20 MPH vs. 28 MPH Ebikes

[Marci jo]

Thanks. I may have been working with wrong number on the torque for the SL. Which explains the difference in performance. All the more reason I'm happy I chose the Vado 5.0.

Whoo hoo! Congrats mh12345.
I have both class 3 and class 1. Maybe it’s the Brose motor with the class 3 but the 90 nm of torque is addicting. It’s so smooth fast and responsive. My class 1, while way lighter for hauling, is only 50 nm of torque. And the Bosch Active Plus cuts out at exactly 19.6 mph and it feels like a definite wall. So for sure the next bike will be class 3.
Many fun miles to you.

 

[Art Deco]

Whoo hoo! Congrats mh12345.
I have both class 3 and class 1. Maybe it’s the Brose motor with the class 3 but the 90 nm of torque it is addicting. It’s so smooth fast and responsive. My class 1, while way lighter for hauling, is only 50 nm of torque. And the Bosch Active Plus cuts out at exactly 19.6 mph and it feels like a definite wall. So for sure the next bike will be class 3.
Many fun miles to you.

@marcijo

Does anyone up your way care about class 3 bikes on trails? From your comments on the forum, it looks like you can ride anywhere bikes can go ... apparently Pennsylvania is taking another look at class 3 bikes ... technically illegal here, but not enforced ... yet.

 

[mh12345]

Whoo hoo! Congrats mh12345.
I have both class 3 and class 1. Maybe it’s the Brose motor with the class 3 but the 90 nm of torque it is addicting. It’s so smooth fast and responsive. My class 1, while way lighter for hauling, is only 50 nm of torque. And the Bosch Active Plus cuts out at exactly 19.6 mph and it feels like a definite wall. So for sure the next bike will be class 3.
Many fun miles to you.

Ha! Many thanks. I’m annoyed a tropical storm is passing through today, not because the power’s out and limbs are falling, but because I can’t ride!

 

[Art Deco]

I think it's odd that almost all the online only bikes are listed as class 3, but don't often have the tires, suspension, big battery, or hydraulic brakes to handle the speed. I wouldn't say they are unsafe since I haven't ridden many of them, but the additional stress from bumps and wear at high speed is worrisome on a "one size fits all" frame . That tells me that not a lot of riders are going over twenty mph often.

 

[Browneye]

Specialized are REALLY nice bikes. You're gonna love it.

 

[Marci jo]

@marcijo

Does anyone up your way care about class 3 bikes on trails? From your comments on the forum, it looks like you can ride anywhere bikes can go ... apparently Pennsylvania is taking another look at class 3 bikes ... technically illegal here, but not enforced ... yet.

Good point. Actually the class 3 are officially illegal. Enforcement is another point since visually there’s no difference.
I personally prefer to take the class 3 on a wide shouldered road. It’s just easier to turn it loose. If I do go on a trail I go slower, especially if there’s a multitude of mixed speed users.

 

[abpdx]

I have a Momentum Transend E+ that is class 3 (28mph) and I really like being able to move with traffic and be less of an obstruction to traffic. My wife is looking into getting an Ebike and we have narrowed the search down to either another Transend E+ with a step-trough frame or a Momentum Vida E+ which is a class 1 (20mph). Looking at the spec sheets, both bikes are equipped with the same components and same Yamaha based Giant Sync Drive motors, but the Vida uses a 38-tooth chainring whereas the Transend uses a 42-tooth chainring. So it would appear that the Vida may have the upper hand in his climbing even though the motors are identical.

What do you think the range is on the Momentum Transend E+?

 

[ElevenAD]

meh, just get something with an Ultra or BBSHD motor like a Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra an M2S Ultra or even a Sonders Ultra, any of them will tackle any hill you encounter, even with just the throttle, they usually ship limited to 20mph but you can change this in setting with a passcode, if your set on a Bosch powered bike better go with the Cargo/Cargo Speed or a CX.

 

[Admin]

Man... I was just reading your bio signature there @Browneye and you have some nice bikes!! I really want to cover some of the new Giant models but it has been difficult to coordinate due to limited hours and communications. How do you like the Trance E+2 Pro?

