A Rad owner's impressions of the LBS

[larry-new]

Wow, what a lot of ebikes! Every single one with mid drive...hmmm.

Looking at the stickers, and factoring in 8.75% sales tax, I'm about a grand ahead with Rad. Ok.

 

[ebikemom]

My general, multi-brand LBS also only carries mid-drive bikes, none with throttles.

 

[Barry S]

I really tried to support my LBS, but the cheapest bikes started at $2500 and I knew those would lack the power to carry me up my hill to the house. The Specialized and Trek dealer have a couple of ebikes to satisfy the Brand's requirements, but it's not their bread and butter and you can't touch one of their models for less than $3k. We have a Pedego dealer on the windward side of the island, so I filled out the info on Pedego's website saying I was interested in knowing if they had any "Certified Pre-loved" bikes but never got a response. Finally, I went to the only ebike-only LBS and quickly realized the owner didn't know what he was selling. I later found out he was a former car salesman, which explained why I felt like I needed a shower when I left. In the end, I went with Rad Power Bikes and I'm only a month into ownership but I'm pleased with my purchase.

 

[AHicks]

I've tried several shops. The impression I'm left with is that they've never swung a leg over an e-bike, or if they have, it's just one type (a mid drive for instance). Too bad really. They're in a position to make a killing with just the little amount of trouble it would take to be able to carry on an intelligent conversation regarding them. Some shops don't seem to want to stoop to the level of considering the potential of the e-bike, let alone the market for them. Pity really. They could expand their potential market base exponentially by considering the needs of those not so fit, disabled, seniors etc. It's not like these people don't have the money for an e-bike. You can lead a horse to water......

 

[MikeDD]

I have been to a couple of LBS's. They both tried to sell me bikes that did not fit. The e-bike only shop did not tell me the special priced bike was last years model and that is why it was discounted. I will continue shopping, I will have to drive several hundred miles to try different bikes.

 

[larry-new]

I have been to a couple of LBS's. They both tried to sell me bikes that did not fit. The e-bike only shop did not tell me the special priced bike was last years model and that is why it was discounted. I will continue shopping, I will have to drive several hundred miles to try different bikes.

Last year's model matters here much more than with a push bike...as we're dealing with motors, batteries, software, and the like.

 

[riverrat61265]

yea i went to several local bike shops to see what was available and was pretty much nothing in ebikes, no mids no hubs nothin but a blank look in the salesmans face when asked. .whats funny is there is a market and its not like they dont sell expensive bike because in most cases its pretty easy to spot hot racing or mb setups going 3k and up. is it because not enough of the big retail brands sell ebikes or maybe they only can get the super expensive name brands that they already sell. probably depends a lot on what kiind of deal they have with their suppliers.

 

[CodyDog]

Hopefully as the market grows the LBS will carry more ebikes. We have a couple shops in the Austin area but the stock can be somewhat limited. I think they would sell more if there was more availiblity of floor models.

 

[scootscoot]

I've tried several shops. The impression I'm left with is that they've never swung a leg over an e-bike, or if they have, it's just one type (a mid drive for instance). Too bad really. They're in a position to make a killing with just the little amount of trouble it would take to be able to carry on an intelligent conversation regarding them. Some shops don't seem to want to stoop to the level of considering the potential of the e-bike, let alone the market for them. Pity really. They could expand their potential market base exponentially by considering the needs of those not so fit, disabled, seniors etc. It's not like these people don't have the money for an e-bike. You can lead a horse to water......

It's not just the brick/mortar shops. Ecommerce ebike manufacturers are horrendously under-informed about their own product. The geometry charts are laughably barebones. I actually had to dm juiced bikes just to get a horizontal top tube measurement. What bike company on the planet doesn't have an "ett" measurement in their geometry chart?!?

You have every right to compare price, but at least the established bike brands understand how to design a bicycle and can speak in an intelligent, informed way about every aspect of frame and component design, usually in far greater detail than you would ever care to know. And there's no question that specialized, giant or trek will back their warranty. You can't even get a lot of these direct to buyer brands to pick up on the phone or answer an email, much less solve the problem in a timely manner. Not without badgering or multiple complaints to the bbb.

There is a new seller promoting their brand on this site, and they didn't even bother to double check their geometry chart. They claimed everyone from 5'4" to 6'4" fits perfectly but listed a 32" standover which would make it impossible for someone 5'4" to ride safely. What other mistakes and oversights did they never bother to double check or notice on their own website? If everyone within a foot range fits, why do the major bicycle brands have four or five sizes for their bikes instead of one? Clearly, a 5'4" vs 6'4" rider have different sizing requirements. This is just common sense.

The reality is, the majority of direct to buyer ebike companies are using a generic frame. They have zero input into frame design and know absolutely nothing about frame geometry or tube design. They don't know anything about frame design because these frames, batteries and controllers are all "off the rack." They point to a stock item in a catalog from china, order in lots of several hundred apiece, and hope for the best.

