750w Bafang vs 500w Ananda

[Imchud]

Hello all,
I have a quick question regarding Mid-Drive specs - I am in the process of purchasing a new e-bike. Currently, I own a Magnum Metro 750 (hub drive). - I love my Metro, but wanted something with more push (torque) to help with the hills. I'm a big guy (6'3 - 300/lbs) so, I wanted to upgrade to a Mid-drive that offered the more torque I was after. My two choices (for around $3000) were the Dost (kope chain) or the New Magnum Pilot. The Dost seemed to check all my boxes, and It has a "Bafang BBS-02" 750-watt Mid-Drive, with 120Nm of torque. Whereas the Magnum Pilot had an "Ananda" (which I never heard of) 500-watt Mid-drive with, 130Nm of torque. they both seem like great choices, however, I am confused... how can a 500-watt have almost the same, and in this case, more torque than a 750-watt? A 2nd question... which do you think would be the best choice? I also thought about a Biktrex model... Your thoughts?...Thanks.

 

[m@Robertson]

A sort of open secret with ebike motors is the wattage rating is almost meaningless. It arguably only exists due to a motor maker's need to pay lip service to regulatory concerns. The unit of measure that really matters is torque output. If anything wattage IS a way to roughly determine whether a motor is stressed to handle sustained output, where 'more' watts simply means the motor is more capable of pumping current thru it for long periods of time without it overheating or burning out. But this is SO wildly variable that it too is not a particularly useful way of thinking on what a motor can take.

If I were in your shoes, faced with the comparison of a no-name motor versus one that is in extremely wide use the world over, which has some known weak spots (its the lighter-duty motor in the company's product range) but also borders on a household name in the DIY electric bike community, I'd go with the Bafang. There are a zillion Youtube vids on how to work on it, a wide range of aftermarket upgrades, and the internet is filled with people who know all about them. One thing in particular you can point to immediately: The BBS02 has a rich settings interface that is easily accessible and allows you to make huge changes to the motor's behavior to take it head and shoulders above its user-friendliness from the factory (note I did not say make it more powerful. I'm referring to smoothing off its rough edges and making it smoother and gentler).

On the subject of the two different motors' torque ratings: The BBS02 is a known quantity and its well known to be able to provide ample assistance up steep hills, even under medium cargo loads. The Ananda... who knows? One thing you can count on is that neither of them is telling the unvarnished truth when it comes to the actual output you will see at the pavement. The 160 Nm BBSHD has enough power to climb any slope no matter how steep (if you have the gearing to go with it), and even so when put on a dyno recently a BBSHD equipped bike (this is the more powerful motor from Bafang) only measured 53 Nm. Figure every motor manufacturer measures torque at the axle... not at the ground.

Dyno Testing Ebikes and more!

Electric Bike Dyno Testing

area13ebikes.com

 

[juggernaut]

I have Bafang Ultra and Ananda powered e-bikes. The Ananda is a cracker of a motor. Little is known about these motors as e-bike manufacturers usually rebrand them as their own.

I did buy mine from my local bike shop since if I had any problems I could count on my warranty through my LBS. They are a silent motor and are not lacking in the power/torque department. For this reason I find myself using PAS level 1 virtually all day the time. Mine was unlocked by the LBS at purchase to 42klms/hr but can ride faster than this and only limited by my cadence/chainring size.

So impressed with the power and delivery I bought my wife the step through version of my bike last Mother’s Day. Hers is also unlocked and loves riding it too, also only using PAS 1 of 9.

For what it’s worth Ravi uses this motor (perhaps with custom tuning) in the ZEN Photon. So he would be your best source of info through this forum. According to Ravi the Bafang engineers also developed the Ananda motor.

Pics of our bikes for attention

 

[Imchud]

A sort of open secret with ebike motors is the wattage rating is almost meaningless. It arguably only exists due to a motor maker's need to pay lip service to regulatory concerns. The unit of measure that really matters is torque output. If anything wattage IS a way to roughly determine whether a motor is stressed to handle sustained output, where 'more' watts simply means the motor is more capable of pumping current thru it for long periods of time without it overheating or burning out. But this is SO wildly variable that it too is not a particularly useful way of thinking on what a motor can take.

If I were in your shoes, faced with the comparison of a no-name motor versus one that is in extremely wide use the world over, which has some known weak spots (its the lighter-duty motor in the company's product range) but also borders on a household name in the DIY electric bike community, I'd go with the Bafang. There are a zillion Youtube vids on how to work on it, a wide range of aftermarket upgrades, and the internet is filled with people who know all about them. One thing in particular you can point to immediately: The BBS02 has a rich settings interface that is easily accessible and allows you to make huge changes to the motor's behavior to take it head and shoulders above its user-friendliness from the factory (note I did not say make it more powerful. I'm referring to smoothing off its rough edges and making it smoother and gentler).

