Another new TQ motor: hpr40

[Captainslow]

Hi all, thanks for adding me to the forum. I’ve just seen a new Canyon Endurace has been launched in Europe (looks exciting) and wonder if there is any possibility that a new Endurace Onfly will soon be using a similar frame design? I have been trying to order a bike since October with delivery advice changing weekly and currently showing not available to order until July - October. I’ve assumed that the delays are to with component supply issues but now wonder if the new acoustic Endurace frame design may be behind the lengthy availability delays for
the e-bike version. Certainly the new frame looks very appealing (particularly 38mm tyre clearance) and would make the already excellent Endurace Onfly an even more attractive option. Maybe someone on here may have some insight (Yako?).

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Hi all, thanks for adding me to the forum. I’ve just seen a new Canyon Endurace has been launched in Europe (looks exciting) and wonder if there is any possibility that a new Endurace Onfly will soon be using a similar frame design? I have been trying to order a bike since October with delivery advice changing weekly and currently showing not available to order until July - October. I’ve assumed that the delays are to with component supply issues but now wonder if the new acoustic Endurace frame design may be behind the lengthy availability delays for
the e-bike version. Certainly the new frame looks very appealing (particularly 38mm tyre clearance) and would make the already excellent Endurace Onfly an even more attractive option. Maybe someone on here may have some insight (Yako?).

Was wondering this myself after seeing the bombardment of reviews of the analogue Endurace on YT this morning. They must sell far more analogue Endurace bikes then the ON:flys as its harder to find rider reviews and they don't market them half as much. That new Endurace mudguard system that looks like it simply clicks on and off but are full, discreet mudguards, looks very interesting as well.

 

[Captainslow]

Was wondering this myself after seeing the bombardment of reviews of the analogue Endurace on YT this morning. They must sell far more analogue Endurace bikes then the ON:flys as its harder to find rider reviews and they don't market them half as much. That new Endurace mudguard system that looks like it simply clicks on and off but are full, discreet mudguards, looks very interesting as well.

On the Canyon GB website all di2 versions of the Onfly are showing as unavailable in all but XL and 2XL (unless you want the sub10 of course). This seems like it’s a stock run down to me. The reason for this of course is a different matter but I would expect that if the “old” frame is going to remain current there would at least be some stock in various sizes across the range. The other answer may be to do with stock availability and/or updates on the TQ side of things. Guess time will tell…

 

[Rás Cnoic]

On the Canyon GB website all di2 versions of the Onfly are showing as unavailable in all but XL and 2XL (unless you want the sub10 of course). This seems like it’s a stock run down to me. The reason for this of course is a different matter but I would expect that if the “old” frame is going to remain current there would at least be some stock in various sizes across the range. The other answer may be to do with stock availability and/or updates on the TQ side of things. Guess time will tell…

So far I think the TQ40 has appeared on Canyon, Ridley, BMC and Scott bikes. Haven't heard of any other brands yet? Personally I prefer the Canyon just because the implementation would suit my riding conditions; 2x with low gears and 180 rotors plus a comfortable high stack shorter reach geo, suit me and the steep hills near here. The fact they sold out might actually bode well for new models, and maybe a bigger roll out. Hope you find one available and if you do, be sure and report back here with some juicy photos!

 

[Captainslow]

Yes, it seems like a great package and maybe will even be improved if the new frame design makes it across, although the layup and construction of the current e-bike frame differs considerably from the acoustic version so that may be a factor. Honestly I would be happy with either as a 67 year old roadie who would just like a bit of help against the Scottish headwinds and longer hills. I still very much enjoy the effort, but I think I will ride more with the extra reassurance another 200 watts can bring.

 

[apctjb]

Canyon says the OnFly will be available in the US by summer. I had hoped they would roll it out at Sea Otter , but if they are sold out in Europe then doubt we will see them anytime soon this side of the pond.

 

[Captainslow]

Canyon says the OnFly will be available in the US by summer. I had hoped they would roll it out at Sea Otter , but if they are sold out in Europe then doubt we will see them anytime soon this side of the pond.

Not sure if they are “sold out” in Europe, it would seem from the website that stock has been very limited or non existent since last winter. There don't seem to be too many owners out there. It sounds like the US roll out date matches when Canyon is predicting stock will be available in Europe so it may be that a possible new manufacturing cycle is planned for then. Who know if this will be with the new frame or not?