I haven't visited any ebike specific bike shops. It's certainly possible that many employees and owners of these shops are under-informed. But even the most casual survey of ebike online retailers clearly demonstrates that they know very little about frame design, bicycle components, and sometimes almost nothing about electronics.

I am leaning towards a direct to consumer brand because of price, but there are significant disadvantages and risks. As is the case with buying from an established bike brand. These are the early wild west days of ebikes so expect chaos.

 

[larry-new]

You can't even get a lot of these direct to buyer brands to pick up on the phone or answer an email, much less solve the problem in a timely manner.

Every single time I've called Rad to ask a technical question, I've been able to speak with knowledgeable person. The reports from other owners on this site are the main reason I bought this bike. Couldn't be happier!

 

[AHicks]

Scootscoot,
My point was not that all bike shop employees were ignorant, rather it was they hadn't the motivation required to educate themselves about e-bikes. E.G. the relative differences in why a client might/should prefer a direct drive vs. a gear drive, or mid motor vs. rear. Not that they couldn't learn it, only that they haven't, and the only ones hurting for that decision are themselves.

 

[CodyDog]

Scootscoot,
My point was not that all bike shop employees were ignorant, rather it was they hadn't the motivation required to educate themselves about e-bikes. E.G. the relative differences in why a client might/should prefer a direct drive vs. a gear drive, or mid motor vs. rear. Not that they couldn't learn it, only that they haven't, and the only ones hurting for that decision are themselves.

I think ignorance and lack of motivation have a lot in common, at least when talking about customer service.

There is a LBS in Austin that has several locations and sells traditional and ebikes. They carry Trek, Specialized, Electra and iZip. One location has at least a dozen models in stock and the others a few. They show very little excitement and knowledge when it comes to the ebikes. I think one of the reasons is because the employees themselves ride pedal bikes instead of ebikes. It is as if they aren't interested in the ebikes. Most of the employees are in their early 30's or younger.

With that being said, places like the the EBR make pioneering this new mode of biking much easier.

 

[AHicks]

Yes, age of employees/sales staff very likely has a lot to do with it. If you can't get excited about it, you're going to have a difficult time selling it.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Last year's model matters here much more than with a push bike...as we're dealing with motors, batteries, software, and the like.

I don't think last year's bike is a deal breaker. For myself, it was a deal maker. I bought a two year old Haibike at a significant discount; basically dealer cost. Yamaha still makes the motor, and the battery was shipped in sleep mode. I have tested it and it holds a full charge.

You can have a good or bad experience with buying a bike online or from a brick-and-mortar store, regular bike or e-bike. All one can do is do a bit of research beforehand, and cross your fingers.

 

[cayjak]

Where we live there are no dedicated e-bike dealers. One big LBS, where they might have a e-bike if it was taken in on trade, but that's it. I was totally dependent on the online sources for my education. Our first e-bike was a step-thru Stunner from Biktrix in Saskatoon, Canada. Purchase was based solely on how it looked in photos AND on their sterling online reputation. Turned out to be a perfect bike for my wife.

Our second e-bike resulted from a Kickstarter campaign run by GeoOrbital. I signed up as a supporter and received two of their electric wheels. I have only used one of them - first on a old Motobecane 10-speed diamond frame, and then on the MiniPenny frame from GeoOrbital. The MiniPenny is a HOOT to ride around the neighborhood, but not much exercise. I still have the second (brand new totally unused) wheel in the original shipping box with all accessories. It is for sale (locally) for a bargain price of $600, but has generated little interest.

Our third e-bike resulted from a test ride, of sorts. We are RVer's, and at one of our club get-togethers a friend showed up with a RadMini. Seeing how it folded up and stored in his cargo bay whet my interest. One ride and I was sold! Ordered ours as soon as we returned home.

Our forth e-bike is a mid-drive conversion on a trike I had owned for many years, using a motor/battery kit from Luna. I learned all about kits from my reading on forums like this one. I believe the online forums that cater to the e-bike crowd play a BIG part in raising public awareness and selling these items. Even if you live way out in the boonies with no local e-bike retailers, you can still learn all you need to know to make a educated and rewarding purchase - it just takes a little time and effort.

 

[Alaskan]

In this internet age, it is possible to buy from a Bricks and Mortar Shop far from where you live. Propel in Brooklyn NY and San Diego Fly Rides are great sellers of quality bikes that ship all over the USA. They both have very knowledgeable staff, offer free shipping in the US and have a great inventory of quality bikes.

It seems that the market for hub driven e-bikes is dominated by mail order, or internet based sales with no local service. This makes it tough for bricks and mortar bike shops to compete as the tight margins will not support a retail establishment with on-staff mechanics and warranty service.

