Gionnirocket for informing me about the programming cable and the Speeed App that allowed me to quickly and easily adjust the power down to not "Slam" gears.

The app allows me to adjust my motor settings directly using my smartphone, so I saved HUGE $ by not having to buy a computer to program my motor.

I have No Intention of pedaling my ebike, so I don't have to program the "ramp-up" power/acceleration curve, and will use my throttle to apply power gently.

I have no intention of completely neutering my motor. I can still throw up to 25 amps at it at up to 54.6 volts, but I'll save that power for "throttle gear 9" and neuter my first few "throttle gears" starting at ~4% throttle power for "throttle gear 1".

So, under full power with both my motors pulling, I'll have over 2,500 Watts available, but I still won't be using that to go over 32 kph.

I Won't Speed, and that's the only thing that the cops care about.
I never pedal, and the cops don't care about that, but there are no hills around here so I am looking forward to a Gale force windy day to see what my ebike will be capable of.
I've been out in 20 mph headwinds, and my hub motor maxed out at 18.3 amps continuous in the gusts, so with the additional mid-drive pulling up to 25 amps, I might be able to Plow into a 50 mph headwind at 20 mph?
(I haven't done the math on that yet. Forward speed is inversely related to ~ the cube³ of the wind.)


I had a choice of chain ring and went with the 36 tooth ring, but it is rubbing a bit on the plastic motor housing, so I bought a spacer ring and a 44T chainring (that I should have bought in the first place).

The chainring order was canceled today (I think they realized that they sold it too cheap, so they just refunded the $18 ?)
And its $28 now, but it comes with a plastic chain gaurd and screws, as well as the chainring bolts (~$8 separately).


I'm gunna wait to order that, and just see how the 36T chainring with the spacer works.

As far as I see it (I haven't done all the inch/crank/foot/wheel size calculations, so I'll just try it and see what happens.

I'm only allowed to go 20mph, so the 36T chainwheel coupled with my heavy duty Drift Maniac 7-speed 34T-11T freewheel might still get me to 32 kph ?

The motor might be wound up to close to maximum rpms, but I believe that it is most efficient at just under maximum rpms?

I'm going to have to take a couple links outta my chain to accommodate the smaller chainring, but it's a good excuse to buy a new chain?

Maybe I'll just buy a new chain anyway?



I just checked the seller on Aliexpress, and they now have a 500 Watt BBS02B with a 100mm BB available,..

I realize now that I should have bought the 120mm BB version in the first place.
It would fit my first Fat ebike (with a 120mm BB) and it will fit my current ebike (with a 100mm BB) with BB spacers, and it would fit any "standard" bicycle with the Enormously Common 68mm-73mm BB, with the appropriate BB spacers.

I don't pedal anyway, so I don't give a poop about the Q-factor.

In fact it would feel more like a 🏍 which is what I want anyway.

And now with the additional ~15 pounds of ballast hanging off my BB, I should have reached my 100 pound ebike goal which should help keep Stephan up at night.

I'm posting this picture again, just to irritate him,..

Post in thread 'Do you really need to torque a through axle?' https://forums.electricbikereview.c...ed-to-torque-a-through-axle.57057/post-669493

 

[kevinmccune]

Well, as long as you're the one getting the butter

I ended up spending $100 extra to get a UART mid-drive BBS02B with a 100mm BB.

So my UART BBS02B ended up costing $591 CAD with the fancy display and no battery.

I ended having to get the 750W UART version because it was the only one that I could find with a 100mm Bottom Bracket.

View attachment 204287


I also had to pay duty that came to $26.

The motor got flagged as dangerous goods and ended up in Japan on its way to Canada.

The magnets in the motor were a safety concern, so it had to be shipped accordingly.

The box was all Beat to Hell by the time it got to my place.
It had been opened and inspected a couple times and the Styrofoam inside the box was smashed and taped back back together.

The display and the delicate components were packaged separately inside a separate box inside and were in great shape.

