Pedego PAS Design

[rpr]

I see some threads that say people have tried to climb hills unsuccessfully in PAS1 with cadence sensor Pedego’s (like the Element) but they’ve been able to do it in PAS4+. This really doesn’t make sense based on how I’ve been told Pedego’s PAS works, unless your leveraging the momentum of the extra speed you can get in higher PAS settings to crest the hill.

Pedego tech support themselves have told me that any pedaling at all picked up by their cadence sensor bikes puts the motor in full assist mode, 100% all in, the only difference in the various PAS settings is the speed at which the pedal assist cuts off. So PAS1 may have an upper limit and cutoff at 10mph, PAS2 may have an upper limit and cutoff at 12mph, etc, but there is no additional torque provided in each respective PAS setting. It’s simply like flipping a switch, the motor is either on (100% torque) or its off.

This is exactly what riding an Element feels like to me. In PAS1 through PAS5, as soon as you start pedaling and the PAS kicks in it takes off like a bat out of h*** if you’re in a lower gear.

Does anyone have any info to the contrary? If so, that would mean I rode a defective Element and Pedego tech support gave me bad info. I’m actually researching options to gradually ramp the power delivery on the Element as it’s otherwise a great option despite the on-off crude power delivery.

 

[GizmoEV]

I have an Element which I understand is the most recent version, purchased the end of August 2022. The battery is in the down tube and installs from underneath. When in PAS1 and climbing a hill, the bike has to be going much slower than the ~8mph for the controller to apply full power. Bumping up the PAS level or giving it a bit of throttle ramps up the power more at the higher speed without the large slow down first. I haven't tried it yet, but I think I could ride up a hill in PAS1, but it might be at less than 1mph to do it only with the motor. I'd try it now, but I have to wait for my broken hand to heal.

Throttle response on the Element is very smooth. I wish my Avenue's throttle response was as good.

 

[rpr]

Tough to make sense of this. The Avenue has the same motor and (as far as I can tell) the same PAS & throttle system as the Element. Both have a 500W, 45NM motor, and a cadence sensing PAS.

Unless the Element has been updated and the website doesn’t reflect the updates yet?

 

[GizmoEV]

When I picked up my Avenue, I told the dealer that my Wife's Avenue did not have as good of a throttle response and the PAS would not back off until well over the speed setting for that mode. When applying the throttle, rather than slowly ramping up, the minimum speed was quite fast, unlike my Element. Also, when riding in, say, PAS5, and then reducing it, all while pedaling, the assist did not reduce until pedaling stopped briefly. The Element has none of these issues. My Avenue behaves the same as My Wife's Avenue, so this appears to be an Avenue issue.

While the motor in both bikes may have the same specs, they do look different. The difference in behavior is most likely only a controller programming. As for climbing hills, I suspect that the programming is set to ramp up power based on speed below the set point and that the max speed drop is a fixed number, possibly something like 10km/h or about 6mph. This could explain why PAS1 isn't very good for hill climbing.

 

[GizmoEV]

Tough to make sense of this. The Avenue has the same motor and (as far as I can tell) the same PAS & throttle system as the Element. Both have a 500W, 45NM motor, and a cadence sensing PAS.

Unless the Element has been updated and the website doesn’t reflect the updates yet?

I stopped by the Sequim Pedego Dealer on Tuesday. I asked about the issues we are having with the Avenue PAS and was told that Pedego is working on controller firmware updates to address the issues. There are at least four that I'm aware of: over-speeding the PAS setting, not reducing the PAS speed when reducing the PAS setting while pedaling, not always kicking in PAS after coasting, and the abrupt throttle response. If I understood it correctly, one of the issues has been corrected and they are still working on the others. I don't remember which of the issues has been fixed, however.

The displays are the same model number but look slightly different. This one is on the Element. Note the "M" for the power/mode button.

This one is from the Avenue. Note the "Power" button for the mode/power button. Also note the power display already shows one bar of power whereas the one on the Element shows no power bars.

The motors are definitely different between the two models. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the wheel size difference and how much has to do with being different internally.

 

[PV_Randy]

I stopped by the Sequim Pedego Dealer on Tuesday. I asked about the issues we are having with the Avenue PAS and was told that Pedego is working on controller firmware updates to address the issues. There are at least four that I'm aware of: over-speeding the PAS setting, not reducing the PAS speed when reducing the PAS setting while pedaling, not always kicking in PAS after coasting, and the abrupt throttle response. If I understood it correctly, one of the issues has been corrected and they are still working on the others. I don't remember which of the issues has been fixed, however.

The displays are the same model number but look slightly different. This one is on the Element. Note the "M" for the power/mode button.View attachment 151182

This one is from the Avenue. Note the "Power" button for the mode/power button. Also note the power display already shows one bar of power whereas the one on the Element shows no power bars.
View attachment 151181

The motors are definitely different between the two models. I'm not sure how much this has to do with the wheel size difference and how much has to do with being different internally.

Hello Gizmo. I'm struggling with two moderately new Pedegos and going up a hills that are not too steep but long. My speed decreases about 5 mph before the PAS3 (or PAS4, etc) "wakes up" and jumps in to get me back to speed. I can also get it to start sooner if I simply stop pedaling for even a fraction of a second and then restart. Then it wakes up and kicks in pronto. I think it's a software thing and am going in today to get the software updated on both bikes. I think there are two software modules on both bikes. I cannot find anything other than your post that refernces firmware updates including what the latest versions are and to learn what was fixed in each. Seems to be a guarded secret. Any more insight on software releases? Steep hills are not a problem. It works perfect for them. It's a calm, extended slope that seems to be unable to perceive my slowing down and difficulty pedaling.

 

[GizmoEV]

Hello Gizmo. I'm struggling with two moderately new Pedegos and going up a hills that are not too steep but long. My speed decreases about 5 mph before the PAS3 (or PAS4, etc) "wakes up" and jumps in to get me back to speed. I can also get it to start sooner if I simply stop pedaling for even a fraction of a second and then restart. Then it wakes up and kicks in pronto. I think it's a software thing and am going in today to get the software updated on both bikes. I think there are two software modules on both bikes. I cannot find anything other than your post that refernces firmware updates including what the latest versions are and to learn what was fixed in each. Seems to be a guarded secret. Any more insight on software releases? Steep hills are not a problem. It works perfect for them. It's a calm, extended slope that seems to be unable to perceive my slowing down and difficulty pedaling.

I did get my Avenue's firmware upgraded. It did largely fix the delay in kicking in and also the over speeding. The battery meter is supposed to be a little more accurate but clearly is just measuring voltage rather than actual battery capacity. This makes it drop faster at the end of charge than at the beginning.

 

[PV_Randy]

I did get my Avenue's firmware upgraded. It did largely fix the delay in kicking in and also the over speeding. The battery meter is supposed to be a little more accurate but clearly is just measuring voltage rather than actual battery capacity. This makes it drop faster at the end of charge than at the beginning.

I just got the controller board firmware upgraded today. Fixed my PAS hill problem and runs very smoothly. Operates within a thin margin around the PAS target speed regardless of terrain or bike gear. Am pleased with their continued refinement of the bike performance.