Available Mission Control and Mastermind TCD-W Statistics

[ReedM]

Being a statistics junky and an engineer to boot, I was curious about the statistics available to me on my new Tero 5. My old Garmin Edge 800 on my road bike can give me up to 5 pages of statistics, with as many as 10 statistics on any page.

So I first looked into Mission Control (MC). It has only a single page of statistics, with only 6 selectable stats on that page. Next I examined the Mastermind TCD-W system. Turn Bluetooth and your bike on. Then in the MC app, go to TUNE, the wrench icon, and select Customize Display hitting the little arrow to the right. This gives a screen with the name DISPLAY. Below that is a list of the available screens available after hitting the F1 button on the remote. If you hit the + to the right of the DISPLAY text, you will get a Select Layout screen. With 4 available screens, each showing from 1 to 6 selectable statistics. If you select a layout, you are taken back to the DISPLAY screen with the new screen named Screen 2. (Unless you have already done this.) Select that new screen and you will be able to add statistics to it.

I was curious about all the available statics, so I listed them all out so I could compare them. That list is shown below.

The MC has 20 statistics, and the TCD-W has 32 statistics. That should be enough for anybody. Since it is snowy here now, it ma be a while before I go riding, except on Zwift, so I have a while to decide which stats I want to show.

I wonder which of all these statistics are available in the ride reports

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@ReedM: Have you tried to connect your Garmin to the Mastermind TCD-W? I ask because I can connect my Wahoo ELEMNT Roam to both older TCD-W and to the newer TCU but had no chance to try it on the Mastermind. I only don't know whether your Edge 800 has the ANT+ connectivity?

 

[ReedM]

@Stefan Mikes : My Edge 800 has ANT+ capability. I use it with the Garmin speed and cadence sensors, and a hub mounted power meter. How do I look for ANT+ data from the TCD-W. How does it show up? Could you post a screen shot of what the data would look like?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes : My Edge 800 has ANT+ capability. I use it with the Garmin speed and cadence sensors, and a hub mounted power meter. How do I look for ANT+ data from the TCD-W. How does it show up? Could you post a screen shot of what the data would look like?

I have replied to it under another thread, Reed. Generally, ANT+ transfers this information from e-bike:

• Speed (so Distance ridden, too)
• Rider's Cadence
• Rider's Power
• E-Bike Battery %
• Assistance Level Name (a.k.a. LEV Travel Mode)
• Range (if calculated by the e-bike's control system)

Of course, you do not need any special sensors, as your Tero has all the sensors already in.

Garmin 530 as connected via ANT+ to a Giant Trance E+ e-bike. Data Fields selected: Time of Day, Ambient Temperature, Speed, Distance to Go, Distance Ridden, E-Bike Battery %, Range.

Wahoo ELEMNT Roam as connected via ANT+ to Vado SL: Speed, Distance Ridden, Ambient Temperature, E-Bike Battery % (main/extender), Distance to Go, Cadence, Rider's Power (3 second average), Travel Mode, Average Speed. There is a hidden field for Heart Rate there, too.

 

[mschwett]

Being a statistics junky and an engineer to boot, I was curious about the statistics available to me on my new Tero 5. My old Garmin Edge 800 on my road bike can give me up to 5 pages of statistics, with as many as 10 statistics on any page.

So I first looked into Mission Control (MC). It has only a single page of statistics, with only 6 selectable stats on that page. Next I examined the Mastermind TCD-W system. Turn Bluetooth and your bike on. Then in the MC app, go to TUNE, the wrench icon, and select Customize Display hitting the little arrow to the right. This gives a screen with the name DISPLAY. Below that is a list of the available screens available after hitting the F1 button on the remote. If you hit the + to the right of the DISPLAY text, you will get a Select Layout screen. With 4 available screens, each showing from 1 to 6 selectable statistics. If you select a layout, you are taken back to the DISPLAY screen with the new screen named Screen 2. (Unless you have already done this.) Select that new screen and you will be able to add statistics to it.

I was curious about all the available statics, so I listed them all out so I could compare them. That list is shown below.

View attachment 110775

View attachment 110775

The MC has 20 statistics, and the TCD-W has 32 statistics. That should be enough for anybody. Since it is snowy here now, it ma be a while before I go riding, except on Zwift, so I have a while to decide which stats I want to show.

I wonder which of all these statistics are available in the ride reports

hmmm…. i know for a fact that mission control also displays “elevation gain” - not sure if you missed any others.

my two big asks for mission control are
1) additional rider power averaging (30s, 1m, 5m, 20m, entire ride) which most bike computers do
2) varia radar overlay, ala rideWithGPS

 

[ReedM]

@mschwett : The list of Mission Control statistics that I presented came directly from the list in Mission Control > RIDE > STATS and then listing all the available selectable statistics. It turns out that Mastermind TCD-W does show altitude, altitude gain, and altitude descent. All Mission Control shows is the Current Elevation (Altitude). Please show me where I can find the additional displayable statistics for Mission Control.

