"A groundbreaking e-bike measure..." Could have implications for all U.S.

[J.R.]

Ok, thanks for that. Indeed, there is something going on in the NL. But luckily helmet makers are awake and "making an effort in developing a helmet specifically for speed e-bike usage. It must look like a bicycle helmet, but have to meet the ECE-2205 standard for motorcycle & moped helmets." So, hopefully that means something lighter and vented but still conforming to standard.

About regulations and directives in the EU. Regulations are binding legislation in the member countries from the day they enter to force. Directives are usually transposed to national legislation and there the responsibility is on the Member State to get it right, but there is a bit more flexibility.

The free market will respond if lawmakers are short sighted. It's good that helmet makers are designing helmets that can work for everyone! It's not a bad thing to have standards, it may add cost to helmets. Here in the US I can remember when Snell & DOT testing costs were added to the cost of MC helmets, it was significant. I'm glad the standards are in place though, so we know what we are paying for.

 

[Mike leroy]

I talked with a CHP motorcycle cop on Woodside/Canada roads in Woodside, CA today. The cop was running one of his favorite speed traps. My area is one of the most highly enforced areas in our county due to motorcycle accidents/death rate. I believe skyline blvd, in Woodside, CA, is one of the highest, if not the highest, motorcycle accident/death prone areas in the U.S.

​

The cop said he does not care about e-bikes when the motors are limited to 20mph. I told him the bike I plan to buy looks like a motorcycle. I told him I want to avoid getting pulled over for being mistaken as a dirt bike without license plates. He re-iterated speed was the issue. He also told me to show the bike to my local PD to get their take.

I saw hundreds of bicyclists as I ran down Canada Rd. to the store today. At least 100 bicyclists in one group alone. The bicyclist groups sometimes take over the road and bully cars. I have actually seen a gang of bicyclists surrounding a rude car driver. It was a sensation that made the news. Some bicyclists are so out of control that they have completely annoyed the Woodside residents.

Bicyclists are ticketed by cops on a consistent basis on Canada Rd. I run on the trail along the road. Almost every time a cop car pulls bicyclists over and tickets them for running the stop sign. The bicyclists are clearly discriminated against. I never see cars pulled over by the cops. The cops are easier on motorcycles than bicyclists. The bicyclists are a moving road obstacle, like farm tractors.

I do not want my e-bike to resemble a bicycle at all. I want it to look like a motorcycle because the cops hate bicycles on Canada Rd. I can guarantee the cops will crack down on the S-Pedelecs. All they need to see is a bicycle going over 30mph. The cops will have a field day, because the bike lane is too narrow. The S-pedelecs will have to pass in the narrow, single car lane.

​

Riding an ebike in Woodside will provoke trouble. I think Woodside will make eBikes illegal.

I am better off with a 4000-6000 watt CA M1 "motorized cycle". I can ride in the 35mph car lane without worry of being pulled over. I do not want to be restricted to the bike lane. Most casual bicyclists pedal too slowly, two abreast. The other speed mismatch is the serious racing crowd who pedal at A decent pace, but are impassable because they can be two abreast for 50+ bikes. Cars cannot pass with oncoming traffic. The cars are forced to drive under the speed limit for long stretches. In the curvy sections the roads are completely impassable.

 

[lilrich1959]

Being a lifelong motorcyclist I have been a member since it's inception of a wonderful organization called ABATE which stands for A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments. Originally formed to lobby and fight against restrictive motorcycle helmet, and equipment laws and regulations. They now fight against all laws and regulations that discriminate against motorcyclist. One of the most successful and longest lived populist movements they have chapters nationwide and have preserved the freedom of motorcyclists.
Taking up the cause of motorcycle safety and awareness where lawmakers failed they have implemented training programs and requirements in many state transportation departments. These two initiatives have reduced injuries and fatalities as well as fostered good will with the non cycling community. When helmet manufactures and insurance industry continued to pressure lawmakers to restrict freedoms they continued to fight on.
While not always successful I think their model of brotherhood and commitment to preserve freedom and inject common sense into the laws regulating us all should be something to seriously consider. Rather than sitting back and letting others dictate how we are to live our lives, they refuse to give in. I think the flourishing of the motorcycling industry and growth from a despised minority to mainstream is testament to the effectiveness of that approach.
Just my humble opinion, but I think a lot less grumbling among ourselves and a bit more activism is called for. After all this is America and we are supposed to have a voice. If we do nothing we have no one to blame if we get rolled over by those who do not have our best interest in heart. Blackstone a giant in the legal field once said " The law in it's equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread and sleeping under bridges" . Think about that the next time your starving. Who did you let decide where you can find your next meal?
I like to ride, where and when and as fast as I want to, without special equipment. I use common sense, and respect others. Do the same for me, leave me and my freedom alone....JMHO.....Ride On