 

[Coolbob]

What do you think the range is on the Momentum Transend E+?

@abpdx, funny you should ask. I've had my Transend E+ for almost 3-months. I've been using the giant Ride Control on all buy one of my rides (forgot to launch app) and I've ridden it about 350 miles so far. It's kinda hilly where I live, I typically encounter about one mile of elevation gain for every 15 miles ridden. My average speeds run about 12-15mph, I may get it in top gear and boogie for short distance now and then, but usually I'm just taking in the sights. I actually like the 'Auto' assist mode and use it all the time. Originally I estimated max range to be about 40-45 per charge, but it seems like the battery is performing even better now and I'd estimate 50-55 miles per charge.

 

[Browneye]

Man... I was just reading your bio signature there @Browneye and you have some nice bikes!! I really want to cover some of the new Giant models but it has been difficult to coordinate due to limited hours and communications. How do you like the Trance E+2 Pro?

Well thanks. We've been having a LOT of fun. And I have really enjoyed the forum, it's an excellent resource.
We have a thread that's been going on for months here, on mountain bikes. We have some outstanding contributors:

eMTB Options For 2024

Bring all your ideas here for mountain bike options for 2020 - now 2023 We had a lot of great discussion on bikes and models in Lenny's 50% off thread but some members complained about the thread content being relevant. So here's a thread to discuss all the options and bike styles, what you...

electricbikereview.com

What started out as a casual interest in making bicycling easier, turned into a quest for the ultimate in ebikes. Meeting some of the early players and seeing the progression of engineering and design has been a great source of entertainment.

Sam was an early adopter and promotor of ebikes at Fullerton Electric Bikes. Meeting him and being able to pick his brain gave me a opportunity to really accelerate the learning curve and quest for learning how this pheonomenon has taken shape over recent years.
I was really sad to see him sell his store and move to the far east. Perhaps one day we'll get to visit again. He was supposed to come back in April for a real send-off, but this pandemic thing has really changed everything, everywhere.

His preferrence for, and eary adoption of Yamaha drive systems really dovetailed with my fifty+ years experience with motorcycles. I've been riding offroad since about 1967. When I learned Yamaha was such a big player it just clicked with me.

With Giant being the largest bike maker in the world, teamed up with Yamaha as one of the premier power sports manufacturing companies in the world, it was like a no-brainer. I have not been let down, not even one iota. LOL

My first foray into ebikes was bafang hub kit to convert wife's bike. Then I discovered Giant ebikes and chose the Explore for myself. I absolutely loved the bike. Within a few hundred miles the hub drive failed and became a source of frustration, dealing with a china importer. So I decided to bite the bullet and get another Giant bike for the wife. She really likes her LIV AMITI - its perfect cruiser for her.

Since all of my motorbikes sold I have been drawn to the concept of mountain biking. After a ton of research and some very good input from this forum, especially from @PDoz, another avid motorcyclist and Giant advocate, I bought my Trance E+2. I could not be happier with how all this has shaken out.

It turns out Giant and Trance are synonimous with mountain biking, and their ebike is no exception. It's a really great mountain bike, AND a really great ebike.

My dealer did a custom build of a ladies eMTB and the wheelset came up for sale. After some time, the price came down to a 'gotta have' level, so I had a unique opportunity to have a second set of wheels with road tires for the Trance. It became apparent the Explore was becoming redundant, so I sold it to further fund my interest in bikes. My Trace ebike does double-duty.

So while there surely are some really high-end eMTB's out on the market, the Trance is rather kind of a yardstick, something to compare everything else with. And it's got Yamaha power - how can you miss?!?

Court, I thought you did a test ride of the Trance emtb with Sam, out on the Fullerton loop - right in my backyard. But maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, it's a really great offroad bike. And I've done the classic fullerton loop a couple of dozen times now. Just a lot of fun.

Keep up the great work!

63 this year and acting like a kid.

