500W enough on toseven?

[jfny1978]

I have converted bikes to ebikes before with Bafang motors. I am looking at converting a Specalized Crosstrail with a toseven motor. For my needs I think 500W should be enough but I'd like others opinions.

I weigh about 185 pounds, and I will occasionally have up to probably 50 pounds of stuff in my side bags.

I always peddle...I won't even install the throttle, and I have little desire to ever go over 18 MPH.

Essentially, I am making a Class 1 ebike.

Does the 500W motor sound like enough for these needs?

Thank you.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Does the 500W motor sound like enough for these needs?

I believe so.

I've ridden several Eurpoean e-bikes, up mountain trails in Italy, that were limited to 250W "continuous" power, and they all had plenty of power for the job. I've ridden a 250W Bosch ebike on the flats in Maimi, FL. Plenty of cruising power, especially going up casuway bridges 17mph, while towing a Roller Blading friend. No problems.

The 500W rating is for continuous power, so in times of great need you will be able to draw more power for a few seconds.

If you have a the drive train configured efficently, you will be fine, especially since it is a mid-drive.

Good luck.

 

[jfny1978]

I believe so.

I've ridden several Eurpoean e-bikes, up mountain trails in Italy, that were limited to 250W "continuous" power, and they all had plenty of power for the job. I've ridden a 250W Bosch ebike on the flats in Maimi, FL. Plenty of cruising power, especially going up casuway bridges, while towing a Roller Blading friend. No problems.

The 500W rating is for continuous power, so in times of great need you will be able to draw more power for a few seconds.

If you have a the drive train configured efficently, you will be fine, especially since it is a mid-drive.

Good luck.

Thank you! This is very helpful. My first ebike I built was a Bafang with a 750 Watt motor and it always felt like overkill for my needs, but I wanted to check.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Thank you! This is very helpful. My first ebike I built was a Bafang with a 750 Watt motor and it always felt like overkill for my needs, but I wanted to check.

Yes, I've got a Bafang BBSHD, it is overkill, but I like overkill.
I've got a 1500W Bafang Utltra MTB, and a 500W rear hub Aventon level.

You will be fine with a 500W rated mid-drive.

 

[indianajo]

I've burned a 350 w bafang motor by grinding slowly up 8% grades with 160 lb me and 60 lb groceries. A 1300 w ebikeling motor ran up 15% hills at 8 mph and wore out the gears eventually @ 4500 miles. A 1000 w Mac motor was capable of 8-10 mph up 12% grades and just wore out the clutch at about 3000 miles. I just had my first 10 miles with a 500 w motor (MXUS) and performance was not particularly impressive. On a 4% grade, before I got out to the 12% grades, it burnt a phase wire out of the terminal. I use Klein tool to make the crimps and do not apologize for my technique. It was a TE Connectivity terminal. I just ordered double crimp terminals from 3M via MCM in cleveland .

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I've burned a 350 w bafang motor by grinding slowly up 8% grades with 160 lb me and 60 lb groceries. A 1300 w ebikeling motor ran up 15% hills at 8 mph and wore out the gears eventually @ 4500 miles. A 1000 w Mac motor was capable of 8-10 mph up 12% grades and just wore out the clutch at about 3000 miles. I just had my first 10 miles with a 500 w motor (MXUS) and performance was not particularly impressive. On a 4% grade, before I got out to the 12% grades, it burnt a phase wire out of the terminal. I use Klein tool to make the crimps and do not apologize for my technique. It was a TE Connectivity terminal. I just ordered double crimp terminals from 3M via MCM in cleveland .

all rear hubs?

 

[indianajo]

All front geared hubs. Rear hub motors are not compatible with 8 speed sprocket cluster. 7 speed freewheels with 32 or bigger low sprocket are never stocked.

 

[harryS]

My wife and I ride the TSDZ2 mid drive DIY kits which have even less power than the Toseven, and enjoy them. I also own a BBS02B, and some 25A hubmotors, so I know about faster bikes. A low power mid drive has good climbing ability thru the gears ... goes anywhere a normal bike/rider can go and has the advantage of keeping the bike light. No need for a monster battery. Great for a recreational bike. If you need to haul cargo, or duel with cars at 25 mph, there are other choices.


