I bought a Grizl:ON CF 9, AMA

[Ben J]

You may remember me from such bikes as the Turbo Tero X 6.0 or the Aventure.2. I was very interested in the Creo 2 but didn't jump on that fast enough. I ended up getting the Grizl:ON CF 9 because it's a very similar bike. I was looking for something faster on roads/light gravel, lighter, with more variety in hand/riding positions. I also knew from the power settings and range I was getting from the Tero X 6 that I would be fine with less torque, less power, and a smaller battery.

First Impressions​

• Feels super light. Obviously 35lb is not light by bike standards, but for an ebike it feels like nothing.
• It picks up speed quickly and maintains speed very well. It's noticeable how much faster it is at low/no assist and moderate rider power.
• I immediately felt confident riding it no-handed. By comparison, the Tero X 6 steering geometry and lack of a top tube makes it feel pretty sketchy.
• Brakes are very good. Returning to my house usually involves a steep descent, and I was worried that I was spoiled by MTB brakes and big rotors, but the Grizl has plenty of stopping power, even from the hoods.

Geometry​

I'm 6'4" (193cm) with a 93cm inseam, which puts me smack in the middle of their XL sizing guide. But if you look at the real geometry numbers, you could not fit on this bike at the short end of the XL inseam range with the stock stem. You'd need a plain stem you could slam. I would say I'm really at the low end of the XL frame and I might have been better with an L frame. You'd get more seatpost extension (and thus more flex) and I think the reach would be better for me.

Notes:

• With my measurements (above) I was about 2cm from max seatpost insertion.
• The min/max seat insertion depth on the geometry data is not a property of the bike frame, it's the seatpost. It says 207mm max insertion, but the first obstruction in the seat tube is the top bottle cage boss. You can actually fit a 400mm dropper post slammed (at least in the XL frame) despite what it says.
• On the other hand, the min/max seat height geometry numbers are not based on the stock stem. You can easily do the math and see that they don't add up.
• If you are looking for comfort with a carbon stem (like the stock one) you don't want to be at the low/middle of the inseam range.
• I think the reach is slightly too long for me (10-15mm) in the stock setup, but I'm old, inflexible, and not used to riding drop bars.

Bosch Performance Line Sprint​

I'm very used to the Brose 2.2 motor on the Tero X 6 and the Specialized TCD, so naturally this is a bit of a comparison:

• The motor is fairly noisy. The volume increases with the assist setting, and the pitch (which is fairly high) increases directly with rider cadence.
• In tour/blue and above there is noticeable vibration through the pedals. This is especially pronounced in tour/blue for some reason. It's also a little stronger at lower cadence.
• The four assist levels are very distinct. ECO/green is pretty low so I don't think I'll miss micro tune. The modes are configurable with the app but I haven't read up on how it works and it's not super clear in the app.
• Even with the faster gearing and larger rear wheel, the assist is more than enough to make the trip up the hill by my house easy. I was worried about this because the Tero X 6 has about 40% mechanical torque and almost twice the motor torque.
• The real place you notice the lower torque is at lower cadence. I don't know the exact number, but if you drop below about 70 RPM there's a big falloff in assist. That can make the bike feel a little "steppy" because a burst of rider power can get you to a plateu where you get much more motor support.
• The top tube control is a big weakness of this system. It's just a power button and an assist button (with long press to reduce assist) plus a bar graph power display. Assist level is indicated by color. Adjusting power while riding is impractical. If you use multiple power levels during a ride, I think the mini remote (see below) is required. Compared to something like a Turbo Levo, it is absolutely primitive.
• The biggest weakness of the system is the proprietary connectivity. You can't just connect the bike to another app as a power meter, so if the bike doesn't support one of your peripherals (e.g. Garmin Varia radar) you will never get 100% of your stuff working in a single app. Luckily, after a firmware update it recognizes my HR monitor.
• Battery life seems to be right where I expected, about 35-40mi with my normal use. Today I got it down to 17% and I didn't notice any dropoff in assist even though it said I only had 2-3 miles of range remaining. There is a range extender available.
• The part of the Bosch Flow app you use while riding is fine. It's comparable to other apps in the same category. The part of the app you use while not riding is terrible. Rarely/never used options are available at the top level. Common, useful things are buried 3-4 layers deep. Inconsistent UI language makes it hard to tell what is even a button. Ads and notifications are mixed in with other controls, so menus can be slightly different each time you use the app.

