Almost there! Help finding bike?

[EBRQuest]

Hey guys, any help finding a bike which fits these specs is much appreciated!

I started by figuring out my requirements: I wanted an all-weather, simple and zero maintenance e-bike to commute year round on (20 mile/day) with no exceptions. Being a previous bike mech, I knew that would involve a Gates drive, internally geared hub (ideally Enviolo), and full suspension. Come to search for that and shockingly there was only ONE company that fit these requirements: Riese & Muller. I'd be spending a cool $10k with basic add-ons I needed to ride..

So, there goes that dream. I'm not taking out a loan for a bike. I'm used to building my own too.. I just don't have time for it these days.. so, I know that R&M could be built and sold for 1/3 that price, which is what bothered me. I could build a Gates drive Enviolo with full suspension for under $2.5k, but I just don't have the time anymore with my other work.

So I learned that the Gates drive is mutually exclusive (commercially) with suspension because the tensioner isn't widespread enough (maybe R&M proprietary?), so I let the dream of that go. I need very good cushioning for a serious work commuter. So, after much searching that led me to settling on a much cheaper bike (if I can't get what I want, I'd rather go cheap until I can afford the R&M or another make that comes along later).

That led me to accepting a chain with tensioner pulley, as long as it goes to a rear internal hub single speed. I found Rad Power Bikes and the Mission, and RadRunner. Runner being the better of the two for snow capability and balance in adverse weather..

Other makes I found seemed to be VoltBike, Cube and Cutler Cycles (though they seem to be out of business now). The RadRunner had an option of a suspension seat post with the thick 20x3.3" tires, which would be a creative way to achieve 'suspension'. The VoltBike Enduro looked great on paper until I looked deeper and saw what cheap parts they put on there, and the full rear cassette (equals so much maintenance)..

So, if you guys could help me weed through the chaff I'd greatly appreciate! I need an internal hub and single gear chain and some suspension equivalent and I'm trying to do that for under $2.3k. I will be happy as long as it is a comfortable, bullet proof commuter that works with very little maintenance. (If I could build my own R&M Superdelite, it would fit my requirements perfectly.)

Thanks greatly for any help..

PS - I'm 6'3" and 250 so that may be important info (need enough support structure, motor torque and battery to work on throttle only if I require). RadRunner was the only one I found that handled this. Also, storage and rear rack (panniers) are a must for me now. Are there other viable options?

 

[Dewey]

To clarify are you asking for suggestions for ebikes with an internal geared hub, throttle, and a front suspension fork for under $2,300? You might look at the Ariel Rider C Class or Biktrix Stunner. Or for a single speed with a throttle spec an Electric Bike Company bike with a suspension fork, I think their Model R step-through comes with one.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If you wanted to spend $10K for R&M, why you don't look at the Vado 5.0? That's a serious commuter.

 

[EBRQuest]

Dewey, yes.. trying to find a well made, low maintenance commuter. Ideally full suspension (or close), internal hub shifter, single exterior cog/chainring bike with class 2/3 motor assist. A comfortable bike with minimal exposed parts, and capable of getting through moderate snow. Thinking I may have to buy a cheaper frame and weld on a booster motor with extra battery caps. These new bike packages are so inflated in price for the parts they offer..

Thanks Stefan! I'm checking this out now.

Edit: Looked at all of these bikes and thank you guys.. all suggestions I hadn't heard of that are very close towards the direction I'm looking. I'm thinking I may have to go with a 27.5/29" rim to get through snow on rough days and a lower top tube to manage traction loss. The Ariel's are like the Rad's! Cool design. The EBC looks tenable as well. Better motors and mid-drives than I've seen for the price elsewhere..

 

[byunbee]

Not sure why you wouldn’t spend the time to just build the bike you want for $2.5k if you’re able to. Building the bike for someone with your experience and skills should be a one day job if you have all the parts wouldn’t it? Or are you making the frame yourself? Not trying to criticize, just curious because I would if I could.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I only cannot understand how someone can compare unnamed Chinese motors to Brose, Bosch, Yamaha or Shimano.

 

[EBRQuest]

Well, I sure wish I had the time these days. One day, I hope to get back to it. There's just a limited number of complex tasks I can tackle well in one day. Building a well engineered e-bike to my standards would be months of work, starting from scratch. Just slapping parts together is easy.. the torque matching and welding, designing, most probably would require a few parts fabricated. Not a simple task to do well, but simple to do passably.

I can tune up a standard bike by the feel of the wrench. E-bikes are a more complex animal in different ways..

Well, back to the search. You know, one thing is true: if I expect very little from a bike and spend a few hundred dollars, I don't care how it performs. However, it almost becomes cheaper at a certain point to fabricate, because no stone is left unturned. Just the other month I put together a factory 'assembled' bike for a buddy. Lord have mercy. Seven hours later.. I might have saved more time starting over than searching for the errors. 'New' certainly doesn't mean 'better' anymore..

 

[Dewey]

Ideally full suspension (or close), internal hub shifter, single exterior cog/chainring bike with class 2/3 motor assist. A comfortable bike with minimal exposed parts, and capable of getting through moderate snow. Thinking I may have to buy a cheaper frame and weld on a booster motor with extra battery caps. The EBC looks tenable as well. Better motors and mid-drives than I've seen for the price elsewhere..

You’ll be fine with a front suspension fork and a suspension seatpost, I think EBC sell those as an option. Otherwise since you want to ride in snow you might think about a fat bike with a 3-speed IGH, something like a Rambo Roamer 750w XC.

 

[EBRQuest]

You’ll be fine with a front suspension fork and a suspension seatpost, I think EBC sell those as an option. Otherwise since you want to ride in snow you might think about a fat bike with a 3-speed IGH, something like a Rambo Roamer 750w XC.