 

[mschwett]

if you are in “ride” mode, and hold down a field, elevation gain is an option:

it is one i use on every ride, so i’m certain it works

 

[kahn]

if you are in “ride” mode, and hold down a field, elevation gain is an option:

View attachment 110974

it is one i use on every ride, so i’m certain it works

Although, I have to say, "elevation gain DOWNHILL" would be awkward! Sorry, I could not resist.

I keep my phone and, therefore, Mission Control, tucked away, I do review the stats at the end of the ride and use the elevation gain value for my records.

 

[ReedM]

@mschwett : Well, that is interesting. My list of stats stops at Current Elevation. I am viewing this in an android LG Stylo 5, running Android version 10. The version of Mission Control I am running is 2.8.0. I would like to have elevation gain available to me. I wonder if the amount of statistics shown is a function of iPhone or android, screen size, or what. My phone has a large screen. What phone are you running Mission Control on?

Although, I have to say, "elevation gain DOWNHILL" would be awkward! Sorry, I could not resist.

I keep my phone and, therefore, Mission Control, tucked away, I do review the stats at the end of the ride and use the elevation gain value for my records.

@kahn : What phone are you using for Mission Control? My phones are both LG android 10. I also tried it on a Samsung tablet No Joy on any of them.

 

[mschwett]

i’m on

@mschwett : Well, that is interesting. My list of stats stops at Current Elevation. I am viewing this in an android LG Stylo 5, running Android version 10. The version of Mission Control I am running is 2.8.0. I would like to have elevation gain available to me. I wonder if the amount of statistics shown is a function of iPhone or android, screen size, or what. My phone has a large screen. What phone are you running Mission Control on?

@kahn : What phone are you using for Mission Control? My phones are both LG android 10. I also tried it on a Samsung tablet No Joy on any of them.

i’m on iOS, app version 2.7.0 97

i use it on both an iphone 13 pro max and a 12 mini; also a 12 pro max prior. the elevation gained field has always been present over many versions of iOS!

 

[GenXrider]

hmmm…. i know for a fact that mission control also displays “elevation gain” - not sure if you missed any others.

my two big asks for mission control are
1) additional rider power averaging (30s, 1m, 5m, 20m, entire ride) which most bike computers do
2) varia radar overlay, ala rideWithGPS

Oh crap, the rider power metric on these bikes was something I was very interested in, but I was assuming it had more than a 3 second average for rider power. That is extremely limited. Bummer.

 

[mschwett]

Oh crap, the rider power metric on these bikes was something I was very interested in, but I was assuming it had more than a 3 second average for rider power. That is extremely limited. Bummer.

of course, you can see different averagings on a bike computer, many of which can receive data directly from the bike's sensors. you can also see it after the fact in strava and other ride analysis platforms.

there is one third party app called "BLEVO" which may have power averaging settings, but it's problematic on at least some of the US class 3 specialized bikes, and the iOS version is fairly unusable. android and non-USA users seem much more satisfied.

i really like the "power curve" feature in strava, which compares your power at any interval in the ride to your best efforts. on a longer ride it goes out to many hours.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@mschwett: As far as I can remember you ride a Gen 1 Creo SL while ReedM owns the Gen 2 Tero? Isn't it making your both MCs different?

 

[mschwett]

@mschwett: As far as I can remember you ride a Gen 1 Creo SL while ReedM owns the Gen 2 Tero? Isn't it making your both MCs different?

i don’t see why that would affect the “elevation climbed” field in MC, given that MC gets elevation from the phone, not the bike. perhaps a bug or inadvertent omission. could also be related to the android vs iOs versions?

even the pdf manual clearly shows elevation gain.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mschwett: I don't want to make a PhD on how MC works Suffice to say, I am very dissatisfied with Mission Control (and that's why I hardly use it).

Here is my ride of today. I used Mission Control and Wahoo on the outward trip. Mission Control takes the Bluetooth connection as its owner but Wahoo ELEMNT talks with Vado SL via ANT+:

Data from Mission Control:
Distance Ridden (MC and export to Strava): 6.6 km
Duration (MC): 15:28
Duration (MC export to Strava): 19:40
Avg speed (MC): 25.58 km/h
Avg speed (MC export to Strava): 20.1 km/h
Total consumption (MC): 60 Wh.

I could continue but it is enough to say some data are wrong there, and MC cannot agree with Strava (after export from MC to Strava!)

Now, the return trip on the exactly same route.
Data from BLEvo:
Distance Ridden (BL and export to Strava): 7.5 km
Duration (BL): 19:07
Duration (BL export to Strava): 19:06
Avg speed (BL): 23.6 km/h
Avg speed (BL export to Strava): 23.6 km/h
Total consumption (BL): 62 Wh.
(Blevo produces huge detailed report that can be converted to Excel with the whole ride history).

I need to mention the outward leg was against side-headwind that should slower the ride compared to the return trip.