Overall, every individual element made a poor first impression, but it's growing on me. I'm still annoyed by the lack of radar connectivity. The mini remote improves the riding experience a lot. I still wish it was quieter, and every time I bump into tour/blue mode I'm surprised by how much vibration I feel in my feet.

Canyon​

• Shipping was fast, and the bike was very well packaged.
• The instructions are good (I only saw maybe two minor errors). There isn't that much assembly to do. The stuff done by Canyon at the factory was done well (for example, the brake calipers were in the right spot). There are thoughtful notes attached to the bike in areas where you might overlook something.
• Major accessories don't seem to be available in the US, like the matched frame bag (that's in almost all of the pictures), and the fenders.
• They really include all the tools you need, including a torque wrench and a shock pump.
• I could have done with fewer stickers on the frame, but I suppose they are legally required.

Miscellaneous Notes​

• The gearing is a good match to the bike. The low end will still get me up the hills I ride and the high end is 34MPH at 90RPM.
• The bladed spokes seem very "extra" to me. I am also getting some intermittent noise which I think is from the spokes but I haven't nailed it down.
• The Schwalbe G-One Bite (45mm) are great so far. Quiet on the road, and grippy in sketchier dirt/gravel situations than I expected.
• The rear hub is super quiet. But you can still have a clicky noise if you want, by backpedaling the Bosch motor.
• When I really put the power down it's very easy to lift the front wheel.
• I'm withholding judgement on the RockShox Ruby suspension fork. I think the setup guidelines at the higher end of total rider weight are too stiff, but I don't have it dialed in yet.

Modifications​

Of course I started changing things almost immediately:

• The Bosch Mini Remote (about $50) is a necessity if your riding style includes adjusting power up and down. This also gets you access to walk mode and a dedicated button that cycles through screens in the Bosch Flow app (equivalent to swiping).
• I swapped the seatpost for a RockShox Reverb AXS XPLR dropper. I grew up riding bikes that were too short for me, and I just can't break the habit of expecting to be able to put a foot down. The dropper will probably save me from a broken leg at some point. Since it's AXS it pairs with the existing shifters with no problem. This thing probably deserves its own review.
• LEZYNE Flow side-load bottle cages (come in a left/right pair) work great.
• The RockShox mini front fender is enough to protect the rider but not the downtube.
• I added a "Ass Savers Win Wing 2" rear fender and it's fantastic. Very minimal, easy to remove, kept me 100% clean in the wet.
• I should get new pedals because the included ones are pretty borderline. Even the manual tells you to replace them. And/or I should start riding clipless.
• The included saddle is okay, but I am a fan of sqlab and might replace it.
• The TUSITA Varia seat post mount that came up in another thread (and which does not fit MTB seatposts) works great on this bike. I've seen the stock Varia elastic mount bounce around even on a FS MTB so I like the rigid mount.

The forum isn't letting me attach an image right now, but I'll add one when it's working again.

 

[BlackHand]

Congrats and super helpful post!

Literally had this bike in the cart off and on for about 6 weeks now, just waiting for it to go on sale again. The CF7 is a better value at its sale price, but the AXS just seems like a great fit for this bike.

-Your notes on size help a lot. I'm much smaller than you and am solidly in the SM range and at the bottom of the M range in the Canyon calculator. I had decided on SM but was hesitant because I usually size up to M and feel cramped on smaller bikes. Now I know SM is the right size for me.

-the noise/power/vibration notes sound consistent with my experience on my older Bosch powered bike (for better or for worse). You may find the vibration will settle down after the chain and drive unit break in a little more. Mashing the pedals at 60-65rpm in Tour mode is where it will always stands out though.

-gearing sounds good. So you can max out assist and still have another gear (or 2) left for downhills if you desire.