I'll admit that if the motor was damaged, I probably would have been screwed, and would have had a hard time dealing with any sort of refund, but I was glad to see that the motor itself is at least tough enough to find it's way to my house without breaking, so the first "road test" of my motor ended up being the trip to my .



View attachment 204287



There was a few scratches and dings here and there but I don't care about superficial things like that.
A pretty motor is ripe for being stolen.
I'm going to add more scratches and dirt to ugly it up more as a security update. Lol


I bought a programing cable from an Outdoor Beauty Store in China.
I'll only be using at home, so I don't care if it's pretty.


View attachment 204288

View attachment 204294



Thanks @Gionnirocket for informing me about the programming cable and the Speeed App that allowed me to quickly and easily adjust the power down to not "Slam" gears.

The app allows me to adjust my motor settings directly using my smartphone, so I saved HUGE $ by not having to buy a computer to program my motor.

I have No Intention of pedaling my ebike, so I don't have to program the "ramp-up" power/acceleration curve, and will use my throttle to apply power gently.

I have no intention of completely neutering my motor. I can still throw up to 25 amps at it at up to 54.6 volts, but I'll save that power for "throttle gear 9" and neuter my first few "throttle gears" starting at ~4% throttle power for "throttle gear 1".

So, under full power with both my motors pulling, I'll have over 2,500 Watts available, but I still won't be using that to go over 32 kph.

I Won't Speed, and that's the only thing that the cops care about.
I never pedal, and the cops don't care about that, but there are no hills around here so I am looking forward to a Gale force windy day to see what my ebike will be capable of.
I've been out in 20 mph headwinds, and my hub motor maxed out at 18.3 amps continuous in the gusts, so with the additional mid-drive pulling up to 25 amps, I might be able to Plow into a 50 mph headwind at 20 mph?
(I haven't done the math on that yet. Forward speed is inversely related to ~ the cube³ of the wind.)


I had a choice of chain ring and went with the 36 tooth ring, but it is rubbing a bit on the plastic motor housing, so I bought a spacer ring and a 44T chainring (that I should have bought in the first place).


View attachment 204289


The chainring order was canceled today (I think they realized that they sold it too cheap, so they just refunded the $18 ?)
And its $28 now, but it comes with a plastic chain gaurd and screws, as well as the chainring bolts (~$8 separately).


I'm gunna wait to order that, and just see how the 36T chainring with the spacer works.

As far as I see it (I haven't done all the inch/crank/foot/wheel size calculations, so I'll just try it and see what happens.

I'm only allowed to go 20mph, so the 36T chainwheel coupled with my heavy duty Drift Maniac 7-speed 34T-11T freewheel might still get me to 32 kph ?

View attachment 204290



The motor might be wound up to close to maximum rpms, but I believe that it is most efficient at just under maximum rpms?

I'm going to have to take a couple links outta my chain to accommodate the smaller chainring, but it's a good excuse to buy a new chain?

Maybe I'll just buy a new chain anyway?



I just checked the seller on Aliexpress, and they now have a 500 Watt BBS02B with a 100mm BB available,..

View attachment 204291


I realize now that I should have bought the 120mm BB version in the first place.
It would fit my first Fat ebike (with a 120mm BB) and it will fit my current ebike (with a 100mm BB) with BB spacers, and it would fit any "standard" bicycle with the Enormously Common 68mm-73mm BB, with the appropriate BB spacers.

I don't pedal anyway, so I don't give a poop about the Q-factor.

In fact it would feel more like a 🏍 which is what I want anyway.

And now with the additional ~15 pounds of ballast hanging off my BB, I should have reached my 100 pound ebike goal which should help keep Stephan up at night.

I'm posting this picture again, just to irritate him,..

View attachment 204293



Post in thread 'Do you really need to torque a through axle?' https://forums.electricbikereview.c...ed-to-torque-a-through-axle.57057/post-669493ay add a Grin axle on the front

however makes me want a "grin all axle" if I get my quad and need more power might add an all axle.