 

[Bike_On]

I talked with a CHP motorcycle cop on Woodside/Canada roads in Woodside, CA today. The cop was running one of his favorite speed traps. My area is one of the most highly enforced areas in our county due to motorcycle accidents/death rate. I believe skyline blvd, in Woodside, CA, is one of the highest, if not the highest, motorcycle accident/death prone areas in the U.S.

View attachment 2951​

The cop said he does not care about e-bikes when the motors are limited to 20mph. I told him the bike I plan to buy looks like a motorcycle. I told him I want to avoid getting pulled over for being mistaken as a dirt bike without license plates. He re-iterated speed was the issue. He also told me to show the bike to my local PD to get their take.

I saw hundreds of bicyclists as I ran down Canada Rd. to the store today. At least 100 bicyclists in one group alone. The bicyclist groups sometimes take over the road and bully cars. I have actually seen a gang of bicyclists surrounding a rude car driver. It was a sensation that made the news. Some bicyclists are so out of control that they have completely annoyed the Woodside residents.

Bicyclists are ticketed by cops on a consistent basis on Canada Rd. I run on the trail along the road. Almost every time a cop car pulls bicyclists over and tickets them for running the stop sign. The bicyclists are clearly discriminated against. I never see cars pulled over by the cops. The cops are easier on motorcycles than bicyclists. The bicyclists are a moving road obstacle, like farm tractors.

I do not want my e-bike to resemble a bicycle at all. I want it to look like a motorcycle because the cops hate bicycles on Canada Rd. I can guarantee the cops will crack down on the S-Pedelecs. All they need to see is a bicycle going over 30mph. The cops will have a field day, because the bike lane is too narrow. The S-pedelecs will have to pass in the narrow, single car lane.

View attachment 2950​

Riding an ebike in Woodside will provoke trouble. I think Woodside will make eBikes illegal.

I am better off with a 4000-6000 watt CA M1 "motorized cycle". I can ride in the 35mph car lane without worry of being pulled over. I do not want to be restricted to the bike lane. Most casual bicyclists pedal too slowly, two abreast. The other speed mismatch is the serious racing crowd who pedal at A decent pace, but are impassable because they can be two abreast for 50+ bikes. Cars cannot pass with oncoming traffic. The cars are forced to drive under the speed limit for long stretches. In the curvy sections the roads are completely impassable.

You want a fast ebike. You want an ebike like a motorcycle, you want an electric motorcycle..... You might be overthinking this.

Remember the creed: real ebikes are bicycles first, motorcycles second.

If you want the power to outrun the cycle pelaton and keep up w 35mph traffic, you will have to deal with the DMV. This class of ebikes are even less mainstream and aliated than the main sub 20 mph class. Hard to find friends there.

Get a bike you like and ride it smart, safe and under the radar . Don't give people a reason to be haters.

Good rides.
Bikeon

 

[Mike leroy]

With these 3 proposed classes, I fear that price will align with bike class. It's basically what's happening in Europe for countries that allow S-Pedelecs. The price of Speed Pedelecs is often much higher than the sub-25km/h Pedelec counterparts. Yet the difference in components often doesn't warrant such a huge difference. If you use Bikefinder and search for a 25km/h Pedelec under 3000 Euros, you will be proposed a whopping 1161 bikes. But if you run the same search for 45 km/h bikes, only 9 results will be returned. Yet there are 161 Speed Pedelecs in the database. So the conclusion is that over 95% of Speed Pedelecs cost more than 3000 Euros. It should be noted that all of the Speed Pedelec entries under 3000 Euros seem to have older generation drives.