-the mini remote is bluetooth I think? Does it need to connect through the Flow app or does it pair directly with the bike?

-does the bike come with the mini front fender? Seems like it is on the bike in some reviews and not in others...

-range sounds about right unfortunately. A mix of Eco and Tour? I think the PowerMore range extender is still MIA in the US...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you Ben for your extensive and super helpful review!

I'm confused with the Canyon sizing... Similarly to BlackHand, I usually choose the frame size M. Now, it looks I need a frame size S?

 

[Ben J]

I'm confused with the Canyon sizing

Once you're aware of it you'll notice almost everyone who talks about Canyon bike sizing (across their entire lineup) mentions going down a size from what they expected. And the fact that their sizing goes down to "extra small" is also a clue.

The CF7 is a better value at its sale price

I agree. And I wouldn't mind a non-black frame color. The only real practical difference is the CF7's Deore XT cassette is slightly narrower range at 11-42 (vs CF9 10-44) with the same 44T chainring. The rest of the money is in the carbon wheels. I wish I knew how much of the "low rolling resistance" feel was due to those rims. They are impressively light, though.

In my case I also knew I wanted AXS for the dropper, although that actually compounds the expense since the 75mm drop AXS XPLR dropper is one of the most expensive droppers on the market.

the mini remote is bluetooth I think? Does it need to connect through the Flow app or does it pair directly with the bike?

The remote ends up paired to the bike as far as I can tell, but the Flow app is required to facilitate the pairing. I had to look up how to pair online: You can only pair immediately after installing the battery. In the small window while the LED is green, hold "minus" until it turns blue. Mine didn't come with a battery (not sure if I got an open box based on other evidence) so just buy some CR1620s in advance.

does the bike come with the mini front fender?

No, but it is an official RockShox Ruby accessory. It's available on Amazon. It's only $20

range sounds about right unfortunately. A mix of Eco and Tour? I think the PowerMore range extender is still MIA in the US...

Yes, a mix of Eco and Tour in the 15-20mph range. I didn't know that about the PowerMore. Bosch does advertise it right on the bike setup page!

I also did several miles with assist off (on a mixed use path) and it feels great.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

You may remember me from such bikes as the Turbo Tero X 6.0 or the Aventure.2. I was very interested in the Creo 2 but didn't jump on that fast enough. I ended up getting the Grizl:ON CF 9 because it's a very similar bike. I was looking for something faster on roads/light gravel, lighter, with more variety in hand/riding positions. I also knew from the power settings and range I was getting from the Tero X 6 that I would be fine with less torque, less power, and a smaller battery.

First Impressions​

• Feels super light. Obviously 35lb is not light by bike standards, but for an ebike it feels like nothing.
• It picks up speed quickly and maintains speed very well. It's noticeable how much faster it is at low/no assist and moderate rider power.
• I immediately felt confident riding it no-handed. By comparison, the Tero X 6 steering geometry and lack of a top tube makes it feel pretty sketchy.
• Brakes are very good. Returning to my house usually involves a steep descent, and I was worried that I was spoiled by MTB brakes and big rotors, but the Grizl has plenty of stopping power, even from the hoods.

Geometry​

I'm 6'4" (193cm) with a 93cm inseam, which puts me smack in the middle of their XL sizing guide. But if you look at the real geometry numbers, you could not fit on this bike at the short end of the XL inseam range with the stock stem. You'd need a plain stem you could slam. I would say I'm really at the low end of the XL frame and I might have been better with an L frame. You'd get more seatpost extension (and thus more flex) and I think the reach would be better for me.

Notes:

• With my measurements (above) I was about 2cm from max seatpost insertion.
• The min/max seat insertion depth on the geometry data is not a property of the bike frame, it's the seatpost. It says 207mm max insertion, but the first obstruction in the seat tube is the top bottle cage boss. You can actually fit a 400mm dropper post slammed (at least in the XL frame) despite what it says.
• On the other hand, the min/max seat height geometry numbers are not based on the stock stem. You can easily do the math and see that they don't add up.
• If you are looking for comfort with a carbon stem (like the stock one) you don't want to be at the low/middle of the inseam range.
• I think the reach is slightly too long for me (10-15mm) in the stock setup, but I'm old, inflexible, and not used to riding drop bars.