On the subject of the two different motors' torque ratings: The BBS02 is a known quantity and its well known to be able to provide ample assistance up steep hills, even under medium cargo loads. The Ananda... who knows? One thing you can count on is that neither of them is telling the unvarnished truth when it comes to the actual output you will see at the pavement. The 160 Nm BBSHD has enough power to climb any slope no matter how steep (if you have the gearing to go with it), and even so when put on a dyno recently a BBSHD equipped bike (this is the more powerful motor from Bafang) only measured 53 Nm. Figure every motor manufacturer measures torque at the axle... not at the ground.

Dyno Testing Ebikes and more!

Electric Bike Dyno Testing

area13ebikes.com

M@robertson,
Thank you so much for sharing. I wish they made it easier to understand when they talk about Motor power, watts, torque, Etc. Especially for some of us who kind of get the idea, but really are only at the mercy of the manufacturer of the motor, but more so the bike manufacturers and what kind of twist they put on it. The info on Bafang makes total sense to me... I actually asked one manufacturer about their motor rating and how much torque it put out, they then asked me why I wanted to know and proceeded to tell me that most people don't ask that question when purchasing an e-bike, they are just concerned about how fast it goes. So, thanks again for the information...

 

[Imchud]

I have Bafang Ultra and Ananda powered e-bikes. The Ananda is a cracker of a motor. Little is known about these motors as e-bike manufacturers usually rebrand them as their own.

I did buy mine from my local bike shop since if I had any problems I could count on my warranty through my LBS. They are a silent motor and are not lacking in the power/torque department. For this reason I find myself using PAS level 1 virtually all day the time. Mine was unlocked by the LBS at purchase to 42klms/hr but can ride faster than this and only limited by my cadence/chainring size.

So impressed with the power and delivery I bought my wife the step through version of my bike last Mother’s Day. Hers is also unlocked and loves riding it too, also only using PAS 1 of 9.

For what it’s worth Ravi uses this motor (perhaps with custom tuning) in the ZEN Photon. So he would be your best source of info through this forum. According to Ravi the Bafang engineers also developed the Ananda motor.

Pics of our bikes for attention

View attachment 165137View attachment 165138View attachment 165139

Juggernaut,
Love those bikes... and the info on the Ananda motors. I am going to be visiting my LBS next week to review a bit more with them as well. thanks for the reply.

 

[ElevenAD]

At 300lbs i would go with something powered by a 160nm Bafang like an M620 or a BBSHD, 120nm is ok but its not going to be spectacular with that much weight especially if your carrying additional cargo, the metal gears of the M620 are also a plus but they do make the motor louder than the other 3 mentioned.
My feeling is if you look around you can always find a better deal than DOST.
Take your time, dont rush your purchase and try to find an Ananda to test ride, always test ride if its possible!

 

[Imchud]

At 300lbs i would go with something powered by a 160nm Bafang like an M620 or a BBSHD, 120nm is ok but its not going to be spectacular with that much weight especially if your carrying additional cargo, the metal gears of the M620 are also a plus but they do make the motor louder than the other 3 mentioned.
My feeling is if you look around you can always find a better deal than DOST.
Take your time, dont rush your purchase and try to find an Ananda to test ride, always test ride if its possible!

ElevenAD,
Thank you for the information... I wrote down the motor information you suggested so I can bring it up to my LBS to see what is available locally or if I need to order something. I guess now (being from Cleveland) I am in no big hurry because the season is quickly coming to an end. However, being I am retired now, my wife and I have been talking about traveling down south for a week or two for a bike-friendly vacation.

 

[ElevenAD]

ElevenAD,
Thank you for the information... I wrote down the motor information you suggested so I can bring it up to my LBS to see what is available locally or if I need to order something. I guess now (being from Cleveland) I am in no big hurry because the season is quickly coming to an end. However, being I am retired now, my wife and I have been talking about traveling down south for a week or two for a bike-friendly vacation.

LBS probably wont be much help with Bafang M620 or BBSHD because they are both 1000watt motors but you may be able to test ride an Ananda if you can find one local. Test ride whatever your LBS has that catches your eye, you never know maybe you will find you dont need the additional power or speed of a big motor.

 

[Imchud]

Well... I finally pulled the trigger on a new Mid Drive "Dost Kope" (Chain Drive) - I tested a bunch of different styles and manufacturers trying to make sure I was picking, 'the one"... with the main objective of it being strong and reliable... I guess we all want that. I landed on the Dost because it seemed to check all my boxes, it was aesthetically pleasing, very well-built, and had the power I was looking for to climb hills. It also came with a lot of extras that were optional with some of the other bikes I've tested. I only just picked it up and had a whopping 1/2-hour ride before the rain started up. Although in that 1/2 hour, I had a smile on my face that I couldn't wipe off if I tried. The balls of that bike were awesome. It seemed in the short time that I got to ride it, that it had much more power than my Metro 750 hub drive.
The only thing that gave me pause was that Dost is a fairly new e-bike company (I think about 4 years) and I read some people had some communication problems with them. Getting them to address some of their bike issues or ignoring some e-mails. Me, having been in industrial sales for 44 years, customer service was key to my success, because without it, you're just like everyone else. I, however, made it a point to purchase it from a great LBS that has been in business for over 20 years and has excellent customer service. Wanted to say thanks for everyone's input... I'll update as I've had more time to ride it... before it snows.