Do S-Pedelecs cause accidents in your town due to the mismatch of speeds?

I am almost certain Woodside, CA will outlaw all eBikes . On any given afternoon, I see more bicycles on Canada Road than cars and motorcycles combined. Canada Road is my favorite running trail. I run to the store and carry groceries back. Yesterday, I probably carried 25 to 35 pounds of groceries up a 12% hill, for about a half to one mile. I want an eBike to make the trip faster, but not less strenuous. Here is my proof, $100 of food:

​

Canada Road is a single 35mph car lane with a standard bike lane. The typical bicyclist pair saunters uphill at a casual pace, probably 10mph. The one Pedego Ebike in town passes bicyclists at twice the speed in the car lane. The speed mismatch forces eBikers to pass in the single car lane. Motorists are already impatient and fed up with groups of bicyclists two to four abreast. Motorists will hate to deal with S-Pedelecs weaving in and out of the car lane.

SPedelecs are nothing but trouble for bicyclists and motorists. Bicyclists are ticketed by cops on a daily basis on Canada Road. The cops will crack down on SPedelecs for safety reasons. The Town of Woodside will certainly make all eBikes illegal.

 

[Mike leroy]

You want a fast ebike. You want an ebike like a motorcycle, you want an electric motorcycle..... You might be overthinking this.

Remember the creed: real ebikes are bicycles first, motorcycles second.

If you want the power to outrun the cycle pelaton and keep up w 35mph traffic, you will have to deal with the DMV. This class of ebikes are even less mainstream and aliated than the main sub 20 mph class. Hard to find friends there.

Get a bike you like and ride it smart, safe and under the radar . Don't give people a reason to be haters.

Good rides.
Bikeon

I am certain eBikes will become illegal in Woodside, CA. That is why I want a DMV registered "motorized cycle". The cops will harass eBikers worse than bicyclists.

 

[PowerMe]

I'm not seeing what is "groundbreaking" about this law. If the bike is ridden like a bike, at the speeds of a normal bike, then it will be treated as a bike. If a bike is equipped to go faster than a regular bike could normally go, then it jumps into another class. That's kind of how this has shaken out all along the way.

Helmet wearing is a separate issue, one I support. Although in the early 80's when I had a moped in Arizona I didn't wear a helmet and there was no law to wear one, which freaks me out when I think about it today.

 

[Mike leroy]

I'm not seeing what is "groundbreaking" about this law. If the bike is ridden like a bike, at the speeds of a normal bike, then it will be treated as a bike. If a bike is equipped to go faster than a regular bike could normally go, then it jumps into another class. That's kind of how this has shaken out all along the way.

Helmet wearing is a separate issue, one I support. Although in the early 80's when I had a moped in Arizona I didn't wear a helmet and there was no law to wear one, which freaks me out when I think about it today.

Yes, I agree the legality is not the issue.

The publicity the law generates is the issue. Ebikes are unheard of and unseen in my area -- exactly like the mountain lions sighted only once a week in my area. Sonders raised the national consciousness of ebikes. Bicycles are a flashpoint in my area. The ABSOLUTE last thing eBikes need are legal attention. The eBike manufactures have screwed themselves in my area. My neighborhood is probably unrepresentative of the USA, as a whole. I am telling my personal viewpoint and how this mistake affects me personally. That's all!

 

[PowerMe]

I used to live in Redwood City (on Kentfield) so I know Woodside and Canada Rd! So gorgeous, but yeah steep roads up there. eBikes can be stealth(y) if they are ridden like regular bikes at a normal speed of less than 20mph, but that requires a person to be willing to do so.

 

[Mike leroy]

I used to live in Redwood City (on Kentfield) so I know Woodside and Canada Rd! So gorgeous, but yeah steep roads up there. eBikes can be stealth(y) if they are ridden like regular bikes at a normal speed of less than 20mph, but that requires a person to be willing to do so.

I think the bicyclists will complain and legislate eBikes out of existence in my area. Legislation will probably take a serious accident involving a car, bicycle(s) and eBike. I can tell you so many stories about motorcycles and bicycles wrapped around Redwood trees down in unaccessible canyons that I hike. Some places are extremely dangerous. Just witness the crosses nailed to Redwood trees along Kings Mountain Rd. I have hiked all the marked an unmarked trails surrounding KM road. Absolutely frightening.