Bosch Performance Line Sprint​

I'm very used to the Brose 2.2 motor on the Tero X 6 and the Specialized TCD, so naturally this is a bit of a comparison:

• The motor is fairly noisy. The volume increases with the assist setting, and the pitch (which is fairly high) increases directly with rider cadence.
• In tour/blue and above there is noticeable vibration through the pedals. This is especially pronounced in tour/blue for some reason. It's also a little stronger at lower cadence.
• The four assist levels are very distinct. ECO/green is pretty low so I don't think I'll miss micro tune. The modes are configurable with the app but I haven't read up on how it works and it's not super clear in the app.
• Even with the faster gearing and larger rear wheel, the assist is more than enough to make the trip up the hill by my house easy. I was worried about this because the Tero X 6 has about 40% mechanical torque and almost twice the motor torque.
• The real place you notice the lower torque is at lower cadence. I don't know the exact number, but if you drop below about 70 RPM there's a big falloff in assist. That can make the bike feel a little "steppy" because a burst of rider power can get you to a plateu where you get much more motor support.
• The top tube control is a big weakness of this system. It's just a power button and an assist button (with long press to reduce assist) plus a bar graph power display. Assist level is indicated by color. Adjusting power while riding is impractical. If you use multiple power levels during a ride, I think the mini remote (see below) is required. Compared to something like a Turbo Levo, it is absolutely primitive.
• The biggest weakness of the system is the proprietary connectivity. You can't just connect the bike to another app as a power meter, so if the bike doesn't support one of your peripherals (e.g. Garmin Varia radar) you will never get 100% of your stuff working in a single app. Luckily, after a firmware update it recognizes my HR monitor.
• Battery life seems to be right where I expected, about 35-40mi with my normal use. Today I got it down to 17% and I didn't notice any dropoff in assist even though it said I only had 2-3 miles of range remaining. There is a range extender available.
• The part of the Bosch Flow app you use while riding is fine. It's comparable to other apps in the same category. The part of the app you use while not riding is terrible. Rarely/never used options are available at the top level. Common, useful things are buried 3-4 layers deep. Inconsistent UI language makes it hard to tell what is even a button. Ads and notifications are mixed in with other controls, so menus can be slightly different each time you use the app.

Overall, every individual element made a poor first impression, but it's growing on me. I'm still annoyed by the lack of radar connectivity. The mini remote improves the riding experience a lot. I still wish it was quieter, and every time I bump into tour/blue mode I'm surprised by how much vibration I feel in my feet.

Canyon​

• Shipping was fast, and the bike was very well packaged.
• The instructions are good (I only saw maybe two minor errors). There isn't that much assembly to do. The stuff done by Canyon at the factory was done well (for example, the brake calipers were in the right spot). There are thoughtful notes attached to the bike in areas where you might overlook something.
• Major accessories don't seem to be available in the US, like the matched frame bag (that's in almost all of the pictures), and the fenders.
• They really include all the tools you need, including a torque wrench and a shock pump.
• I could have done with fewer stickers on the frame, but I suppose they are legally required.

Miscellaneous Notes​

• The gearing is a good match to the bike. The low end will still get me up the hills I ride and the high end is 34MPH at 90RPM.
• The bladed spokes seem very "extra" to me. I am also getting some intermittent noise which I think is from the spokes but I haven't nailed it down.
• The Schwalbe G-One Bite (45mm) are great so far. Quiet on the road, and grippy in sketchier dirt/gravel situations than I expected.
• The rear hub is super quiet. But you can still have a clicky noise if you want, by backpedaling the Bosch motor.
• When I really put the power down it's very easy to lift the front wheel.
• I'm withholding judgement on the RockShox Ruby suspension fork. I think the setup guidelines at the higher end of total rider weight are too stiff, but I don't have it dialed in yet.