 

[apctjb]

It sounds like the US roll out date matches when Canyon is predicting stock will be available in Europe so it may be that a possible new manufacturing cycle is planned for then. Who know if this will be with the new frame or not?

As I am new to ebikes and there were not TQ40 choices available in US at the time I purchased a BMC Amp with the TQ50. What I have discovered so far is TQ50 is more motor than I need in terms of assist, but I am happy to have the larger 350whr battery. I have tuned the motor to max 35W assist in Eco Mode and 60W in Medium and that is plenty of assist to provide the '10 years younger" ride feeling without feeling like I am motoring along. But even at those low power settings I doubt I could get more than 70 miles and 4000 ft of climbing on a fully charged battery. People told me not to worry about the extra weight of the TQ50 equipped bike and they were right. Once riding the weight disappears and on flat terrain I turn off the assist and it feels just like my 15lb acoustic bike.

 

[Captainslow]

Good to hear your positive experiences with TQ. The range of the smaller battery is my only concern, but hoping like others that the lack of overall weight and motor drag will make up for that. The TQ range extender is expensive!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Good to hear your positive experiences with TQ. The range of the smaller battery is my only concern, but hoping like others that the lack of overall weight and motor drag will make up for that. The TQ range extender is expensive!

without testing it or failing that opportunity, seeing somebody on YT give it a rigorous review, it's hard to know about range and what it rides like unassisted. The battery is 290w? or maybe 250 but the bike is on paper so light then this might be enough. For comparison I've ridden a Vado SL extensively last number of years and that has 35nm, 320w battery but weighs a lot more (36-38lbs) My simple rule of thumb riding it is if I don't feel the weight on flats & tailwinds then I don't use assist, saving for hills & headwinds. With a lighter bike I imagine the ride feel will be such that I'll keep assist off for longer, on rolling hills that aren't steep for example. That's why I'm interested in the TQ40.

Though of course the one that will really fulfil this is the Sub 10 (under 10kg/21lbs) which is just a bit pricey but would love to try it, bonkers light! The Canyon base level is more like 11.5kg/25lbs region in weight I think. Still over 10lbs lighter than my Vado SL & worth testing, being a similar weight to my steel frame analogue bike which although heavy is a real joy to ride & very comfy.

 

[Captainslow]

Yako rides again has a really good set of YT reviews of the Endurace Onfly and he seems to agree with you that the assist is not needed much and when it is it seems more than adequate. I have not had any experience with a road e-bike but cannot shake off 15 odd years of trying to make my bikes as light as possible. On paper I think I can get the CF8 down to about 10.5 kg23lbs principally by replacing the wheel set & tyre combo with my 1200g Hunt carbons + GP5000 30mm and a saddle swap for a specialised 3d printed job. This probably won’t make any discernible difference on the road but it might in my head. Of course I could reduce the “system weight” considerably just by rationing my beers!

 

[apctjb]

I have not had any experience with a road e-bike but cannot shake off 15 odd years of trying to make my bikes as light as possible.

Exactly the same for me but now that I have a 28lb E-Bike I am rethinking the weight thing. Only takes ~10W of assist to negate 5lbs for a heavier bike (TQ40 vs TQ50 with bigger battery). Dial up the assist slightly and the weight disappears, like magic.

 

[apctjb]

replacing the wheel set & tyre combo with my 1200g Hunt carbons + GP5000 30mm and a saddle swap for a specialised 3d printed job.

That said I also bought 1200g wheelset and 3d printed saddle...Old habits die hard..

 

[Captainslow]

That said I also bought 1200g wheelset and 3d printed saddle...Old habits die hard..

The Hunt 40/45 Aerodynamicist wheel set is the fastest I’ve had. In particular they seem to hold the speed really well once up around 15mph so I’m hoping that breaking through the assist and holding +15.5 mph speeds on the flats should be as achievable as with my current 7.5kg Cannondale Synapse.

 

[stompandgo]

A 45mm deep section wheelset buys you at most 4-5 watts under 20mph. If there's a tail crosswind, it can push the bike from behind, which can help. The real benefits come at racing speeds or while descending.

Riding my bike with fenders and a rack, aero gains from wheels are dwarfed. I went with carbon wheels for several reasons. Carbon wheels increase ride comfort. I wanted a wider section rim which increases ride comfort with the proper sized tires. Finally, I went with the RX880's because I wanted the direct engagement freehub and a Microspline body. 32mm of depth isn't helping the aero much, but neither would increasing to 45mm.