​

This is Kings Mountain Road only a few hundred yards from the above picture. This is reality in my neighborhood. A deer caused this accident. The car completely rolled. I was hiking in the canyon below trying to find a way to retrieve the motorcycle wrapped around the tree in the above picture. Completely inaccessible, as I tried many different unmarked trails from different vantage points. Witness the hillside steepness in the following picture.

I was one of the first responders, because I was directly below the accident. I heard the entire incident, almost directly above my head!

The legal approach is a slippery slope. Ebikes are in the minority and will lose legislative wars. This legislative act is pure stupidity from my local viewpoint. Nothing good will result of this kind of attention.

 

[Mike leroy]

Overall there probably still aren't enough statistics for that class specifically, as it's relatively new. But it's bicycle safety in general that has to be improved.

You've got to keep in mind that many people who buy these 45km/h bikes only do so to overcome the 25km/h cutoff limit. Your average speed on a typical day in Geneva during rush hour is going to be around 10-14 mph on a bicycle, and probably around 18-22mph in a car. But at big intersections you've got to move fast on a bicycle, and a Speed Pedelec helps you stay with the traffic flow. So being able to go faster is actually a safety feature if you know how to use it intelligently. Unlike a regular bicycle, a Speed Pedelec has a license plate number here. The fact that you can be identified personally means that when you use this type of bike there is a strong incentive to follow the law. So you won't see many speed Pedelecs slaloming up a queue of cars. It's illegal for mopeds and S-Pedelecs to do that here...

My point was, and it's more of an open question here, do you think that the 3 class law is being made for "commercial reasons"? In other words, will a given class of bike correspond to a given price point?

Yes, I absolutely agree with the commercial motivation.
I think other groups will take this example an run away with it to the detriment of eBikers. Take a look at the picture in my post of the accident. This is what my area is like on a regular basis. Very dangerous.

 

[PowerMe]

My point was, and it's more of an open question here, do you think that the 3 class law is being made for "commercial reasons"? In other words, will a given class of bike correspond to a given price point?

It may end up that way but no, I don't think that's the purpose of the law or why the law was written.

 

[Bike_On]

I think the bicyclists will complain and legislate eBikes out of existence in my area. Legislation will probably take a serious accident involving a car, bicycle(s) and eBike. I can tell you so many stories about motorcycles and bicycles wrapped around Redwood trees down in unaccessible canyons that I hike. Some places are extremely dangerous. Just witness the crosses nailed to Redwood trees along Kings Mountain Rd. I have hiked all the marked an unmarked trails surrounding KM road. Absolutely frightening.

View attachment 2953
​

This is Kings Mountain Road only a few hundred yards from the above picture. This is reality in my neighborhood. A deer caused this accident. The car completely rolled. I was hiking in the canyon below trying to find a way to retrieve the motorcycle wrapped around the tree in the above picture. Completely inaccessible, as I tried many different unmarked trails from different vantage points. Witness the hillside steepness in the following picture.

I was one of the first responders, because I was directly below the accident. I heard the entire incident, almost directly above my head!

View attachment 2954​

The legal approach is a slippery slope. Ebikes are in the minority and will lose legislative wars. This legislative act is pure stupidity from my local viewpoint. Nothing good will result of this kind of attention.

Nothing worth doing is easy, including the introduction and mainstreaming of ebikes.

 

[Mike leroy]

It may end up that way but no, I don't think that's the purpose of the law or why the law was written.

To me this like Newt Gingrich. He had sown the seeds of his own destruction. Be low key and fly under the radar. Projecting a high profile benefits nobody. I am absolutely convinced eBikes will become illegal in my neighborhood. You have no idea how politically charged bicycles are in my neighborhood. I am sure my community is very atypical of America, as a whole.

Legal solutions are a losing proposition on my neighborhood. Absolute stupidity!

 

[Bike_On]

Do S-Pedelecs cause accidents in your town due to the mismatch of speeds?

