Luna Z1 - First impressions

[blueskyca]

Picked up my Z1 from the El Segundo Luna shop earlier this week. So far I'm pretty impressed with the bike and the Ultra motor feels very strong.

Pros:

• Pickup at the Luna shop was quick and easy, as long as you don't slit your wrists on the way driving through always congested LA.
• The bike was well packed in the box it came in and final assembly was pretty easy, even with no instructions.
• It's relatively light and nimble.
• The G510 ultra motor has plenty of power, routinely hitting 1500 watts.
• The Luna controller programming for the Ultra motor is generally very good with quick power engagement and disconnect and feels very smooth at most all speeds, except for very slow starts where it can be a bit jerky.
• Easy programmability of the controller will come in handy later. Luna even sells a cable to assist.
• Gear ratios are pretty well selected, favoring low speed gearing as you'd expect.
• Top speed is upper 30s on throttle and in high gear. Max peddling speed is around 30 before the cadence gets too fast.
• Even with a long haul up a 9% grade the motor was only slightly warm.
• The fork, shocks, brakes, and dropper post work very well.
• Good value for the level of components you get.

Cons:

• No owners manual, operating instructions, assembly instructions, torque values, ...
• I was kind of hoping the bike would be assembled and dialed-in since I was picking up at their shop, but that's not the case. I believe they will assemble for an extra charge.
• There is no frame serial number if you want to register the bike. I just used the motor serial number as Luna advised.
• The derailleur was not properly adjusted out of the box.
• All spokes on both wheels needed tightening.
• SRAM SX shifting is not very smooth and difficult to get cleanly adjusted. Apparently there are lots of complaints about the SX line.
• Even PAS 1 is pretty aggressive and adds quite a bit of power via torque sensing.
• Quality control is a little sketchy. One example is the charger port that was not properly attached to the frame and pulls out every time you pull the charger plug out.
• The charger is a low current (2.8A) low cost unit. It's basically the same as the one that came with my girlfriend's $900 Lectric eBike. Pretty disappointing for a premium bike.
• The paint job is cool, but a little inconsistent. Lots of metal flake on the bottom, much less on the top tube.
• The carbon frame is naturally a little wavy.
• Climbing a grade for 45 minutes, I watched battery level slowly drop to 55%, then plummet to 20% within the next 2 minutes. Luckily my return is mainly downhill. I only have a couple cycles on the battery so I expect performance and range to improve. I got about 18 miles on this ride with the battery at 13% when I returned.
• I'm still trying to figure out how to get a rear rack on this for my longer rides for carrying tools and aux batteries. Not sure about clamping to the dropper post outer tube.

More to come, but overall I think the Z1 will be a great bike and I think it's a better choice than the X2 or X1 for most riders.

 

[blueskyca]

Is the fork a rockshox lyrik?

I wish. It's a Yari which still seems to work pretty good. It's actually the same chassis as the Lyrik and you can even install Lyrik dampers in it to make it virtually the same.

 

[JRA]

Congrats @blueskyca. I will be joining you on Wednesday. To be honest I was targeting the X2 but missed the medium there and decided to try the Z1 instead of doing the down graded X2 to DNM and waiting even more. I have been wanting a new bike for over a year without committing to anything and it was time.

The 20ish mile range has me in a bit of state of shock however but without knowing the circumstances completely I am hoping that how I plan on riding it will yield twice that. Most importantly I got, and can still get, my 30mph+ yah yah's out on my e road bikes but don't even do that on them due to range being key. However at those speeds I am burning 30wh/mi whereas you are close to 40? I guess I'll see but I am hoping that running the Ultra motor at lower amperage will result in around 20wh/mi or a bit less.

I'll be checking over the bike pretty well before doing much of a ride and torque values are on my list as most carbon bikes are sensitive to them I know. Some pivot bolts I've seen have the values visible on the head of the bolt. I wouldn't imagine that LUNA or Dengfu might even have them but if they do they should share for sure. Maybe reaching out on the LUNA forum will help with that. Otherwise I don't expect much from all the other components but info is easy to find online. I'm 100 miles from the closest bike shop so I am used to figuring out things on my own.