Thanks for all these ideas, Dewey. You think a 3-speed will be enough for snow and inclines? Not familiar with how much torque assist these guys give..

 

[Dewey]

Thanks for all these ideas, Dewey. You think a 3-speed will be enough for snow and inclines? Not familiar with how much torque assist these guys give..

I have never ridden a fat tire ebike in the snow, but those who have rate a 3-speed highly for their 1:1 ratio direct drive gear particularly with high torque mid-drive motors like the Bafang BBSHD and Ultra, see:
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/...-fatties-its-got-the-power-dum-dum-da-da-dum/
and
https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/
There seem to be two to choose from, the Sturmey Archer SX-RK3 for 170mm wide fat tire frames, or the Shimano Nexus Inter-3 for 135mm wide dropout regular bike frames. If you decide to have a go at building one bear in mind you need a frame with horizontal or sliding rear dropouts if you don't want to fit a chain tensioner. I had my local bike shop convert a standard hybrid bike to an IGH 3 years ago and because it had vertical dropouts it needed a chain tensioner, only rode it for a few months before I had an accident and moved the kit motor over to a pedal bike designed for an IGH.
A high-torque mid-drive motor like a BBSHD or Ultra is like a winch, using one with a 3-speed you won't have difficulty climbing hills.

 

[Sierratim]

For commuting use I'd be careful about using a motor/ebike that exceeds the 746W/1hp Federal definition of a bicycle. Bikes that exceed this are mopeds or motorcycles for street use.

While it's true that enforcement in the States has been lax, this is not true in other countries with riders being ticketed. With ebikes becoming increasingly popular, enforcement is bound to increase Stateside as well, esp with some riders riding over powered bikes in bike lanes, etc.

 

[Dewey]

With ebikes becoming increasingly popular, enforcement is bound to increase Stateside as well.

When Juiced bikes tested the then recently enacted 3-class ebike law in California by introducing a rider-selectable unlimited “off road mode” on their CrossCurrent model which they sold labeled with a Class 3 sticker, I queried this in an email with the CA Office of the Attorney General and they were absolutely not interested in enforcing the ebike power/speed regulations on retailers, so Juiced now import electric mopeds without a VIN number that cannot be titled, registered, or insured, for riding on the street. It's possible it could get out of hand with riders killing themselves or pedestrians on streets or trails riding imports without mandated DOT safety equipment, ignoring trail speed limits, but locally here in DC dirt bikes/ATV's tend to be used more frequently when idiots engage in anti-social rider behavior. When electric scooters got out of hand cities/counties reacted with sidewalk/trail bans, and with the push gathering pace toward nationwide adoption of the 3-class ebike regs that's the most likely enforcement we might see moving forward - at a local level. OP is in Boston, MA, and Massbike is supporting the 3-class ebike legislation this year so it would be prudent for him to keep under the 750w nominal power rating, but I don't see how peak power can be enforced at the local level, only speed and rider behavior.

 

[EBRQuest]

I have never ridden a fat tire ebike in the snow, but those who have rate a 3-speed highly for their 1:1 ratio direct drive gear particularly with high torque mid-drive motors like the Bafang BBSHD and Ultra, see:
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/...-fatties-its-got-the-power-dum-dum-da-da-dum/
and
https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kit-igh/
There seem to be two to choose from, the Sturmey Archer SX-RK3 for 170mm wide fat tire frames, or the Shimano Nexus Inter-3 for 135mm wide dropout regular bike frames. If you decide to have a go at building one bear in mind you need a frame with horizontal or sliding rear dropouts if you don't want to fit a chain tensioner. I had my local bike shop convert a standard hybrid bike to an IGH 3 years ago and because it had vertical dropouts it needed a chain tensioner, only rode it for a few months before I had an accident and moved the kit motor over to a pedal bike designed for an IGH.
A high-torque mid-drive motor like a BBSHD or Ultra is like a winch, using one with a 3-speed you won't have difficulty climbing hills.

Great info Dewey, thanks. Been awhile since I built bikes and those kind of details add another layer of thought that needs to be put into it. If I built my own, I'd go with a Gates drive in full suspension, so I'd need a tensioner anyway..

I really like that website electricbike.com.. much more in-depth info for builders. Also, just noticed you said you were from DC. That's my hometown, so glad to meet another on here. Best roads on the east coast. Miss gliding from Georgetown to Constitution Ave. on those high speed roads late on summer nights after work. Nowhere else like it in the world!

Edit: One other question, can you search by parts for stock bike recs here? (i.e. suspension, IGH, frame size range, shifter type?) If not, that would be a super helpful add-on..

 

[xerxez]

When Juiced bikes tested the then recently enacted 3-class ebike law in California by introducing a rider-selectable unlimited “off road mode” on their CrossCurrent model which they sold labeled with a Class 3 sticker, I queried this in an email with the CA Office of the Attorney General and they were absolutely not interested in enforcing the ebike power/speed regulations on retailers, so Juiced now import electric mopeds without a VIN number that cannot be titled, registered, or insured, for riding on the street. It's possible it could get out of hand with riders killing themselves or pedestrians on streets or trails riding imports without mandated DOT safety equipment, ignoring trail speed limits, but locally here in DC dirt bikes/ATV's tend to be used more frequently when idiots engage in anti-social rider behavior. When electric scooters got out of hand cities/counties reacted with sidewalk/trail bans, and with the push gathering pace toward nationwide adoption of the 3-class ebike regs that's the most likely enforcement we might see moving forward - at a local level. OP is in Boston, MA, and Massbike is supporting the 3-class ebike legislation this year so it would be prudent for him to keep under the 750w nominal power rating, but I don't see how peak power can be enforced at the local level, only speed and rider behavior.

Why do you go looking for trouble?