Another BBSHD range thread (Full Throttle Range)

[Jqke H]

I know there are dozens of other threads far too similar to this one, and I really don't mean to be an annoyance (I'm a noobie in this e-bike, and even bicycle, world), but I have some questions on the range I will get from my new setup. I ordered my BBSHD (with the ludicrous tune) from luna a few days ago, but it is (understandably) going to take a while to get here and I am anxious to see how far I will get on my bike riding it the way I will. Here is the setup:
Trek Marlin 7 (beginner hard-tail 29er)
BBSHD + 48v 17.5ah Jumbo Shark [Samsung 35E cells]
150-pound rider in horrid shape (I don't need any suggestions here)

Here is the part I am not so sure about. I ride dirtbikes, not mountain bikes, but I live in California which leaves me no legal riding all summer and I often only get out riding once or twice a month anyways in the season. I rode a friends Sondors 750w fat bike a while ago and fell in love mainly because the throttle gave me a taste of urban motorcycle riding. I won't bore you with my whole story, but basically, I intend to ride this trek+BBSHD more like a motorcycle than a bike. I don't care much for high speed (that's what dirtbike dessert racing is for) so I will probably just cruise at around 20mph (the limit on the Sondors my friend has). I will mostly use throttle only, and I know this will use up the battery fast, just how fast though? I don't have anywhere to go, so there isn't really a mileage that I have to meet, but I keep hearing people talk about their 20ah batteries gone in 30-40min using throttle only which worries me. My buddy's SONDORS has enough range to be ridden hard, throttle only, and on the flat ground all day without even using 75% of its battery, yet it has a similar battery (48v 17.5ah Panasonic Cells) and a Bafang 750w-1000w Hub motor. After doing more research, I find that the SONDORS has a 25a controller while the BBSHD has a 30a, but that still shouldn't warrant the SONDORS to have 6x the range.
TLDR: BBSHD + 48v 17.5ah [35E Cells]. If ridden throttle only, under 25mph, in mixed flat+hilly terrain, what range can I expect?
*Sorry about all the (parenthesis)

 

[m@Robertson]

Something to consider: When I hit the throttle on one of my Bafang G060 fat-hub'd bikes (same as the Sondors XS, MXS and Fold XS), using the old-school KT-LCD3 that Sondors used to use, that shows real time watt draw, I see it ramp up, then as speed increases (or load decreases if I start going downhill or similar) it ramps back down again. The 1000w+ peak I see on the hub motor is not sustained unless I am going up a hill.

If on the other hand I hop onto one of my BBSHD bikes, and I peg the throttle, the output display stays pegged along with it. An 860C display set to display real time amps and watts shows watts pegged at the display's max of 1000w (its really more than that with my 52v battery) and amps are nearly constant at 29, 29.5 or 30a - and they stay that way.

So... the two motors use power in an apples/oranges kind of way. The BBSHD can be an absolute animal if you decide to flog it.

So yeah... I have no problem believing a BBSHD from Luna (I have 5 of them) will drain a pack waaaay faster than a fat Bafang hub (I've got 3 of those). If you learn some discipline, do some reprogramming and learn what actions deliver forward motion and what just wastes power into heat, you will get a huge boost in range over a Luna Hot Rod tune with little if any penalty to top end.

 

[Jqke H]

So do you suggest easing onto the throttle and only using full throttle to maintain speed up hills and accelerate? Basically trying to mimic what a controller would do for a Sondors. Also, I have seen a couple of people mention that the PAS level changes the throttle power as well, is this true and if so could I just change PAS levels to suit the terrain and have that affect how strong the throttle is as well?

 

[AHicks]

One of the settings Mr. Robertson mentioned, I think you have the option of programming the controller to run in power mode, where a given amount of power (assistance) is established for each PAS level, and there is speed mode, where the power tapers off to nothing at predetermined speeds according to PAS level.

Bottom line, the Bafang mid drives have the most sophisticated/flexible controller programming abilities of anything I know of. You're going to need to get to know it, and then, learn how to program it to work like you want it to.

It's only then you'll be able to answer your question.

 

[Jqke H]

Great, thanks! Do you have any suggestions on where best to learn programming one of these controllers?

 

[Jqke H]

I will get to work on the programming, but with the programming that is coming on it (Luna's ludicrous programming) what kind of range might I get riding it (still throttle only) conservatively/ rolling onto and off the throttle +keeping speeds low?

 

[AHicks]

My WAG? Somewhere between 15 and 25 miles. I know that's not much help, but you need to realize there are countless variables involved. Just keeping your speed down under 15mph or so will help big time....

Another thought. When you get some seat time on this bike, and maybe read/watch some you tube videos on programming, you'll have a much better grip of what's involved, and can ask some questions that will draw some relevant answers/opinions.

 

[Jqke H]

Ok thanks!