Modifications​

Of course I started changing things almost immediately:

• The Bosch Mini Remote (about $50) is a necessity if your riding style includes adjusting power up and down. This also gets you access to walk mode and a dedicated button that cycles through screens in the Bosch Flow app (equivalent to swiping).
• I swapped the seatpost for a RockShox Reverb AXS XPLR dropper. I grew up riding bikes that were too short for me, and I just can't break the habit of expecting to be able to put a foot down. The dropper will probably save me from a broken leg at some point. Since it's AXS it pairs with the existing shifters with no problem. This thing probably deserves its own review.
• LEZYNE Flow side-load bottle cages (come in a left/right pair) work great.
• The RockShox mini front fender is enough to protect the rider but not the downtube.
• I added a "Ass Savers Win Wing 2" rear fender and it's fantastic. Very minimal, easy to remove, kept me 100% clean in the wet.
• I should get new pedals because the included ones are pretty borderline. Even the manual tells you to replace them. And/or I should start riding clipless.
• The included saddle is okay, but I am a fan of sqlab and might replace it.
• The TUSITA Varia seat post mount that came up in another thread (and which does not fit MTB seatposts) works great on this bike. I've seen the stock Varia elastic mount bounce around even on a FS MTB so I like the rigid mount.

The forum isn't letting me attach an image right now, but I'll add one when it's working again.

Very impressive bike, thorough write-up. Looked at the CF8 at our local Canyon showroom. Sorely tempted, but my neck's become too stiff for drop bars, and converting to flat bars would have blown the budget.

 

[Grueso]

Very interesting! This bike (or one of the other e-Grizls) would be on my short list, if I weren't still trying to make a BikeOn clip-on motor work with my Canyon Roadlite 6...
Do you have any 5% or steeper grades in your area? I'd be interested in learning how this bike performs on longer grades, i.e. which speed and cadence are sustainable. You mentioned that cadences below 70 rpm don't seem to work well.
It would also be interesting to know what the range (or energy use in Wh/mile) is at a certain average speed, say 20 mph (or any other speed; since air drag is such a strong function of speed, knowing the speed is necessary).

 

[Ben J]

Do you have any 5% or steeper grades in your area? I'd be interested in learning how this bike performs on longer grades, i.e. which speed and cadence are sustainable. You mentioned that cadences below 70 rpm don't seem to work well.
It would also be interesting to know what the range (or energy use in Wh/mile) is at a certain average speed, say 20 mph (or any other speed; since air drag is such a strong function of speed, knowing the speed is necessary).

Bosch has a fairly sophisticated range calculator that is probably more useful than my anecdotal evidence. Above I said 35-40 miles where I was riding a mix of ECO and TOUR and the tool says 34 for TOUR and 55 for ECO so it agrees as far as that. Also, playing with the cadence slider, it doesn't reflect a dropoff in range until you go below about 45 RPM. Then it's a pretty sharp drop to 10% penalty at 30 RPM. Peak range is actually in the 45-75 range. Going up to 90 is about a 5% penalty.

I live on a >5% grade so I ride on them all the time. The limiting factor probably isn't the bike, though. Some health issues prevented me from riding much at the beginning of the summer so I'm only now getting to a point where I can ride 60+ miles in a weekend again.

 

[Grueso]

Thanks for the link to the Bosch range estimator!

 

[Te. S]

thanks for the in-depth review it looks to be awesome bike.

 

[AndyK2479]

A bike I'm looking at as my first e-bike, I've hovered over the 'Add to Cart' on more than one occasion.

I read in a review that the suspension forks can't be locked out? I'm looking mainly for a road/light gravel set up(the roads in the UK could pass as gravel at times )

Sizing in the Grizl:On is weird, comes up same stack and reach in the recommended by Canyon XS size as my Giant Contend AR in Medium.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Bosch has a fairly sophisticated range calculator that is probably more useful than my anecdotal evidence. Above I said 35-40 miles where I was riding a mix of ECO and TOUR and the tool says 34 for TOUR and 55 for ECO so it agrees as far as that. Also, playing with the cadence slider, it doesn't reflect a dropoff in range until you go below about 45 RPM. Then it's a pretty sharp drop to 10% penalty at 30 RPM. Peak range is actually in the 45-75 range. Going up to 90 is about a 5% penalty.