[/QUOTE]

 

[FlatSix911]

Well thanks. We've been having a LOT of fun. And I have really enjoyed the forum, it's an excellent resource.
We have a thread that's been going on for months here, on mountain bikes. We have some outstanding contributors:

eMTB Options For 2024

Bring all your ideas here for mountain bike options for 2020 - now 2023 We had a lot of great discussion on bikes and models in Lenny's 50% off thread but some members complained about the thread content being relevant. So here's a thread to discuss all the options and bike styles, what you...

electricbikereview.com

What started out as a casual interest in making bicycling easier, turned into a quest for the ultimate in ebikes. Meeting some of the early players and seeing the progression of engineering and design has been a great source of entertainment.
Sam was an early adopter and promotor of ebikes at Fullerton Electric Bikes. Meeting him and being able to pick his brain gave me a opportunity to really accelerate the learning curve and quest for learning how this pheonomenon has taken shape over recent years.
I was really sad to see him sell his store and move to the far east. Perhaps one day we'll get to visit again. He was supposed to come back in April for a real send-off, but this pandemic thing has really changed everything, everywhere.
His preferrence for, and eary adoption of Yamaha drive systems really dovetailed with my fifty+ years experience with motorcycles. I've been riding offroad since about 1967. When I learned Yamaha was such a big player it just clicked with me.
With Giant being the largest bike maker in the world, teamed up with Yamaha as one of the premier power sports manufacturing companies in the world, it was like a no-brainer. I have not been let down, not even one iota. LOL

My first foray into ebikes was bafang hub kit to convert wife's bike. Then I discovered Giant ebikes and chose the Explore for myself. I absolutely loved the bike. Within a few hundred miles the hub drive failed and became a source of frustration, dealing with a china importer. So I decided to bite the bullet and get another Giant bike for the wife. She really likes her LIV AMITI - its perfect cruiser for her.

Since all of my motorbikes sold I have been drawn to the concept of mountain biking. After a ton of research and some very good input from this forum, especially from @PDoz, another avid motorcyclist and Giant advocate, I bought my Trance E+2. I could not be happier with how all this has shaken out.

It turns out Giant and Trance are synonimous with mountain biking, and their ebike is no exception. It's a really great mountain bike, AND a really great ebike.

My dealer did a custom build of a ladies eMTB and the wheelset came up for sale. After some time, the price came down to a 'gotta have' level, so I had a unique opportunity to have a second set of wheels with road tires for the Trance. It became apparent the Explore was becoming redundant, so I sold it to further fund my interest in bikes. My Trace ebike does double-duty.

So while there surely are some really high-end eMTB's out on the market, the Trance is rather kind of a yardstick, something to compare everything else with. And it's got Yamaha power - how can you miss?!?

Court, I thought you did a test ride of the Trance emtb with Sam, out on the Fullerton loop - right in my backyard. But maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, it's a really great offroad bike. And I've done the classic fullerton loop a couple of dozen times now. Just a lot of fun.

Keep up the great work!

63 this year and acting like a kid.

Chris, I share your love of motorsports and agree with your assessment of Giant and Yamaha drive EMTBs.

Unfortunately, I recently tore my MCL when I went down hard off-road and have been sidelined for over a week.

So far I have avoided Moto style protective gear, but I'm now suddenly interested in knee and shoulder pads.

Any suggestions regarding the good stuff for off-road that can also be worn for on-road trekking?

 

[Browneye]

Chris, I share your love of motorsports and agree with your assessment of Giant and Yamaha drive EMTBs.

Unfortunately, I recently tore my MCL when I went down hard off-road and have been sidelined for over a week.

So far I have avoided Moto style protective gear, but I'm now suddenly interested in knee and shoulder pads.

Any suggestions regarding the good stuff for off-road that can also be worn for on-road trekking?

Ouch! Get well soon! I've already cracked a couple of ribs and shredded skin.

As per Pdoz advice - the IXS Flow knee pads and G-Form elbow pads, are both low profile, vent well, stay put, and provide excellent protection for the first things that hit the ground if you go down. Mine have already saved my butt a few times. LOL

I have always worn half-finger biking gloves with leather and gel padded palms, but same deal, your hands and knuckles hit the ground first and turn to hamburger. I got some full-finger gloves but the microfiber is so thin I've decided to go with deer-skin leather gloves - on order.

Frankly I think a few spills is inevitable when riding offroad, especially as your skill develops and the speeds increase. Gnarly downhill is simply a recipe for a washout or a dump-over. So helmet and all protective gear is in order, and no open toe shoes.