 

[ElevenAD]

Well... I finally pulled the trigger on a new Mid Drive "Dost Kope" (Chain Drive) - I tested a bunch of different styles and manufacturers trying to make sure I was picking, 'the one"... with the main objective of it being strong and reliable... I guess we all want that. I landed on the Dost because it seemed to check all my boxes, it was aesthetically pleasing, very well-built, and had the power I was looking for to climb hills. It also came with a lot of extras that were optional with some of the other bikes I've tested. I only just picked it up and had a whopping 1/2-hour ride before the rain started up. Although in that 1/2 hour, I had a smile on my face that I couldn't wipe off if I tried. The balls of that bike were awesome. It seemed in the short time that I got to ride it, that it had much more power than my Metro 750 hub drive.
The only thing that gave me pause was that Dost is a fairly new e-bike company (I think about 4 years) and I read some people had some communication problems with them. Getting them to address some of their bike issues or ignoring some e-mails. Me, having been in industrial sales for 44 years, customer service was key to my success, because without it, you're just like everyone else. I, however, made it a point to purchase it from a great LBS that has been in business for over 20 years and has excellent customer service. Wanted to say thanks for everyone's input... I'll update as I've had more time to ride it... before it snows.

I hope you got that thing on sale,$3500 is too much for a BBS02 bike imo, i see not much has changed with Dost.
I think a Rize RX with a M620 motor and 2 batteries is only $3100? I have no idea why Dost prices are so high, if anyone does please chime in.

 

[Imchud]

Didn't know much about the Rize brand... until I just looked them up and watched some of the videos, Nice Bikes. Looks almost exactly like the Dost Kope. Dost had a special sale for a few weeks so I was able to pick it up for 2995.00... only for the single battery though and a 750w mid-drive, not the 1000w, mid-drive Rize is offering. However, it was important for me to purchase from a LBS... and not a direct method, which looks like how you need to aquire a Rize??.

AlsoI am not real savey on bike maintenance, I've changed brake pads and made some minor adjustments on basic things, but I would be intimidated to take on anything to do with the motor and gear setup... not saying anything about the electrical system. So if I have issues, i will just run it down to my local shop, who, BTW, has had his bike shop for about 25/years, so I trust his judgement, and it's a peace of mind for me. Do like the Rize bikes though.

 

[Paul S]

Hello all,
I have a quick question regarding Mid-Drive specs - I am in the process of purchasing a new e-bike. Currently, I own a Magnum Metro 750 (hub drive). - I love my Metro, but wanted something with more push (torque) to help with the hills. I'm a big guy (6'3 - 300/lbs) so, I wanted to upgrade to a Mid-drive that offered the more torque I was after. My two choices (for around $3000) were the Dost (kope chain) or the New Magnum Pilot. The Dost seemed to check all my boxes, and It has a "Bafang BBS-02" 750-watt Mid-Drive, with 120Nm of torque. Whereas the Magnum Pilot had an "Ananda" (which I never heard of) 500-watt Mid-drive with, 130Nm of torque. they both seem like great choices, however, I am confused... how can a 500-watt have almost the same, and in this case, more torque than a 750-watt? A 2nd question... which do you think would be the best choice? I also thought about a Biktrex model... Your thoughts?...Thanks.

I would really research Dost as a company. I believe they are out of business.

 

[ronaldrodgers]

Didn't know much about the Rize brand... until I just looked them up and watched some of the videos, Nice Bikes. Looks almost exactly like the Dost Kope. Dost had a special sale for a few weeks so I was able to pick it up for 2995.00... only for the single battery though and a 750w mid-drive, not the 1000w, mid-drive Rize is offering. However, it was important for me to purchase from a LBS... and not a direct method, which looks like how you need to aquire a Rize??.

AlsoI am not real savey on bike maintenance, I've changed brake pads and made some minor adjustments on basic things, but I would be intimidated to take on anything to do with the motor and gear setup... not saying anything about the electrical system. So if I have issues, i will just run it down to my local shop, who, BTW, has had his bike shop for about 25/years, so I trust his judgement, and it's a peace of mind for me. Do like the Rize bikes though.

I have a Rize City MD. It has a BBS02 and I am happy with it. I can’t wait for the ice to melt from the roads and trails.
I did set my customer service expectations low and I do my own maintenance thanks to YouTube. Rize has several videos on their site and YouTube. I feel that most maintenance issues are not difficult. Yes, the issues are time consuming, but the maintenance issues are a reason to purchase new tools. I can usually get the job done before the shop would be able to finish it. There is up to a two week waiting period for shops to complete work in Indianapolis. I did purchase a mobile bike stand from REI and a ceiling bike lift to assist me to place the bike on the stand.