Upon advice of a friend more familiar with longer travel systems than myself, coming from a XC travel background, I ordered the 170mm left cartridge to start with and going to get with him to dial in the sag and such next weekend.

As far as shifting goes I am pretty good at dialing in that aspect and in fact am switching right away to a grip shift as a 12spd version is readily available and relatively cheap. It is what I have used for quite awhile now and while installing will be able to properly lube the cable and size the housing if necessary. As well as set the b tension screw. I am hoping that there is not the chafing as described with these in the higher gears but beefing up the chainstay protection might be necessary right off.

Otherwise my plan is to set up as tubeless right away, add fenders and strip the ugly LUNA logo off as hopefully they are just vinyl?

 

[blueskyca]

My dismal range is mainly due to the 2000' elevation climb that I routinely do on my other eBikes. Based on my other bikes, I should be able to do ~ 40 miles on flat ground.

The seatpost clamp and the linkage bolts do have torque values on them, but that's about it.

I'm afraid we're stuck with the Luna logo as it's clear-coated on to the frame. I'm not crazy about the rolling billboard look either but I'm going to live with it for a while.

As far as a rear rack, against popular opinion I ordered a Topeak QR BeamRack MTX Bike Rack (A Type) that clamps to the dropper seatpost outer tube.

 

[rtp]

I didnt see you mentioning chainstay issues - are you seeing any rubbing on the chainstay going through the gears? (Hope not!)
My X2 comes on Wed, but I’m sure the Z1 would have been a good fallback (for my intended use..for others it may well be a better choice vs X2..)
Have you ridden other Ultra bikes? Wondering if any firmware updates or default controller settings have changed.
How many PAS levels are you set to, and are they reasonably spread out incrementally as one would expect?

PS - congrats on the new bike!

 

[JRA]

Napa has paint that will stick very good on paint to delete the logo.

Oh, it will be gone......and black is the easiest to get rid of luckily!

 

[JRA]

My dismal range is mainly due to the 2000' elevation climb that I routinely do on my other eBikes. Based on my other bikes, I should be able to do ~ 40 miles on flat ground.

Still hoping for better but I ride slow....I do 2.5/30mile rides here on my TSDZ2 with a 624wh 2170 cell battery.

The seatpost clamp and the linkage bolts do have torque values on them, but that's about it.

I'm afraid we're stuck with the Luna logo as it's clear-coated on to the frame. I'm not crazy about the rolling billboard look either but I'm going to live with it for a while.

That's a bummer in a way but still deletable in another. If they had used a black letter I would let it slide.

 

[blueskyca]

I didnt see you mentioning chainstay issues - are you seeing any rubbing on the chainstay going through the gears? (Hope not!)
My X2 comes on Wed, but I’m sure the Z1 would have been a good fallback (for my intended use..for others it may well be a better choice vs X2..)
Have you ridden other Ultra bikes? Wondering if any firmware updates or default controller settings have changed.
How many PAS levels are you set to, and are they reasonably spread out incrementally as one would expect?

PS - congrats on the new bike!

Going through the gears is certainly not all that smooth, but no indications of any chain rubbing yet. The questions will have me getting some extra protection just in case.

The only other Ultra bike I've ridden is my buddy's M2S full suspension rig. His bike is heavier and doesn't seem nearly as quick. The M2S supposedly comes with a 25 amp controller limit where the Luna is set to 30.

I've got 5 PAS levels right now but it appears easy to change, up to 9. My only complaint is even PAS 1 is pretty punchy - I would like to see a lower assist level. 1-5 seem pretty well spaced out although I haven't spent much time above PAS 3. The Ultra motor gets praise for it's easy user programming with a simpler UART interface and free software compared to the CANBUS models. I may tweak some of the knobs one day.

 

[blueskyca]

Oh, it will be gone......and black is the easiest to get rid of luckily!

