What makes you think by next month it'll get any cheaper? I'm quite interested in the ST2's so i'm curious what information you have because I do want to make a purchase soon. How much cheaper and what information can you share. I would greatly appreciate it!
Adrian
Active Member
Not sure why anyone would pay a lot for a bike which has silly marketing stuff like this written all over their website;
"MORE POWER
The ST2’s new and more compact SYNO Drive motor not only provides 500W of power, but an enormous 35Nm of torque too: that’s more than enough to put a very big smile on your face when you step on its pedals. It also comes as a big relief when the challenges of hills or steep roads lie in your path. "
Admittedly, it's an okay looking bike with some nice high tech options but why on earth couldn't they put in a decent mid drive motor? Ignoring the motor and drive train a moment, why spend much on a bike that doesn't even have decent suspension? It's the advanced drive and suspension systems in bikes produced by Haibike, M1 and similar that justify their high price tags - not $5 iPhone apps.
"MORE POWER
The ST2’s new and more compact SYNO Drive motor not only provides 500W of power, but an enormous 35Nm of torque too: that’s more than enough to put a very big smile on your face when you step on its pedals. It also comes as a big relief when the challenges of hills or steep roads lie in your path. "
Admittedly, it's an okay looking bike with some nice high tech options but why on earth couldn't they put in a decent mid drive motor? Ignoring the motor and drive train a moment, why spend much on a bike that doesn't even have decent suspension? It's the advanced drive and suspension systems in bikes produced by Haibike, M1 and similar that justify their high price tags - not $5 iPhone apps.
bluecat
Well-Known Member
I could argue with technical reasons an the legacy from Thömus Veloshop. But you won't read. So I say it different:
For mid-drives, look at Grace. As soon as the Porsche 911 comes with front motor and front wheel drive, I'll ask the engineers from my Stromer AG to build a mid drive. And of course, you can buy a suspension fork for the ST2, but with all my experience, I couldn't find a reason for.
Adrian
Active Member
Yes, but at 35Nm of torque I can't see why you'd want that over a more powerful hub - the marketing blurb of their entirely average hub is hyperbolic rhetoric at best and, at worst, you could say that it's downright deliberately misleading.
Adrian
Active Member
You've missed my point. It's not that it doesn't have it - there's a place for average hub drives on hard tails without front suspension forks but that's not on expensive bikes made to look like something special by marketing rhetoric.
Adrian
Active Member
And I quote, "an enormous 35Nm of torque too". Come on, that's not even close to being enormous - you can get cheap alibaba 250w motors with that.
Ravi Kempaiah
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I created a new thread to discuss Torque ratings.
http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/torque-rating-on-e-bikes-marketing-gimmick.2467/
Their marketing dept must be all men... and we know how men like to exaggerate size. Enormous? As if!
Yeah.... it's all men's fault anyway
Ravi Kempaiah
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As model year comes to an end, it's inevitable.
There are several dealers who offer free ABUS lock, Ortleib pannier, Body Float seatpost along with ST2 purchase. There are others who simply discount it.
Ravi Kempaiah
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This is how ENORMOUS 70Nm torque feels like !!!
Read this whole blog. He is a very experienced DIY guy. Lots of real world data that you can verify.
https://electricfatbike.wordpress.c...ride-uninspiring-torque-and-outrageous-price/
Rick Huizinga
Active Member
When aggressively taking off from a stand-still in power level 3, it feels like an enormous amount of torque. It will pop a wheelie when taking off, and the rider needs to limit the amount of torque to keep both wheels on the ground.
I haven't ridden other e-bikes to provide a comparison, but the amount of torque on the ST2 is more than adequate.
Adrian
Active Member
More than adequate is not exactly the same as "enormous" now is it?
I have a 750w BBS02 with apparently 120Nm of torque and that feels adequate to me. I'd not describe is as enormous. So yes, I think the marketing hype of Stromer's patently average hub motor, is just that, hype.
Ravi Kempaiah
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The thing about BBS-02 is, it has good torque but it's power delivery is nowhere as refined as Bosch or Impulse.
On Endless Sphere, one can read several reports of jammed chain, broken derailleurs, worn out cassettes (quicker than expected) etc. Also, 48V, 750W BBS-02 bolted onto many aluminum road/hybrid-style bikes experience much larger twisting and flex and as a result, frames are bent.
Then you start looking at steel frames and hydraulic brakes and sensors to assuage this problem. The extra cost, time and money can be considered as learning cost but not everyone wants to do that. Also, a decent system with BBS02, Hydro brakes w/ motor cutoff, RockShox suspension, XT derailleur, cassette, stiff frame etc will easily cost you $3K and at that point you're looking at a very nice Haibike which has all those but with slightly lesser torque but a solid warranty, not a china pay-return-shipping warranty.
On Endless Sphere, one can read several reports of jammed chain, broken derailleurs, worn out cassettes (quicker than expected) etc. Also, 48V, 750W BBS-02 bolted onto many aluminum road/hybrid-style bikes experience much larger twisting and flex and as a result, frames are bent.
Then you start looking at steel frames and hydraulic brakes and sensors to assuage this problem. The extra cost, time and money can be considered as learning cost but not everyone wants to do that. Also, a decent system with BBS02, Hydro brakes w/ motor cutoff, RockShox suspension, XT derailleur, cassette, stiff frame etc will easily cost you $3K and at that point you're looking at a very nice Haibike which has all those but with slightly lesser torque but a solid warranty, not a china pay-return-shipping warranty.
Adrian
Active Member
Yes, I agree with most of that. But it doesn't negate my original point.
Cameron Newland
Well-Known Member
Actually, a lot of people buy ebikes that can go 30MPH. The Stromer ST2 does, whereas most Haibikes don't. And mid drives are not necessarily any better than rear hub motors. My rear hub motor ebike climbs hills faster than the Haibike FS RX does. If anything, rear hub motors have proved to be more reliable than mid-drives. It is a shame that the Stromer lacks at least a front suspension fork, however, there are many other options on the market for consumers to choose from.
D
Deleted member 803
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I'm not so sure. I was told by a reliable source that the models will continue unchanged but that another option with a DI2 system and a 1KW battery will be added. If I were a smart dealer I would not discount heavily since model year delineation is only important if there are feature set changes. And if Stromer does have a higher price point on its flagship product, every single smart IBD/EBD will make the product available on special order only.
My understanding is that Stromer is aggressively seeking to reduce inventories (not an uncommon practice among vendors) and, like years past, is willing to make some screaming deals to those dealers who have cash and who can help alleviate their inventory with large purchases. In these instances you may be able to find a dealer who is willing to blow them out outside of their local market via interstate shipping. Stromer has a double edged sword here. On the one hand they want their inventory gone, and on the other hand, heavily discounted bikes sold to out-of-market customers absolutely destroys local markets.
Let me give you an example. Sports Basement purchased ALL of Canondale's US excess year end inventory. They have models on the floor with retail prices that are significantly below the average dealer cost. I saw a very good quality road bike with an Ultegra DI2 system for $2900.
I'd make a substantial bet that ST2's represent a tiny fraction of the ebike market in North America. A very expensive product in a nascent market in which there is no need, demand, or brand awareness is not something any CEO would look favorably upon. I'd be shocked if there were more than a few thousand sold in North America since introduction. Currie is much more likely to have dominant market share since they have much deeper distribution, broader range of product and broader range of prices.
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Rick Huizinga
Active Member
It will be interesting to see if it the DI2 will be powered via the Stromer main battery, or whether it need its own battery pack to be charged separately.
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