Adjuting the power level in each assist mode using Bosch NYON

[Deacon Blues]

An ebike only shop that sells a lot of Bosch powered bikes (but not my bike's brand) told me it would take anywhere from 1 to 3 hours to do the Purion to Nyon swap.
At $80 per hour that could cost me as much as $240 in labour.
I'm waiting for a good Youtube video detailing a Purion to Nyon swap to become available (haven't found one yet), so I can tackle the job myself, but that would depend on how difficult the swap is.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

An ebike only shop that sells a lot of Bosch powered bikes (but not my bike's brand) told me it would take anywhere from 1 to 3 hours to do the Purion to Nyon swap.
At $80 per hour that could cost me as much as $240 in labour.

Many E-bike shops do the install for free if you purchase the hardware from them.
Sounds like they are trying to milk you. The key to retaining a good customer is to offer something in return. I know of 3-4 people just on this forum whose shops have agreed to the install for free if they purchased the hardware from them.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Hey all,

Some great banter above. I just wanted to interject a couple facts. The Bosch Nyon Retrofit Kit retails for $366.50. The kit includes all wiring needed to upgrade a system....i.e. going from a Purion to a Nyon. This, of course does ynot include labor from your LBS.

To turn off the work voice and turn on the EBR member voice, , I really do like the Nyon on my personal daily bike. Something that @Dallant mentioned, one of my favorite features of the Nyon, and also available on the Kiox is the ability to see human pedal power vs. motor power and then to have that information averaged and logged in my eBike Connect App. Both of these displays offer great educational benefits to riders trying to understand a pedal-assist or hybrid motor.

I really like the mapping on the Nyon as well--I don't gravitate toward turn-by turn in any navigation service I use, even while driving, but I enjoy the touch-screen map.

I am also a big nerd on the custom riding modes---I have been using them constantly and it creates a very interactive feel of my Active Line Plus drive unit experience. With a new software update, there is also the ability to see your cost savings while eBiking. You input the fuel price in your area, your average fuel consumption (car) and the average electricity price. It calculates all three of these to give you a cool graphic on savings. I'll post a pic shortly.

Thanks for sharing your insights, @Stephen - Bosch Team, very much appreciated.

Any idea if the Nyon would see Google map level detailing and integration with Strava or Garmin portals?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Thanks. Any wild guess as to labor estimate converting Purion to Kiox? I know there were discussions about having to "drop the motor" converting Purion to Nyon. Not sure what that means or if it is the same for the Kiox. I'll also ask the LBS about installed cost to see what they say.

depends on the bike too. my bulls was a pain they had to tear the whole front end apart to get the wire through it cost almost 20 because it took so long.

 

[Johnny]

That makes sense. Yes, you'd be able to use Nyon to adjust for that. You can move Eco up to be closer to Tour, or you can move Tour down to be closer to Eco. You can also fine tune different assistance levels at different speeds. For example: I keep my Eco around 50% support to start offer, but quickly taper to 25% at around 5 mph for very efficient riding, and carry the 25% till the final drop-off before 20 mph. I'll click up to a more supportive mode for hills, when carrying cargo, etc.

You could also leave Eco at it's normal start, and increase the support just at the higher speeds where you need a little bit more.

Very versatile in that regard.

Why can't you just implement custom ride modes for Kiox too? It should be straightforward.

The gps/navigation functionality is not necessary for everyone. Some people like to use their smartphones or watches, moreover the smaller form factor of kiox may be more desirable for some.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Why can't you just implement custom ride modes for Kiox too? It should be straightforward.

The gps/navigation functionality is not necessary for everyone. Some people like to use their smartphones or watches, moreover the smaller form factor of kiox may be more desirable for some.

ya I rather use other means for GPS. or have all in one device it needs a lot better syncing.

 

[jpa2825]

Yep, best bet is to ask your LBS. Too many factors otherwise.

LBS said about $60 + the cost of the computer. If both were available immediately, I'd pay the extra $100 and get the Nyon. Since that is not the case, I'll have to do a deep dive comparing the 2 and see if I can live with any missing features in exchange for the $ and time savings.

 

[fooferdoggie]

LBS said about $60 + the cost of the computer. If both were available immediately, I'd pay the extra $100 and get the Nyon. Since that is not the case, I'll have to do a deep dive comparing the 2 and see if I can live with any missing features in exchange for the $ and time savings.

having the Kiox I think I would go for the Nyon. being able to adjust the power levels is a great thing. but for the most part the Kiox works well. I don't use it for maps but at the time I did not know you could adjust power levels on the nyon.

