2016 Haibike Updates from Interbike

[Ann M.]

Ken Miner of Haibike gave Court the low down on the new Haibike line and more!

Haibike is launching an entirely new line of electric bikes for 2016 and Ken Miner (Director of Sales for Haibike USA) shows me some of the highlights here. We discuss the Bosch powered line which offers 75 Nm of torque along with the Yamaha powered line, there are over 40 models ranging in price from $2,499 to $8,900. For 2016 they are also introducing four speed pedelec 28+ mph models including a full suspension, trekking, urban and race. This video interview was shot at Interbike 2015 in Las Vegas Nevada.

 

[MLWilcox]

Court - good to see you got out of bed to check out the Haibikes. They all look beyond awesome.

 

[George S.]

I think it's interesting that there will be a $2500 Yamaha Haibike. It seems to have been kicking around Europe and Britain for a while. Beats me what the timing will be and when there will be some reviews and all that.

A lot of the 'value' bikes (new 2016) put out by the BH/Acc have some real limitations. Rear batteries and micro batteries, for example. I don't know if this Haibike will be a really high quality bike at a more decent price, or not. The Raleigh offerings are interesting.

The Bafang HD is still out there, plus the Bafang Max. People will pay a premium to buy through dealers, or at least I will. I'm not sure if they will shift the perception of 'value' for people under $3000. I'm not sure that locking people into expensive proprietary batteries is a great strategy.

Rather limited Speed Pedelec offerings in the Haibike line. This is sort of playing into Bafang's strengths with the HD, even if it is pretty much illegal. If you want speed, buy a Bafang, apparently.

 

[MLB]

I think it's interesting that there will be a $2500 Yamaha Haibike. It seems to have been kicking around Europe and Britain for a while. Beats me what the timing will be and when there will be some reviews and all that.

A lot of the 'value' bikes (new 2016) put out by the BH/Acc have some real limitations. Rear batteries and micro batteries, for example. I don't know if this Haibike will be a really high quality bike at a more decent price, or not. The Raleigh offerings are interesting.

The Bafang HD is still out there, plus the Bafang Max. People will pay a premium to buy through dealers, or at least I will. I'm not sure if they will shift the perception of 'value' for people under $3000. I'm not sure that locking people into expensive proprietary batteries is a great strategy.

Rather limited Speed Pedelec offerings in the Haibike line. This is sort of playing into Bafang's strengths with the HD, even if it is pretty much illegal. If you want speed, buy a Bafang, apparently.

The new Haibikes are coming with a 500ah battery. Don't know if that includes the cheaper models or if its an optional upgrade.
The bafang enthusiasts should remember that they are still the iffy quality Chinese made, no support, etc etc that has always been.
They've simply gotten popular enough (for good reason) that some reputable chaps have gotten involved and actually stocked replacement parts, honor a warranty, etc etc
The Chinese SUCK at giving a sh*t about anything but their $$$, so I really hate to see them talked up as a major player here in the same terms as manufacturers building quality bicycles with fully worked out electronics and mechanicals that work and last and are supported by brick and morter shops with trained techs and parts.
There's a HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEE $$$$ outlay there that Bafang and it's ilk spend 00000000000000000000000000000000 on.
The Bafangs of the world operate outside international laws and proprieties and it's a shame they get financially rewarded for that. JMO!!!

 

[George S.]

The Bafangs of the world operate outside international laws and proprieties and it's a shame they get financially rewarded for that. JMO!!!

Substitute 'Volkswagen' for Bafang.

The Volkswagens of the world operate outside international laws and proprieties and it's a shame they get financially rewarded for that. JMO!!!

Haibikes are made in Germany, as I understand it. The home of Volkswagen.

Will the SDuro line that comes into the US be made in Germany, or shipped from China?

You might want to study where most ebike parts come from, where most ebikes are assembled. Doubly so for anything that comes into the US.

 

[Adrian]

Yes, the newer BBS02 had some controversy over its controllers failing but those issues are mostly resolved.

Support wise, there are many places selling these drives with stellar support - who cares that the support is not directly from Bafang? I got my BBS02 controller replaced free of charge from California ebike -priority shipped on Friday the day after 4th July from California to Northern Europe and I received it on the Monday. Like to hear a Bosch owner equal that.

And as was said above, there's little difference in where these ebike parts are made I think. Except Bosch has a huge markup on motors and batteries.

I'm guessing there could be some serious worry at the Bosch ebike division over the Bafang max drive after it beat all the Bosch teams in the recent 24 hour race too.

