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[Deleted member 803]

You started e-biking a year ago -- what bikes have you been on so far? Easy motion and Stromer?

Tested:

Haibikes: All mountain and road/urban bikes
Kalkhoff/Focus: Entire 2014 Kalkhoff line
Raleigh: Misceo (shimano steps)
Specailized Turbo X/S
Stromer ST1 Platinum and Elite, ST2
Izip: Dash, Zip,Zuma
EFlow
Easy Motion: Neo Line, Evo Line, Nitro Line
Pedego (don't remember models)
Ohm: XU750
Felt (2 recent 2015 models)
Ford: forgot what it was called.

Have not ridden:

Juiced Rider
eJoe
A2B
Grace
M1 Spitzing


I purchased an Easy Motion Neo Carbon as my first bike. Loved the tiny Dapu geared rear hub and the geometry. Sold recently and purchased an ST2 a few days ago which I will sell next March to purchase a Focus Aventura Integrale S11 or an M1 Schwabing.

I prefer the Kalkhoff Impulse mid-drive to the Bosch system or the panasonic mid-drives. What I have learned is that HP is not the end all/be all. Nominal/Peak performance coupled with strong torque and a well designed controller and torque sensor lead to the most satisfying experience for me.

 

[EbikeR2]

Tested:

Haibikes: All mountain and road/urban bikes
Kalkhoff/Focus: Entire 2014 Kalkhoff line
Raleigh: Misceo (shimano steps)
Specailized Turbo X/S
Stromer ST1 Platinum and Elite, ST2
Izip: Dash, Zip,Zuma
EFlow
Easy Motion: Neo Line, Evo Line, Nitro Line
Pedego (don't remember models)
Ohm: XU750
Felt (2 recent 2015 models)
Ford: forgot what it was called.

Have not ridden:

Juiced Rider
eJoe
A2B
Grace
M1 Spitzing


I purchased an Easy Motion Neo Carbon as my first bike. Loved the tiny Dapu geared rear hub and the geometry. Sold recently and purchased an ST2 a few days ago which I will sell next March to purchase a Focus Aventura Integrale S11 or an M1 Schwabing.

I prefer the Kalkhoff Impulse mid-drive to the Bosch system or the panasonic mid-drives. What I have learned is that HP is not the end all/be all. Nominal/Peak performance coupled with strong torque and a well designed controller and torque sensor lead to the most satisfying experience for me.

Love your style -- I imagine work hard/play hard. Interested to see what you think of the ST2 after doing some decent milage in it.... ie. a) wow this is overpriced/overhyped or b) much better than I thought, I am just going to keep it and not upgrade next year!

 

[Deleted member 803]

Love your style -- I imagine work hard/play hard. Interested to see what you think of the ST2 after doing some decent milage in it.... ie. a) wow this is overpriced/overhyped or b) much better than I thought, I am just going to keep it and not upgrade next year!

I have a slightly different perspective. I have clear understanding that the technology will continue to evolve fairly quickly (legislation much less so). I typically do not keep stuff a long time and enjoy the upgrade process so I can experience new technology as it becomes available. The ST2 is both an excellent and poor cost value proposition. As a replacement for an automobile for short range commuting it is an excellent cost value proposition. As a weekend recreational fun ride it is a poor cost value proposition. Value has many definitions only one of which is cost. I seldom use cost as a value consideration. As stated in an earlier post if I have a shitty meal for $10.00 I consider myself ripped off and pissed. If I have a wonderful meal for $50 I consider the value well deserved. Not to say that you can't have a wonderful $10 meal, but for me the value is in the deliverables. The ST2 had some rough bumps in their initial rollout and this is typical of a hardware company that delivers 1st generation software. I owned a BMW 750 for 4 weeks until BMW refunded my money (due to horrendous software issues long since resolved.) What worries me about the ST2 is not the performance envelope but the health of the company. BMC is actively (or was at last info) seeking an investment and/or sale partner. I am hoping that Stromer winds up continuing its business rather than shutting down. If BMC does not find a partner and revenue/profits are a drag on earnings it is not inconceivable that BMC would shut Stromer down.

As an example, before there was GoPro there was a tiny little startup called Flip Video that took off like a rocket, acquired by Cisco, who promptly proceeded to shut it down. The high tech road is strewn with great products that died due to lack of ongoing funding. I have my fingers crossed that Stromer will land right side up and build on its early success (technically at least).