 

[evosam]

Nyon allows adjustment of all 4 assistance modes, but only within maximum stock parameters. In other words, you can't set it to give you more top speed than your factory limit (whether your eBike is assist up to 20 mph, or assist up to 28 mph.) It also cannot be adjusted to give you more torque than the DU was originally spec'd with. Below is a slide we use for training... if you look at the cell phone screen on the left, you'll see Turbo/Mode 4 defaults at the max. level of assistance, and all 4 modes taper down to where the graph ends at 25 km/h (EU model), which would be 20 or 28 mph in the States, and 32 km/h in Canada.

To answer your question, Nyon will allow you to adjust for more torque/support in Eco, or less in Tour.
View attachment 83593

Hi folks,

Just got a Bosch powered bike with a Nyon (Riese and Müller Homage) and have a couple of quick questions I hope the wonderful and knowledgeable folks here could answer.

1- On the default values and how they relate to the factory tuned modes for Eco/Tour/Sport/MTB/Turbo. When you unlock the custom riding modes, do the default values map to those modes?
I think MTB mode on the CX motor is a more variable model, so is there a way to "simulate" that with the Customer Riding Mode?

2 - Between the CX mapping and the Speed motor mapping for the custom ride profiles, do they start off at the the same place, but the roll off and max is at 20 vs 28 or are there other differences?
Would the starting torque on the CX motor still be higher even with the motor assist values at the same levels if set on the Speed motor?
I have the Speed motor - if I wanted to customize 2 of the modes to behave more like the CX motor, what is the best way to do that?

Thanks so much

-Sam

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Hello @evosam, and congrats on the new bike!

Custom values should default to the factory values, from what I've seen. eMTB mode is removed from the equation though, and replaced with standard Sport mode for custom riding mode purposes. There is no way to use eMTB mode with custom modes, unfortunately.

Check out the Bosch eBike Systems product page at the link below- the graph with the technical info will tell you the % assist for each mode, on each DU. (scroll to bottom of page for the tech specs)

The motor: Powerful drive for eBikes

The mid-motor supports the eBike from gently to powerfully. The Bosch eBike drive is optimally tuned thanks to a precise sensor concept, allowing a natural riding sensation and riding fun.

www.bosch-ebike.com

 

[evosam]

Hello @evosam, and congrats on the new bike!

Custom values should default to the factory values, from what I've seen. eMTB mode is removed from the equation though, and replaced with standard Sport mode for custom riding mode purposes. There is no way to use eMTB mode with custom modes, unfortunately.

Check out the Bosch eBike Systems product page at the link below- the graph with the technical info will tell you the % assist for each mode, on each DU. (scroll to bottom of page for the tech specs)

The motor: Powerful drive for eBikes

The mid-motor supports the eBike from gently to powerfully. The Bosch eBike drive is optimally tuned thanks to a precise sensor concept, allowing a natural riding sensation and riding fun.

www.bosch-ebike.com

Hey William,

Thanks so much for the information - very informative!

So maybe a feature request (if possible) to the powers that be that could be considered in the future?
I would really love to be able to load in the semi-auto "+" modes into the user area vs only having the pre-set manual modes.

Cheers

-Sam

 

[Moonglow]

Hello @evosam, and congrats on the new bike!

Custom values should default to the factory values, from what I've seen. eMTB mode is removed from the equation though, and replaced with standard Sport mode for custom riding mode purposes. There is no way to use eMTB mode with custom modes, unfortunately.

Check out the Bosch eBike Systems product page at the link below- the graph with the technical info will tell you the % assist for each mode, on each DU. (scroll to bottom of page for the tech specs)

The motor: Powerful drive for eBikes

The mid-motor supports the eBike from gently to powerfully. The Bosch eBike drive is optimally tuned thanks to a precise sensor concept, allowing a natural riding sensation and riding fun.

www.bosch-ebike.com

Hi William, this is a helpful response thanks. I notice in most places the Bosh system and websites don't refer to the CargoLine Speed motor. Will this be fixed at some point do you know? What are the best specs/interpretation to be made in the meantime? ebike connect says its a performance line, is this the most comparable? (I did have to go check what was on the side of the bike when I saw that!)

Thanks

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Hi William, this is a helpful response thanks. I notice in most places the Bosh system and websites don't refer to the CargoLine Speed motor. Will this be fixed at some point do you know? What are the best specs/interpretation to be made in the meantime? ebike connect says its a performance line, is this the most comparable? (I did have to go check what was on the side of the bike when I saw that!)

Thanks

Hello!

This is likely due to the different regional websites. I'm not sure exactly which markets the Cargo Line Speed DU is available in, so it may not show up in all places. Some basic specs:

- 4th generation Bosch DU platform
- max torque: 85Nm
- max support: 400%
- assistance up to 45kph / 28mph
- more available support (up to 400%, based on load) at start-up as compared to a Performance Line Speed DU (up to 340%), but less "sporty" than the PLS, and support will taper off sooner at higher speeds to keep everything safer. In other words, designed to safely give you the support you need for a loaded cargo bike situation.

Please let me know if you have any additional or specific questions.

Thanks!