I live on a >5% grade so I ride on them all the time. The limiting factor probably isn't the bike, though. Some health issues prevented me from riding much at the beginning of the summer so I'm only now getting to a point where I can ride 60+ miles in a weekend again.

Playing with the calculator's an interesting exercise. It confirms — for the Bosch Smart System, at least — that the peak in the efficiency-vs-cadence curve has a pretty broad peak. Will see if Specialized has something similar.

Specialized says the cadence sweet spot for my new Vado SL is 80-90 RPM. Happily, that's mine, too. The smallish battery motivates me to pedal at 80-90 RPM as much as possible, but this calculator indicates a good bit more leeway than that with Bosch.

 

[Ben J]

I read in a review that the suspension forks can't be locked out? I'm looking mainly for a road/light gravel set up(the roads in the UK could pass as gravel at times )

It does have a lockout.

As you mention, the sizing names Canyon uses don't seem to match up with other bikes. I'm surprised about medium all the way to XS, but I don't know how Giant sizing lines up.

 

[AndyK2479]

It does have a lockout.

As you mention, the sizing names Canyon uses don't seem to match up with other bikes. I'm surprised about medium all the way to XS, but I don't know how Giant sizing lines up.

Thanks, Ben,
The 'forks don't lockout' was actually in a online magazine review so that's good to know that they can be turned off if required.

I always thought Canyon sizing was different to the others, I'm right on the boundary of XS/S so sticking to the adage of it's easier to make it bigger than it is to make it smaller.

Great review of the bike though, really thorough and informative.

Andy

 

[Te. S]

Playing with the calculator's an interesting exercise. It confirms — for the Bosch Smart System, at least — that the peak in the efficiency-vs-cadence curve has a pretty broad peak. Will see if Specialized has something similar.

Specialized says the cadence sweet spot for my new Vado SL is 80-90 RPM. Happily, that's mine, too. The smallish battery motivates me to pedal at 80-90 RPM as much as possible, but this calculator indicates a good bit more leeway than that with Bosch.

I have been riding for while now SL the cadence @ 80 to 90 make me go in a higher gear witch means faster pedaling I prefer @ 70 to 80 Cadence it my sweet spot lower gear littel more work.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I have been riding for while now SL the cadence @ 80 to 90 make me go in a higher gear witch means faster pedaling I prefer @ 70 to 80 Cadence it my sweet spot lower gear littel more work.

Do you notice any loss of motor power at 70-80 RPM relative to 80-90 RPM?

Can't say that I've noticed a difference between, say, 85 and 75 RPM, but I've only had my SL for 11 days. Will test 80 vs 70 RPM, which is about as low as my knees will tolerate comfortably.

I'm guessing that the Bosch and SL motors both have broad peaks in their efficiency- and mechanical power-vs-cadence curves.

 

[Te. S]

Do you notice any loss of motor power at 70-80 RPM relative to 80-90 RPM?

Can't say that I've noticed a difference between, say, 85 and 75 RPM, but I've only had my SL for 11 days. Will test 80 vs 70 RPM, which is about as low as my knees will tolerate comfortably.

I'm guessing that the Bosch and SL motors both have broad peaks in their efficiency- and mechanical power-vs-cadence curves.

on my last 2 ride in the same day
@ 73 rpm average power 123 W average speed 13.2 battery usage 15% distance 10.9 miles then
@ 69 rpm Average power 92 W average speed 11.9 battery usage 10% distance 8.0 miles
so from what i figure as long as your above 70 rpm you should be good to go blow 70 rpm is where you loss W and speed hope this helps but remember every one rids differently

 

[Stefan Mikes]

on my last 2 ride in the same day
@ 73 rpm average power 123 W average speed 13.2 battery usage 15% distance 10.9 miles then
@ 69 rpm Average power 92 W average speed 11.9 battery usage 10% distance 8.0 miles
so from what i figure as long as your above 70 rpm you should be good to go blow 70 rpm is where you loss W and speed hope this helps but remember every one rids differently

I think your data might be affected by the air drag. The cadence difference here seems to be negligible.