Going out for a 25 mile loop shortly...

 

[Browneye]

Good article on wearing protective gear here: https://www.singletracks.com/uncate...riders-who-are-thankful-they-wore-protection/

And another if there's interest: https://www.singletracks.com/beginners/suit-up-or-not-my-thoughts-on-body-armor/

 

[FlatSix911]

Ouch! Get well soon! I've already cracked a couple of ribs and shredded skin.

As per Pdoz advice - the IXS Flow knee pads and G-Form elbow pads, are both low profile, vent well, stay put, and provide excellent protection for the first things that hit the ground if you go down. Mine have already saved my butt a few times. LOL

I have always worn half-finger biking gloves with leather and gel-padded palms, but same deal, your hands and knuckles hit the ground first and turn to hamburger. I got some full-finger gloves but the microfiber is so thin I've decided to go with deer-skin leather gloves - on order.

Frankly, I think a few spills is inevitable when riding offroad, especially as your skill develops and the speeds increase. Gnarly downhill is simply a recipe for a washout or a dump-over. So helmet and all protective gear is in order and no open-toe shoes. Going out for a 25-mile loop shortly...

Thanks for the recommendation on the knee and elbow pads... I'll place an order this afternoon.

I have already upgraded my helmet and gloves from road to mtn.

 

[FlatSix911]

Good article on wearing protective gear here: https://www.singletracks.com/uncate...riders-who-are-thankful-they-wore-protection/

And another if there's interest: https://www.singletracks.com/beginners/suit-up-or-not-my-thoughts-on-body-armor/

Perfect... this should be required reading for anyone going off-road.

 

[Gordon71]

What's the benefit of purposely getting a Class 2 instead of Class 3?

The most important purpose for me is that the nice trails within riding distance of my house don't allow class 2 or 3. A couple of seconds to unplug a throttle will change my class 2 into a class 1 so I can ride on those trails.

 

[Browneye]

Class3 bikes are not generally permitted on mixed-use paths. If you need to go that fast you are generally relegated to roads. Which is fine, in and of itself. It's just a distinction.

Mountain bikers are dead set against C3 bikes, any way shape or form.

30mph on a bicycle is REALLY fast. At least for me, and I come from a long line of motorbikes that go over a hundred.

 

[JeffTheEbikeLover]

In my opinion, class 2 bikes are enough. 20 mph actually gets you going already, especially since you aren't necessarily looking to replace your car.

 

[reed scott]

Thanks for all of the great input. We have a winner...I picked up my new Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 last weekend. I also test-rode the Trek Allant+ 7 and the Turbo Vado SL. Also rode an iGo bike for comparison, but it was never really in the running for me. Both Specialized bikes advertise more torque than Trek (90 nm vs. 75 nm). I was tempted by the lighter weight Vado SL, but ultimately went with the most powerful of the lot in the Vado 5.0. In the end, that meant going with a 28 MPH bike over a 20 MPH one. Both dealers I spoke to really downplayed the fact that 28 MPH bikes are not technically legal in NY (I know...self-interest, but they were convincing), and, in retrospect, it's hard to imagine there would ever be an issue with this. Anyway, my first impression of the Vado is -- amazing. Eats up hills, makes biking from my house on the side of a mountain easy and exciting (and still leaves a bit of a workout getting home, even in turbo mode). What really strikes me is how much more terrain around here is accessible to me now, and how a 2 hour bike ride can easily cover 25-30 miles because of the ability (just in eco mode most of the time) to keep your average speed up over the whole course. This was truly my goal -- to use my bike to see more of this beautiful area, so mission accomplished on that score. Now I just need to plan routes that minimize time spent on the 2 major 55 MPH roads that crisscross near here, but that's a fun exercise.

Here, Stick one of these on your motor:

Class 2 250 Watt - Pack of 2

Want to let everyone know what class your ebike is so you can ride the trails, explore the roads, and share what your ebike can do - Bolton Ebikes Style?! This listing is for CLASS 2 250 WATT stickers. Other stickers are available as follows: Class 1 offers 3 sticker options: 250W/20MPH...

boltonebikes.com