52 v 14S battery?

[Brock]

Has anyone tried running a Rad City (or other Rad) on a 52v battery? Would the motor and controller be fine with that extra voltage? I really notice on a fresh charge in PAS 3, I see 400 watts after 10 minutes I see 300 w and loose a bar. I am assuming this is just the voltage dropping to the flat part of the discharge curve on the li Ion and the controller is supplying the same amperage but the voltage is sagging a bit.

So could you simply replace the existing 13s pack with a 14s pack (and charger)?

If so does someone make one in the same form factor to make a simple swap?

 

[AHicks]

It sounds to me like you might like to know more about Bolton's kits. I have an '18 City, and although I didn't go with one of his "kits" I'm running very similar components (KT systems controller w/LCD3 display). The difference my set up and his is that his kits are plug and play when it comes to the RAD factory connectors, where mine are completely different.

Anyway, the RAD controller is locked down with very little customizing possible to set it up for 52v. If you're going to 52v one way or another, you could try it I suppose, with nothing lost if it didn't work. You would just go with one of Bolton's kit's at that point.

He has a bunch of stuff on You Tube. Just search on "RAD Bolton". Most of his stuff is done regarding the Rover, but works fine on a City as well (they're identical from a wiring standpoint). -Al

 

[Brock]

Wow lots of video's, I think I watched a few of them when I was initially looking. I didn't realize how "fixed" the rad controller was. I suppose it makes sense and it works as is. I also have never felt the motor even be warm running for a while, I believe the larger hub motors are better with heat dissipation, primarily due to size and weight, which is what got me to thinking of running a higher voltage battery.

It is funny though it would be less expensive to swap out the controller and screen rather than purchase a 52v battery and wire it in.

I think for now I will leave things as is

Thanks!

 

[AHicks]

It's an option that's always available, and will pretty much be necessary if you ever decide to go with a bigger drive motor, or battery. Just knowing something like this is available can be filed away in the mental notes for use later.

 

[Brock]

Exactly! Knowing is half the battle.

Thanks again!

 

[AHicks]

In the case of a 52v batt. installed on a Rad with stock controller, it would be the little things that might bite. For instance a low voltage control (LVC) set to shut off way below a safe point for a 52v. There's probably other things, but knowing what I know, a controller change would be part of any plan I had to go to 52v.

Actually, it took less than that for me to change controllers.

 

[AHicks]

They both supply low voltage protection independently (BMS and Controller), and the fact the user has so little control over what's going on with the controller is why I changed mine after riding it just 6 weeks!

That said, it's easy to see why Rad has the controller settings locked down. If it were as adjustable as many aftermarket controllers for instance, can you imagine how much of their time they would have to spend providing phone support to clowns with absolutely no idea of what they are doing, just going in and changing 6 or 8 things at a time to see what happens, because some internet "expert" suggested it would work better that way? Short story is that it would be a nightmare for them.

That's not to say that legitimate requests for changes couldn't be easily supplied by tech support, with a firmware update, even if it were to cost a few bucks every time you requested one.

 

[Brock]

I just read that controller thread, lot of great info in there. It makes me think even more that swapping out the controller is the way to go. I am ok with the power of the Rad City, I just wish for instance I could set it to 300 watts or 400 watts and don't limit based on speed via the controller. I understand the overall speed limitation of the motor given the voltage, but it is like hitting a big hill as you hit the 40 kph limit. I believe all I want is to bump that 40 to 80 so it doesn't limit on speed, I think...

Although having read that my concern is what all those other setting would be on the City with the hub motor vs the Rover, but that might be fun as well figuring out the settings.

After looking at that other controller I can totally see why Rad locked down their controller, probably to save $5 in programing and just set it and forget it and as you mentioned no one could push the controller or motor or battery, very KISS, probably in a safe way for 95% of the folks out there, don't let them get in over their heads.

 

[AHicks]

Yes, KISS, my thought exactly. Though I may not be crazy about their OEM program, it's hard to fault them for it.

For those that want to study up on the potential advantages of "be your own controller programmer" there are controllers that will allow that. Boltons, with it's matching connectors allowing plug and play installation, is a great example. Some, as far as I'm concerned, go WAY beyond that, and things get complicated quickly. An electrical engineers playground! Point being, more may not be better if you don't plan on REALLY getting into it....

One thought for you Mr. Brock, if you haven't already noticed it, is that I found the stock controller had a lot of what I refer to as "soft start" built into it. When you give it full throttle for instance, you don't get full power immediately. There's a delay built into it so that full available power won't startle anyone. This "soft start" feature causes a sluggishness that can be perceived as a motor having low power, when it actually does not. Bolton's kit eliminates the soft start, and this may be a lot of the extra power available claimed by those installing the kit. -Al

 

[Brock]

See your making me want it even more, the time I notice the soft start is at our driveway. It is on a nice incline and I stop to grab the mail and then I only have one hand free to twist the throttle, but it just won't make it up the small incline without pedaling, which is a pain. As soon as Bolton has an upgraded version for 2019 with the tail light and available I will get one

Speaking of that, is the front light and rear light the same voltage? are they running 12v or 5v or 48v? Could they simply be paralleled, I am not as concerned about the brake light, just being powered from the pack and simple on and off.

 

[AHicks]

You're getting back to the OEM controller and what it's capable of. Who knows if there is enough available to run the lights in parallel? There are no specs available to my knowledge. The KT based controller (the one Bolton uses) has a very small amount of power available using the LCD display switch, small enough where it wouldn't be hard to overwhelm at all. The resulting burnt circuit board would likely cost you the price of a new controller to fix.

The better plan is to use that small amount of power form the controller to close a relay, with MUCH more amperage available at 48v. Use that to run your lights in parallel. Or simpler yet, tap into the 48v battery some place easy (not a difficult job), and use a handlebar mounted aftermarket on/off switch to power your lights.

 

[Brock]

I like the relay idea. Does anyone know what voltage the 2019 are running the headlight and tail light at?

 

[WilliamT]

I have an older Radwagon that runs a 17ah luna 52v battery using the existing OEM controller. The original battery was an 11.6ah 48v. The controller on my bike can handle up to 60 volts and the 52v only goes up to 58.8v peak. I just had to change the connectors to make it work. Acceleration may be slightly stronger but I really didn't notice any difference.

 

[tomjasz]

I have around a dozen personal batteries. 8 are 48V and 52V. I find that for the first few volts of use there is a small increase in speed and power, but soon drops off. A controller may have 60V caps but 58.8V peak might, in some cases, be pushing the limits. Best to poke around with google and see what other users have done and see what their results were.

52V sales are probably twice 48V packs. But IMO and IME it's more marketing than solid improvement. I have a 52V 20Ah that boosted my BBSHD to 35MPH from a previous top of 32MPH, but once I road a couple of miles there was no improvement over my 48V 20Ah.