It's not exactly black but pretty close. Luna calls it galaxy, which is basically black with multicolor metal flake.

 

[blueskyca]

I would like you to paste a photo of the rear rack

I've already got the MTX bag that slides on this rack from my other bike so it was easy to keep things in the family. There's concern that the clamp may prevent the dropper from actuating so I'm going to be the guinea pig with this.

 

[JES2020]

Picked up my Z1 from the El Segundo Luna shop earlier this week. So far I'm pretty impressed with the bike and the Ultra motor feels very strong.

Pros:

• Pickup at the Luna shop was quick and easy, as long as you don't slit your wrists on the way driving through always congested LA.
• The bike was well packed in the box it came in and final assembly was pretty easy, even with no instructions.
• It's relatively light and nimble.
• The G510 ultra motor has plenty of power, routinely hitting 1500 watts.
• The Luna controller programming for the Ultra motor is generally very good with quick power engagement and disconnect and feels very smooth at most all speeds, except for very slow starts where it can be a bit jerky.
• Easy programmability of the controller will come in handy later. Luna even sells a cable to assist.
• Gear ratios are pretty well selected, favoring low speed gearing as you'd expect.
• Top speed is upper 30s on throttle and in high gear. Max peddling speed is around 30 before the cadence gets too fast.
• Even with a long haul up a 9% grade the motor was only slightly warm.
• The fork, shocks, brakes, and dropper post work very well.
• Good value for the level of components you get.

Cons:

• No owners manual, operating instructions, assembly instructions, torque values, ...
• I was kind of hoping the bike would be assembled and dialed-in since I was picking up at their shop, but that's not the case. I believe they will assemble for an extra charge.
• There is no frame serial number if you want to register the bike. I just used the motor serial number as Luna advised.
• The derailleur was not properly adjusted out of the box.
• All spokes on both wheels needed tightening.
• SRAM SX shifting is not very smooth and difficult to get cleanly adjusted. Apparently there are lots of complaints about the SX line.
• Even PAS 1 is pretty aggressive and adds quite a bit of power via torque sensing.
• Quality control is a little sketchy. One example is the charger port that was not properly attached to the frame and pulls out every time you pull the charger plug out.
• The charger is a low current (2.8A) low cost unit. It's basically the same as the one that came with my girlfriend's $900 Lectric eBike. Pretty disappointing for a premium bike.
• The paint job is cool, but a little inconsistent. Lots of metal flake on the bottom, much less on the top tube.
• The carbon frame is naturally a little wavy.
• Climbing a grade for 45 minutes, I watched battery level slowly drop to 55%, then plummet to 20% within the next 2 minutes. Luckily my return is mainly downhill. I only have a couple cycles on the battery so I expect performance and range to improve. I got about 18 miles on this ride with the battery at 13% when I returned.
• I'm still trying to figure out how to get a rear rack on this for my longer rides for carrying tools and aux batteries. Not sure about clamping to the dropper post outer tube.

More to come, but overall I think the Z1 will be a great bike and I think it's a better choice than the X2 or X1 for most riders.

Your charger plug washer nut loosened . Ten to one it's inside the frame still attached to the wires .
Trick is to get access to the inside of the frame.

 

[blueskyca]

Your charger plug washer nut loosened . Ten to one it's inside the frame still attached to the wires .
Trick is to get access to the inside of the frame.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the nut was never even screwed on during assembly. The misery involved in removing the motor to get access to it means I'm probably going to look for an adhesive solution.

 

[JES2020]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the nut was never even screwed on during assembly. The misery involved in removing the motor to get access to it means I'm probably going to look for an adhesive solution.

I recently found a very useful adhesive that I would try on your application. It's called E6000, it's fairly thick and dries to a strong rubbery plastic like bond. apply a thick coat to the threads let it try until gooey, then push the socket into the frame. Maybe give the socket a turn to try and get the E6000 behind the frame for a secure bond.
One thing though the stuff is nearly indestructible when dry so use it with that in mind.
You can get it in black so it would blend in with your frame.