I am almost certain Woodside, CA will outlaw all eBikes . On any given afternoon, I see more bicycles on Canada Road than cars and motorcycles combined. Canada Road is my favorite running trail. I run to the store and carry groceries back. Yesterday, I probably carried 25 to 35 pounds of groceries up a 12% hill, for about a half to one mile. I want an eBike to make the trip faster, but not less strenuous. Here is my proof, $100 of food:

View attachment 2952​

Canada Road is a single 35mph car lane with a standard bike lane. The typical bicyclist pair saunters uphill at a casual pace, probably 10mph. The one Pedego Ebike in town passes bicyclists at twice the speed in the car lane. The speed mismatch forces eBikers to pass in the single car lane. Motorists are already impatient and fed up with groups of bicyclists two to four abreast. Motorists will hate to deal with S-Pedelecs weaving in and out of the car lane.

SPedelecs are nothing but trouble for bicyclists and motorists. Bicyclists are ticketed by cops on a daily basis on Canada Road. The cops will crack down on SPedelecs for safety reasons. The Town of Woodside will certainly make all eBikes illegal.

You know, all bikes can cause accidents. The culture just has to get use to the changes and adjust.

 

[Mike leroy]

You know, all bikes can cause accidents. The culture just has to get use to the changes and adjust.

I took two pictures today. Do you think cars, motorcycles, bikes and eBikes will co-exist without conflict? The situation is very contentious today. I think eBikes just encroach on a very constrained resource.

I do not want to take the risk on an eBike. I will buy an eMotorBike, so I have guaranteed rights to the full car lane, like a motorcycle. I want the pedal exercise. I am looking to replace my car with a more healthy and clean form of transportation.

​

 

[Brambor]

You think by going 20 miles faster you will coexist better with the cars? I have 2 Vespa Mopeds and I think they are probably more nuissance than I am on my eBike. First of all I am in a bike lane and the cars can just ride in their lane. On a moped, I am blocking the car lane with a slow moving sub 50 mph moped.

http://www.counton2.com
http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/southeast/2011/04/04/184042.htm
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index.php/topic/243911-they-shoud-ban-mopeds/

 

[PowerMe]

Good point, Brambor! Today I was driving back from my LBS and there was a scooter in front of me on the road, going 25 mph. I confess it was annoying though I reminded myself I used to have a scooter/noped in college and it only went 25 mph max so I calmed down and had some empathy for that rider.

 

[Mike leroy]

You think by going 20 miles faster you will coexist better with the cars? I have 2 Vespa Mopeds and I think they are probably more nuissance than I am on my eBike. First of all I am in a bike lane and the cars can just ride in their lane. On a moped, I am blocking the car lane with a slow moving sub 50 mph moped.

http://www.counton2.com
http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/southeast/2011/04/04/184042.htm
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index.php/topic/243911-they-shoud-ban-mopeds/

Take a look at the pictures in the previous post. The truck had to cross the double lines to pass the recumbent bike. Cars and bikes are notorious for NOT getting along today.

The speed limit is 35mph on both roads. I would be moving at the same speed as traffic on a 4500W eMotorBike.

The bus takes up the entire lane. The safest lane is the fast lane. The road shoulder is not a bike lane -- bikers are prohibited. The shoulder is for street parking. The bus is in the bike lane.

You can see the bike share symbol on the road below the 35mph sign. How in the world can a 1000W do 35mph up a 10% grade? Impossible!

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)​

 

[Mike leroy]

Good point, Brambor! Today I was driving back from my LBS and there was a scooter in front of me on the road, going 25 mph. I confess it was annoying though I reminded myself I used to have a scooter/noped in college and it only went 25 mph max so I calmed down and had some empathy for that rider.

The bicycles in the pictures were hindering traffic just like the mopeds, except at 15mph in a 35mph lane. All of the residents are annoyed with bikes. I do not want to compound the tense situation by weaving in and out of the bike lane by passing bikers at 20+ mph.

EBikes will only make everyone more nervous. The smart strategy that most two wheeled vehicles use is to ride in the fast lane. The following bikes are not turning left. They are coasting at 40mph!

I also want the legal right to occupy the fast lane. Motorcycle license plates give me that right, without worry about cops hassling me, like they do to cyclists.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)​