 

[EbikeR2]

I have a slightly different perspective. I have clear understanding that the technology will continue to evolve fairly quickly (legislation much less so). I typically do not keep stuff a long time and enjoy the upgrade process so I can experience new technology as it becomes available. The ST2 is both an excellent and poor cost value proposition. As a replacement for an automobile for short range commuting it is an excellent cost value proposition. As a weekend recreational fun ride it is a poor cost value proposition. Value has many definitions only one of which is cost. I seldom use cost as a value consideration. As stated in an earlier post if I have a shitty meal for $10.00 I consider myself ripped off and pissed. If I have a wonderful meal for $50 I consider the value well deserved. Not to say that you can't have a wonderful $10 meal, but for me the value is in the deliverables. The ST2 had some rough bumps in their initial rollout and this is typical of a hardware company that delivers 1st generation software. I owned a BMW 750 for 4 weeks until BMW refunded my money (due to horrendous software issues long since resolved.) What worries me about the ST2 is not the performance envelope but the health of the company. BMC is actively (or was at last info) seeking an investment and/or sale partner. I am hoping that Stromer winds up continuing its business rather than shutting down. If BMC does not find a partner and revenue/profits are a drag on earnings it is not inconceivable that BMC would shut Stromer down.

As an example, before there was GoPro there was a tiny little startup called Flip Video that took off like a rocket, acquired by Cisco, who promptly proceeded to shut it down. The high tech road is strewn with great products that died do to lack of ongoing funding. I have my fingers crossed that Stromer will land right side up and build on its early success (technically at least).

Indeed, value is a child of perception (don't get me started on diamonds). You remind me of some veteran financial/VC/ tech consultants I know -- too much info to ask what your field was before you retired? I can't imagine you were a teacher/fireman/priest... I would put money down it was business. Like an older Mark Cuban!

BMC shutting down Stromer would be a disappointment, to say the least, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Deleted member 803]

I have ridden many many ebikes but have only owned an Easy Motion Neo Carbon and a Stromer ST2. The Stromer ST2 is a surprisingly fast bike and today (at 5:30am) I got a speeding ticket doing 30 in a 25. Doesn't help that I was blasting through stop signs......I will probably frame the ticket.......

 

[Deleted member 803]

Indeed, value is a child of perception (don't get me started on diamonds). You remind me of some veteran financial/VC/ tech consultants I know -- too much info to ask what your field was before you retired? I can't imagine you were a teacher/fireman/priest... I would put money down it was business. Like an older Mark Cuban!

BMC shutting down Stromer would be a disappointment, to say the least, but stranger things have happened.

I'm a hair stylist.....................thought my coiffure would have made that obvious.

 

[Bike_On]

For your ideal bike, do you want PAS only, PAS +throttle, or maybe throttle only?

 

[Bike_On]

Someone once said, "performance, quality, low cost, pick two".

From reading this thread, it appears performance wise, you want:
750-1000W, 28mph, PAS
Aggressive position
lighter bike ~ under 55 lbs
smooth ride and good torque for hills.
Zippy acceleration
$5k or less
OEM, not a kit.
Correct?

I would suggest one of the Specialized offerings, which will do it all except climb a lot of steep hills. St2 is very good, but heavier.

Unless you can find a high speed geared hub, speed pedelec, your pick of the Focus Speed adv sounds about right if you are ok with cruising @ 22-25mph, vs 28-30mph.

Yes, a good 350-500W system can feel satisfactory with acceleration, shifting, handling. But to maintain the higher speeds, physics prevails and you do need a system that can put out over 500W continuous.

The win-win is less power=less ahrs needed=less weight. A nice peak of performance vs weight.

Let us know if you decide to keep the ST2. I have a hunch you will, so long as it can handle your hilly routes. It is a smooth and powerful bike.

 

[Deleted member 803]

For your ideal bike, do you want PAS only, PAS +throttle, or maybe throttle only?

For me PAS only. However as ebikes evolve and become appropriate for other multi-person transport (ebike taxi for example) a throttle may be useful.

 

[Deleted member 803]

Someone once said, "performance, quality, low cost, pick two".

From reading this thread, it appears performance wise, you want:
750-1000W, 28mph, PAS
Aggressive position
lighter bike ~ under 55 lbs
smooth ride and good torque for hills.
Zippy acceleration
$5k or less
OEM, not a kit.
Correct?

I would suggest one of the Specialized offerings, which will do it all except climb a lot of steep hills. St2 is very good, but heavier.

Unless you can find a high speed geared hub, speed pedelec, your pick of the Focus Speed adv sounds about right if you are ok with cruising @ 22-25mph, vs 28-30mph.

Yes, a good 350-500W system can feel satisfactory with acceleration, shifting, handling. But to maintain the higher speeds, physics prevails and you do need a system that can put out over 500W continuous.

The win-win is less power=less ahrs needed=less weight. A nice peak of performance vs weight.

Let us know if you decide to keep the ST2. I have a hunch you will, so long as it can handle your hilly routes. It is a smooth and powerful bike.

I have an ST2 currently. Not happy, TWO (read 2) speeding tickets so far..........30 in a 25.......