Most of the older, tested and respected brands like Trek, Specialized, Bulls, Haibike, Giant, Raleigh, Cube offer mid drive bikes rather hub driven bikes.

It boils down to what you want and what you value. If lowest price is primary for you, buy on line and take your chances on reliability and service. If you are a good mechanic this will reduce your risk of ending up paying as much or more than buying local.

If you value expert advice, good warranty service, the opportunity to test ride, supporting local business, then you will have to step up and pay more at a LBS.

In the Northwest we are blessed with many ebike shops.

Seattle has several knowledgeable ebike dealers. Before I bought my first ebike I spent two full days learning and test riding.

Seattle Folding and Electric Bike 22 years in business - huge selection - many brands - Specialized - EMotion - Stromer - Blix - Wallerang - Vintage - Faraday - Giant Orbea
G & O Family Cyclery Smart, friendly, patient, wide selection - Riese & Muller - Escta Cycle - Yuba - Tern - Bullit - Kalkhoff
Seattle Electric Bike - Bulls - Dube - Felt - Raleigh - Magnum - Kalkhoff - Haibike - Tern
Seattle E-Bike - Urban Arrow - Wallerang - Blix - Easy Motion - E-Prodigy - Stromer

In addition Rad Power Bikes headquarters are in Seattle with a showroom.

Portland has quite a few as does Vancouver in Canada

 

[Alex M]

Wow, what a lot of ebikes! Every single one with mid drive...hmmm.

Looking at the stickers, and factoring in 8.75% sales tax, I'm about a grand ahead with Rad. Ok.

Mid motors blend in, bike looks fancier, sportier. To many people looks matter a lot. I guess convincing a first-time e-buyer is easier when you show him a mid, as long as he's got enough in his pocket. Those who don't have enough, are shopping differently.

Any LBS bike comparable to Rad will cost at least $700 more, and there are valid reasons for this. Also don't forget that Rad today cost $200 more than a month ago, because of tariffs.

 

[Alaskan]

I don't want to get into a back and forth but there are plenty of reasons to prefer a mid drive bike besides looks.

There is a reason those who make and sell bikes that they have to stand behind with trained personnel, parts availability and distribution, etc., overwhelmingly lean towards mid drive bikes.

There are also many serious riders who prefer them for reasons far more meaningful than looks, like hill climbing ability, range, durability and reliability.

 

[AHicks]

For the cost of the components, it would seem to me like an established brick and mortar shop could keep the techs busy during slow periods by having them build a store brand direct drive rear hub bike using components that have been carefully chosen by experts already on staff. These "custom" bikes could be quickly assembled with a minimum amount of labor and sold at very competitive prices while making enough profit where occasional loses due to unreimbursed warranty claims would not break the bank.

This can't be that difficult for them to see, and would involve just a minimum amount of money to make the required "leap of faith" to get their feet wet. So the question is, why are they not doing this?

I can pretty much guarantee you it's not because there is a shortage of reasonable quality parts. A shop should have no trouble building and selling 10-20 of these a season, and with quantities like that, should have NO trouble figuring out who they can trust as far as importers/suppliers. Some already have great reputations if you do any homework on the topic at all (Leafbike.com for instance).

We know this e-bike game is in it's infancy, much like PC computers were in the early 90's. This build your own approach, using fairly decent quality components, made a lot of shops a LOT of money - with the more successful turning into manufacturers that made mountains of money......

 

[Alex M]

For the cost of the components, it would seem to me like an established brick and mortar shop could keep the techs busy during slow periods by having them build a store brand direct drive rear hub bike using components that have been carefully chosen by experts already on staff. These "custom" bikes could be quickly assembled with a minimum amount of labor and sold at very competitive prices while making enough profit where occasional loses due to unreimbursed warranty claims would not break the bank.

This can't be that difficult for them to see, and would involve just a minimum amount of money to make the required "leap of faith" to get their feet wet. So the question is, why are they not doing this?

I can pretty much guarantee you it's not because there is a shortage of reasonable quality parts

Blame consumers . Many people are after cheaper bikes, quality is not always easy to recognize. Chinese components like batteries, motors, controllers etc come and go like flood waters in spring, same murky in terms of transparency, pun intended. This sector is growing/changing too fast. Non-power parts - yes, makes sense using better parts, but then it hits the cost of goods.

I guess this is about business model that shop owner is comfortable with. Some prefer making money on cheap imports, some add more expensive brands with dealership service, some go into "factory-direct sales" (which is basically cheap imports, with added warranty and post-warranty replacement).

Assembling labor is many-many times cheaper in China, tariffs unlikely will tip the balance enough for the US industry to work. Other than economic blockade I don't even know what "could" possibly change this, now it's too late for this either, China has spread over the globe, they own metal and other factories in lower-income countries of Europe, Africa and Latin America.