If the Toseven is 500W as advertised and doesn't wear out like a Tongsheng, it ought to be a fine motor candidate.

 

[m@Robertson]

Really you want to forget about the watt ratings and look at what the motor is rated for in Newton Meters (Nm). Thats the torque the motor puts out and thats what you feel in terms of assist. The wattage rating is just a relative measure of how much abuse (current) the motor can take. More watts equal more continuous power. Sort of. The assumption is a motor with higher wattage ratings has beefier components inside, more copper windings and so on, which translates to the ability to handle sustained output for longer periods.

What I have heard on the grapevine so far on the ToSeven motors is they are a little anemic compared to, say, a BBS02 and especially a BBSHD. For my money, I would sit on the sidelines for another year and watch what happens to them. its too early to rely on one. Let some other pioneer take the arrows in the back. This kind of thinking is what kept me away from the Cyc Photon motor and it took more than a year for the inherent overheating issues in that motor to become more or less public knowledge.

A 185 lb rider and 50 lbs of gear to me translates to a duty cycle that is on the higher end of the need for durability. Something that is going to need to be robust. I would not err on the low side. You can always use less power by dialing back pedal assist. But you can't make a motor able to survive more abuse unless you replace it with something beefier.

 

[EMGX]

My wife and I ride the TSDZ2 mid drive DIY kits which have even less power than the Toseven, and enjoy them.

I have 500w 36v and 750w 48v versions of the TSDZ2, which on paper sounds same as Toseven rather than less powerful (?). Both are good performers but the 750w provides significantly more assistance if/when needed. Neither has run hot for me even with long steep climbs. I live on a mountain.

A low power mid drive has good climbing ability thru the gears ... goes anywhere a normal bike/rider can go and has the advantage of keeping the bike light.

That depends on your definition of "light". With chainring and crank arms TSDZ2 weights 8.8#, plus battery (minus weight of crankset/cartridge you remove). Easily 14# added weight to the bike, more with bigger batteries.

If the Toseven is 500W as advertised and doesn't wear out like a Tongsheng, it ought to be a fine motor candidate.

What wore out on yours? I don't remember the miles on mine exactly but I'm pretty sure well over 2000 miles on the 48v version and well over 1000 miles on the 36v. No problems or noticeable wear with either although neither is currently installed because I dislike the weight.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I am looking at converting a Specalized Crosstrail with a toseven motor. For my needs I think 500W should be enough but I'd like others opinions.
Does the 500W motor sound like enough for these needs?

Thank you.

Try reaching out to @PedalUma on the board
He builds the nicest custom ebikes, and has some experience with the 500W TOSEVEN motor.

 

[m@Robertson]

What wore out on yours?

The blue gear wearing out or breaking is what I have heard gripes about.

 

[EMGX]

Early on I bought a spare blue gear (<$10 including shipping st the time). Never had a need to use it though. Had one of the motors apart when converting to coaster brake compatible and the original blue gear still looked new, as did all of the internals. If I ever took it on more than a few days tour I'd bring the spare. It could be replaced as a roadside repair.

 

[PedalUma]

My problem has only been with the old style needle bearings inside of the blue gear. 500W nominal is just great. Many expensive bikes have about half that.
The Prodigy XC bike has a German Brose Sprinter at 90Nm and costs $1800. It is hard to compete against. It is essentially a $1000+ new bike, plus the motor, battery and display. I do not know how they can do it. Another version has a Gates.

 

[Jimmy666]

I have converted bikes to ebikes before with Bafang motors. I am looking at converting a Specalized Crosstrail with a toseven motor. For my needs I think 500W should be enough but I'd like others opinions.

I weigh about 185 pounds, and I will occasionally have up to probably 50 pounds of stuff in my side bags.

I always peddle...I won't even install the throttle, and I have little desire to ever go over 18 MPH.

Essentially, I am making a Class 1 ebike.

Does the 500W motor sound like enough for these needs?

Thank you.

I have almost 900 miles on my Dmo2 and I weigh 230lbs and I have no issues getting over 20mph even on grocery runs. As long as you use your gears correctly it will be more than enough. If you can get the offset chain ring so you don't have any chain line issues.