 

[Kayakguy]

I know there are dozens of other threads far too similar to this one, and I really don't mean to be an annoyance (I'm a noobie in this e-bike, and even bicycle, world), but I have some questions on the range I will get from my new setup. I ordered my BBSHD (with the ludicrous tune) from luna a few days ago, but it is (understandably) going to take a while to get here and I am anxious to see how far I will get on my bike riding it the way I will. Here is the setup:
Trek Marlin 7 (beginner hard-tail 29er)
BBSHD + 48v 17.5ah Jumbo Shark [Samsung 35E cells]
150-pound rider in horrid shape (I don't need any suggestions here)

Here is the part I am not so sure about. I ride dirtbikes, not mountain bikes, but I live in California which leaves me no legal riding all summer and I often only get out riding once or twice a month anyways in the season. I rode a friends Sondors 750w fat bike a while ago and fell in love mainly because the throttle gave me a taste of urban motorcycle riding. I won't bore you with my whole story, but basically, I intend to ride this trek+BBSHD more like a motorcycle than a bike. I don't care much for high speed (that's what dirtbike dessert racing is for) so I will probably just cruise at around 20mph (the limit on the Sondors my friend has). I will mostly use throttle only, and I know this will use up the battery fast, just how fast though? I don't have anywhere to go, so there isn't really a mileage that I have to meet, but I keep hearing people talk about their 20ah batteries gone in 30-40min using throttle only which worries me. My buddy's SONDORS has enough range to be ridden hard, throttle only, and on the flat ground all day without even using 75% of its battery, yet it has a similar battery (48v 17.5ah Panasonic Cells) and a Bafang 750w-1000w Hub motor. After doing more research, I find that the SONDORS has a 25a controller while the BBSHD has a 30a, but that still shouldn't warrant the SONDORS to have 6x the range.
TLDR: BBSHD + 48v 17.5ah [35E Cells]. If ridden throttle only, under 25mph, in mixed flat+hilly terrain, what range can I expect?
*Sorry about all the (parenthesis)

I assume the dessert racing comes after the main course? (Sorry--retired English teacher here).

 

[Jqke H]

My keyboard is defective I swear! *Cries in 14 IQ*

 

[Dave Rocks]

Why can’t you pedal the bike?

 

[AHicks]

My bet is, when he see what his battery range is without pedaling, he'll eventually rethink that plan.....

 

[m@Robertson]

So do you suggest easing onto the throttle and only using full throttle to maintain speed up hills and accelerate? Basically trying to mimic what a controller would do for a Sondors. Also, I have seen a couple of people mention that the PAS level changes the throttle power as well, is this true and if so could I just change PAS levels to suit the terrain and have that affect how strong the throttle is as well?

Thats pretty much what I do, although I am focused on optimizing the motor to pedal the bike more effectively so the motor does not run away from me and I still get a workout. If you are just throttling, things are much simpler... but I will say that if you care about range you are going to learn that you are essentially screwing yourself every time you hit that throttle. Even whan I am at PAS 9, and I have that level set to full blast in the settings interface, and I am ghost pedaling with no effort and seemingly going about as fast as possible anyway... my watt and amp output is noticeably less under full throttle. So... less power used on PAS but no *real* difference in performance.

I use PAS to do my thing and throttle to bypass and go full blast - lets say I see I am heading for an intersection and I want to make the light. So I hit the throttle to make sure I am "givin' 'er' all she's got cap'n".

The de facto standard tutorial going back years - its never been improved upon - for BBSHD settings is here. I think its unique in that it contains no actual errors. Bafang does not share its secrets so programming guides are all from reverse-engineers. Many guides come from folks who work for ebike Company X and their experience is colored by their intimate familiarity with just what they sell and not general use.

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

I did a supplement to this myself. Here's my original. I am going to be posting up an update (maybe as soon as today) that sips power a little more gently. Make sure you look at the throttle range adjustments both in the above article and below. They make a huge difference in changing the throttle from an on/off switch to something that actually has fine differences in output. I can feed 50-100w to the bike after spreading the range and making the other changes noted on that screen.

BBSHD Programming For The Pedaling Cyclist

(But Not For The Throttler) There is a follow-on to this article that tinkers with these settings a bit further. In August 2023 I published another update that passed along what I’m doing dif…

talesontwowheels.com

Also, since its summer, take a look at my article on heat sinks for the HD. Its going to be 110+ here for the next couple days and sustained throttle riding will peanut-butter your gears. Just sustained PAS on city streets riding in these temps will net you 165-degree casing temps on days like today. 130 degrees with heat sinks added. Makes the difference between a hot motor and potentially a dead one.

 

[tomjasz]

I have a collection of programming files. PM and email address and I'll send them. *.el files can't be uploaded here.

 

[Mike_V]

Worry? What 'fer ?
You bought an affordable high powered kit, it's versatile and won't bore you, nice move.
So, Bro; Buy another battery and ride all day long.
Or totally "break" the programming you paid for ' right off the bat '.
Good Luck

 

[ElevenAD]

try it,you may be surprised just dont ride in the highest PAS level all day and if you speed limit your bike to 20mph in settings this will help the BBSHD stay in the 750watt range. BBSHD is a fantastic motor imo.

 

[ElevenAD]

@Jqke H Just wondering if you ever got the bike up and running and if so what were the results?Did you like the Luna programming?

 

[m@Robertson]

Also I noticed you have Ludicrous programming, which means you have a special controller. If it were me I would screw with that only very carefully. VERY carefully. I think its possible the current/amps setting is the only thing you really do not want to mess with, and that value that you see is actually doubled. So... it should come to you saying '25a' but if its a Ludi v1 then that means you are really pumping out 50a.

If its a Ludi v2 then you can pretty much forget about everything we've said on programming as the v2's use an entirely different software package to manage the entirely different electronics inside that wondrous little half-arc.