Now, the data from Wahoo ELEMNT Roam (connected to Vado SL):
Total distance: 15.0 km
Total moving time: 40:51
Average speed: 22.0 km/h
Total energy consumption: 40% of 320 Wh = 128 Wh.

As you can see, Wahoo and BLEvo (both connected to Vado SL) correlate pretty well while the data from Mission Control is just a crap. How can anyone trust Mission Control if it fails on the critical parameters, which are Distance Ridden and Ride Time? An app that cannot agree with Strava, either?

 

[kahn]

I use Mission Control and Gaia on most of my rides. Their results generally align with each other within a reasonable amount. I guess the results are sufficient for my needs. I also have my Garmin 1030+ and seen very similar results. MC and Gaia use the phone's gps while the Garmin is its own gps.

In my life deciding on what's for dinner is more important than .25 miles differences over a 20-25 mile trip.

 

[mschwett]

Mschwett: I don't want to make a PhD on how MC works Suffice to say, I am very dissatisfied with Mission Control (and that's why I hardly use it).

Here is my ride of today. I used Mission Control and Wahoo on the outward trip. Mission Control takes the Bluetooth connection as its owner but Wahoo ELEMNT talks with Vado SL via ANT+:

Data from Mission Control:
Distance Ridden (MC and export to Strava): 6.6 km
Duration (MC): 15:28
Duration (MC export to Strava): 19:40
Avg speed (MC): 25.58 km/h
Avg speed (MC export to Strava): 20.1 km/h
Total consumption (MC): 60 Wh.

I could continue but it is enough to say some data are wrong there, and MC cannot agree with Strava (after export from MC to Strava!)

Now, the return trip on the exactly same route.
Data from BLEvo:
Distance Ridden (BL and export to Strava): 7.5 km
Duration (BL): 19:07
Duration (BL export to Strava): 19:06
Avg speed (BL): 23.6 km/h
Avg speed (BL export to Strava): 23.6 km/h
Total consumption (BL): 62 Wh.
(Blevo produces huge detailed report that can be converted to Excel with the whole ride history).

I need to mention the outward leg was against side-headwind that should slower the ride compared to the return trip.

Now, the data from Wahoo ELEMNT Roam (connected to Vado SL):
Total distance: 15.0 km
Total moving time: 40:51
Average speed: 22.0 km/h
Total energy consumption: 40% of 320 Wh = 128 Wh.

As you can see, Wahoo and BLEvo (both connected to Vado SL) correlate pretty well while the data from Mission Control is just a crap. How can anyone trust Mission Control if it fails on the critical parameters, which are Distance Ridden and Ride Time? An app that cannot agree with Strava, either?

not sure what to say there stefan, except that i have about 200 rides with mission control transferred to strava (and often with rideWithGPS used in parallel) and the difference in distance in my experience is 1% or often less and the difference in time is a minute or two over a few hours, depending on how many stops the ride included. this is with two different wheelsets, three different sets of tires, and three iphones over a year.

 

[mschwett]

I use Mission Control and Gaia on most of my rides. Their results generally align with each other within a reasonable amount. I guess the results are sufficient for my needs. I also have my Garmin 1030+ and seen very similar results. MC and Gaia use the phone's gps while the Garmin is its own gps.

In my life deciding on what's for dinner is more important than .25 miles differences over a 20-25 mile trip.

my experience matches yours, kahn! the differences in everything but elevation are very small. for elevation, i see up to 10% difference in various methods which is not surprising given the nature of GPS, barometers, and maps.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Elevation is just another thing as it is measured by smartphone (barometer) for MC, and not only for MC. It is even hopeless in Wahoo ELEMNT Roam, as that device does not use elevation maps (the newer and less expensive Bolt V2 uses elevation maps!)

Yet... 12% discrepancy on a 7.5 km trip? If I relied on MC, it would not be possible to plan battery use for any long ride!

P.S. I instructed BLEvo to use GPS, not bike data. I calibrated Wahoo's Wheel Circumference to take the ride data from my e-bikes but make it in almost 100% agreement with GPS data. It is clear that Wheel Circumference coded in my both e-bikes is wrong because I do not use stock tyres. MC takes the bike data only. That makes MC useless for me.

 

[mschwett]

Elevation is just another thing as it is measured by smartphone (barometer) for MC, and not only for MC. It is even hopeless in Wahoo ELEMNT Roam, as that device does not use elevation maps (the newer and less expensive Bolt V2 uses elevation maps!)

Yet... 12% discrepancy on a 7.5 km trip? If I relied on MC, it would not be possible to plan battery use for any long ride!

yes, and the use of maps adds another layer of inaccuracy in many places. e.g. for my rides which includes tunnels and bridges, map based elevation shows dropping to sea level and then back whenever crossing a bridge like the golden gate, and it shows going over the top of mountains or hills which have tunnels through them. barometer readings with subtle corrections from maps seems the best available at the moment.