To save weight, I ride a saddle with titanium wheels, gravel tires that are a lot lighter than city bike tires, titanium spindle pedals, TPU tubes, a carbon seatpost, and titanium hardware where I can. Just because.

 

[apctjb]

Had my BMC for a couple weeks and been playing around with motor settings. What seems to be working for my riding style and location follows. At these settings I can get +60miles of range with 3000-4000ft of climbing. Also suggest that TQ40 would be plenty for my type of riding. Curious to hear what others are using...

Mode	Power Cap	Support %	Pedal Response	Rationale
Eco	30 W	30%	Low	Offset bike weight/tire penalty while preserving analog feel and range
Mid	60 W	60%	Low / Medium	“10 years younger” mode
High	150 W	100%	Medium	Short-term boost for steep climbs, wind, or fatigue

 

[Blackvipergts]

Thank for sharing these info .At present I ride a Cervelo with FazuaRide60, 95% only Breeze [1]on gradient from 3% till 12/13%, 5% on River[2] from 12%-13% till 20%,no assistance below 3%.The Eco mode is set at 90watt motor for 110watt rider and with this configuration I can ride for 100km[ ab60 mls] and 2000mt[ 6000 ft] elevation gain.[ battery 430watt]
As I'm considering to buy a Tq40bike I was scared about Your numbers as the assistance setup is really low but also the elevation gain seems not much.
Could You kindly explain more in details how do you use the assistance or even better which is your average watt/feet consumption. FYI I'm 72yo,1.78mt tall× 77kg , watt/mt =0,16
about 10.000km [6200 mls] x year,leaving in the Alps region in Italy close to the Swiss border.Pls note in EU the e-bike are anyhow limited to 25km/h max.
Thanks very much and congratulations for Your Bmc TeamMachine Amp

 

[apctjb]

Could You kindly explain more in details how do you use the assistance or even better which is your average watt/feet consumption.

I am not familiar with Fazua Ride 60, but from you description it sounds like it has different settings and how it manages assist. On my last ride I watched the power meter and most of the time I was putting in 150W, the motor contributed 0W-10% of the time, 30W-50% of the time, 60W-30% of the time, and 150W-10% of the time. 42miles, 3500 elevation gain and the battery had ~55% charge remaining when I got home. I was riding with my wife who has the same BMC as me an her battery had 72% charge remaining. She is lighter and stronger than me so road most of the ride in eco-30W assist.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I am not familiar with Fazua Ride 60, but from you description it sounds like it has different settings and how it manages assist. On my last ride I watched the power meter and most of the time I was putting in 150W, the motor contributed 0W-10% of the time, 30W-50% of the time, 60W-30% of the time, and 150W-10% of the time. 42miles, 3500 elevation gain and the battery had ~55% charge remaining when I got home. I was riding with my wife who has the same BMC as me an her battery had 72% charge remaining. She is lighter and stronger than me so road most of the ride in eco-30W assist.

Sadly Porsche the owners of Fazua have just closed down the company laying off the entire staff it seems having bought Fazua a couple of years ago.

Porsche shuts down e-bike motor brand Fazua as car brand’s e-bike subsidiary closed and 500 jobs cut | electric bike reviews, buying advice and news - ebiketips

Porsche has revealed that it is shutting down its e-bike subsidiary Porsche eBike Performance GmbH, a move that will also see e-bike motor brand Fazua closed.The German sports car brand launched its e-bike subsidiary in 2022, the same year it acquired Fazua, in a bid to develop and market...

road.cc

 

[Blackvipergts]

I am not familiar with Fazua Ride 60, but from you description it sounds like it has different settings and how it manages assist. On my last ride I watched the power meter and most of the time I was putting in 150W, the motor contributed 0W-10% of the time, 30W-50% of the time, 60W-30% of the time, and 150W-10% of the time. 42miles, 3500 elevation gain and the battery had ~55% charge remaining when I got home. I was riding with my wife who has the same BMC as me an her battery had 72% charge remaining. She is lighter and stronger than me so road most of the ride in eco-30W assist.

Thank a lot .It's confirming my assumption / estimation fpr the 290w battery .Unfortunately for the time being is impossible here to find a test bike [ Scott/Bmc/Ridley] so far we can only simulate and/or extrapolate data