Amazon.com

 

[JRA]

I recently found a very useful adhesive that I would try on your application. It's called E6000, it's fairly thick and dries to a strong rubbery plastic like bond. apply a thick coat to the threads let it try until gooey, then push the socket into the frame. Maybe give the socket a turn to try and get the E6000 behind the frame for a secure bond.
One thing though the stuff is nearly indestructible when dry so use it with that in mind.
You can get it in black so it would blend in with your frame.

Amazon.com

I was going to suggest a CA glue but that product sounds impressive and inexpensive to boot. I just ordered a tube to have on hand as I can see it being useful for some other situations. Thanks for the tip!

 

[blueskyca]

I recently found a very useful adhesive that I would try on your application. It's called E6000, it's fairly thick and dries to a strong rubbery plastic like bond. apply a thick coat to the threads let it try until gooey, then push the socket into the frame. Maybe give the socket a turn to try and get the E6000 behind the frame for a secure bond.
One thing though the stuff is nearly indestructible when dry so use it with that in mind.
You can get it in black so it would blend in with your frame.

Amazon.com

Thanks. I actually have an old tube of E6000 on hand in clear but I'll grab a tube in black.

 

[JES2020]

It's not exactly black but pretty close. Luna calls it galaxy, which is basically black with multicolor metal flake.

Funny , because that is the color of my Lexus, called "black diamond". It's a beautiful blend, I love it.

The other thing is if you're careful you wont see the E6000 anyway.

After thinking about it, I would suggest you try to insert a thick ring of E6000 behind the frame (with a bent wire or something) that will bond with the thread application upon insertion. This will prevent the plug from slipping out when you pull out the charger cord.

 

[rtp]

Going through the gears is certainly not all that smooth, but no indications of any chain rubbing yet. The questions will have me getting some extra protection just in case.

The only other Ultra bike I've ridden is my buddy's M2S full suspension rig. His bike is heavier and doesn't seem nearly as quick. The M2S supposedly comes with a 25 amp controller limit where the Luna is set to 30.

Seems like they set it for 750W configuration vs 1KW then... that bike is also a fair amount heavier if I'm not mistaken.. ?
Notice any difference in how the power is applied (as opposed to one being faster) across the levels?
Just really curios as Luna likes to say 'tuned by Luna' but at least for the Ludi v1 - that wasn't a positive thing for most.

I've got 5 PAS levels right now but it appears easy to change, up to 9. My only complaint is even PAS 1 is pretty punchy - I would like to see a lower assist level. 1-5 seem pretty well spaced out although I haven't spent much time above PAS 3. The Ultra motor gets praise for it's easy user programming with a simpler UART interface and free software compared to the CANBUS models. I may tweak some of the knobs one day.

If it's programmed sanely, switching to 9 levels will just give a bit more granularity, e.g. if you think PAS 1 of 5 is a bit over-powered, PAS 1 of 9 should be a bit lower in comparison, 2 should be == current 1 of 5, etc. If not, then yeah - a programming cable or Eggrider is your friend. The cables are $20 or so, not much...

 

[JES2020]

I was going to suggest a CA glue but that product sounds impressive and inexpensive to boot. I just ordered a tube to have on hand as I can see it being useful for some other situations. Thanks for the tip!

It's is a very useful thing to have around. I bought both the black and the clear automotive, which is impervious to gas and oil. I actually successfully re attached the rubber tip on the carburetor float bowl fill needle. A tiny application that actually held up !

 

[rtp]

Oh, meant to ask - as 'first buyers of new model' did you get the toolkit etc. or just the bike?

 

[Jeebuspwnz]

I got mine on Friday. Didn't have the issue with the charge port that the OP had. I do echo his thoughts on the other areas though. Managed to snap the chain on my second ride though, ugh.

This is my first mid drive ebike. I have two other hub motor bikes (csc ft750 and juiced scorpion). I also have two sur-rons. I didn't think I was going too wild with power while being in too tall of a gear, but maybe I need to level set my expectations.