 

[Deleted member 803]

The new Haibikes are coming with a 500ah battery. Don't know if that includes the cheaper models or if its an optional upgrade.
The bafang enthusiasts should remember that they are still the iffy quality Chinese made, no support, etc etc that has always been.
They've simply gotten popular enough (for good reason) that some reputable chaps have gotten involved and actually stocked replacement parts, honor a warranty, etc etc
The Chinese SUCK at giving a sh*t about anything but their $$$, so I really hate to see them talked up as a major player here in the same terms as manufacturers building quality bicycles with fully worked out electronics and mechanicals that work and last and are supported by brick and morter shops with trained techs and parts.
There's a HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEE $$$$ outlay there that Bafang and it's ilk spend 00000000000000000000000000000000 on.
The Bafangs of the world operate outside international laws and proprieties and it's a shame they get financially rewarded for that. JMO!!!

As someone who has used China manufacturers for decades I can pretty reliably state that your comment that "Chinese suck" is completely wrong. If you truly believe your comment then you'd probably be wise to throw out your TV, kitchen appliances, mobile phones, solar panels, medical equipment, and even your Christmas tree lights. Fairly is a chinese manufacturer of bicycles and is world class with manufacturing and engineering capabilities second to none. And if you take both Giant and Fairly combined, it would be advised to dump your ebike because chances are one of these two companies had a hand in manufacturing and engineering it.

 

[MLB]

And the cheapie parts lovers go crazy!

Yes, Chinese junk. There I said it.

Sorry, I know it's not ALL junk, but much of it is.

And the really sad thing is most of you have just come to accept it as normal...........

 

[MLB]

As someone who has used China manufacturers for decades I can pretty reliably state that your comment that "Chinese suck" is completely wrong. If you truly believe your comment then you'd probably be wise to throw out your TV, kitchen appliances, mobile phones, solar panels, medical equipment, and even your Christmas tree lights. Fairly is a chinese manufacturer of bicycles and is world class with manufacturing and engineering capabilities second to none. And if you take both Giant and Fairly combined, it would be advised to dump your ebike because chances are one of these two companies had a hand in manufacturing and engineering it.

Well first off, I didn't say Chinese suck, I said they suck at giving a s*it about warranties and such, which if actually used all those things you claim(!) you would know all to well.

Secondly, ok, 1% of Chinese goods are decent quality. Happy?

 

[Cameron Newland]

Yes, the newer BBS02 had some controversy over its controllers failing but those issues are mostly resolved.

BBS02 bearings have failed quite often, too.

 

[Cameron Newland]

Well first off, I didn't say Chinese suck, I said they suck at giving a s*it about warranties and such, which if actually used all those things you claim(!) you would know all to well.

Secondly, ok, 1% of Chinese goods are decent quality. Happy?

I'm surprised you own an ebike, considering that almost the entire supply chain for a bicycle is in mainland China or Taiwan. Quality depends on what you buy and from what supplier(s), not necessarily the country of origin.

 

[JoePah]

How many failures have those BBS mid drives had, and in how many varieties.?

I've known Americans who had their larger trawrlers built in China and they all say the same thing. If you want quality, you had better be there.

Buy from a reputable dealer who is selling Chinese parts or bikes. Let them provide the warranty. Let them deal with the headaches.

 

[Adrian]

BBS02 bearings have failed quite often, too.

I've heard of one or two bearing incidents but not many. I wouldn't be surprised if the bearing failures were related to the BB seal too - water and/or grit causing damage.

 

[Adrian]

Well first off, I didn't say Chinese suck, I said they suck at giving a s*it about warranties and such, which if actually used all those things you claim(!) you would know all to well.

Secondly, ok, 1% of Chinese goods are decent quality. Happy?

If you order directly from China then of course you're going to suffer from some fairly poor warranty support in general (I'm not including Em3ev in that description as, by all accounts, support is excellent and Paul and his employees have been quick to answer my queries). However, the vast majority of "Chinese ebikes" aren't bought directly from China but through local or national suppliers which do have good support - Lectric Cycles, California Ebike, etc. And the same goes for almost all products produced in China - or did you buy your iPhone and washing machine from Alibaba?

 

[George S.]

Well, this guy has a serious dislike of the BBS02:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/3c2tuy/lifespan_bafang_bbs02_by_8fun/

There's no reason to believe these comments are accurate because there are simply too many motors out there.

It would be nice to know how smoothly the Yamaha will function. It will be nice to know how tough it is, what the weak points are, and how long it will last. I think they are putting a 5 year warranty on the Haibikes with the Yamaha.

Karl has an interesting summary of 'fixes' for the BBS02. He knows these drives inside and out. No mention of bearings.

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/09/24/wish-list-for-future-bafang-mid-drive-bbsxx-kits/#more-2155

Since he says they sell 'millions' in China, thousands in the US, it's better to look at it from the Chinese perspective. Karl want's high power units, and this is my point. If the US builders want a high power mid-drive, they can't buy a Haibike.

Now that the warm glow of Interbike is fading, it's still a US market divided between Asian power and European refinement. If Bafang is selling 'millions' of units in China, their cost structure is way better than Bosch and Yamaha.