Gravel Vs. Trail Bikes

Super light gravel bikes are very quick and if the terrain is too much, just throw it over your shoulder and walk
Which reminds me of a man met on the Sudovia Gravel 2025 race route. It was the most difficult ride and race I've ever experienced. Even if it was mid-May, the temperature was down to 3 C, it rained all the time, and it was windy. Premium gravel roads turned into jelly, and dirt roads became deep mud. Necessary to mention, Sudovia is a very hilly region: just very steep short hills and steep descents (up to 14% grade). I was about to withdraw from the race and return on asphalt but then thought it would be still a several hours' ride in the cold, rain and wind anyway so why not finish the race properly?

As I was riding a countryside road, I spotted a man running his bike. It was like he walked his bike but he was running with his bike along him instead! I slowed down and talked to the man. Turned out, he was Lithuanian, so we spoke in English. Turned out his drivetrain got damaged beyond the field repair. I promised him I would give a phone call for help. Unfortunately, there was no GSM coverage in the area, and when I eventually connected to the organisers they told me they were unable to help.

Plucky Ernestas run for at least 12 km (or maybe even much more). Strangely enough, he was 19th male overall for the 3-day stage race! What an example!

Now fancy if he could finish the race if his bike were heavy :)

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Call my looks as you please but this picture says something of the conditions (I was prepared!)

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My competitor in e-Sprint didn't make it!

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That climb was at least on asphalt.

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"Sudovian Mountains".

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One of the starting groups. My brother (left) rode a flat handlebar gravel bike and took a good place. The man on an MTB was a local, yet he didn't finish the race!
 
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I do not know much about the technical specifications of gravel bikes for racing or competition. My only experience is the Canyon Grizl: ON used for purely recreational purposes on road surfaces, bad pavement with lots of cracks, severely eroded asphalt that is like 'gravel' in that there is a lot of pebbly broken road with lots of sand, segments of easy to moderate singletrack, and even short, very easy rock gardens. Here's what a typical section of road looks like-- and the photo tends to minimize how deep these potholes and cracks are. They are nasty:

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For this terrain, it's probably the best solution all around. There is one trail in my neighborhood that I have not tried-- I *might* try it on the gravel bike if I first assessed it on the eMTB and the conditions were not too extreme. But one key factor: My feet, and the bottom of the bike, is much closer to the ground than on either the eMTB or the enduro-style Marin TSDZ2B build, which was between an enduro eMTB and a gravel bike. I do have light 'toe strikes' on the Grizl if I am careless and pedal through maximum lean when cornering. Therefore, I would worry about one or two drops on my 'moderate' singletrack route in the neighborhood-- again, the one local trail I haven't tried yet.

That said, there is one ridiculous spot in one of my routes where the pavement dips briefly and abruptly from about 12% to 20%, and I seem to have plenty of clearance for it. I actually walked the bike over it first to make sure it could make it, and had no problem. It's no harder or more dangerous on the gravel bike than on the eMTB or enduro.

The pleasant surprise is how much easier the flared drop bars are on my hands given the bad osteoarthritis in my metacarpals and carpals, the base of my thumbs and everything connected to it. I am almost always on the drops, though more recently, I've been moving to the tops of the bars during climbs. (I have to remind myself to do this, it doesn't come naturally.) It is less upright than either the eMTB (obviously) or the enduro (which had back-swept bars), though I do notice my triceps get a much better workout on the GRIZL, which is fine. No back strain that I have noticed.

I am glad Stompandgo mentioned the suspension, there are now a handful of electric gravel bikes with suspension (the BMC URS amp LT Two, Specialized Turbo Creo, the Canyon Grizl ON, Topstone Neo Carbon lefty). For the 90% of the terrain I ride, I fine the Grizl no less capable or less comfortable than the eMTB except: There can be rare segments of moderately bumpy road that just happen to be at the wrong spacing / resonant frequency for the frame and suspension (40mm, much less than either of the other bikes) at speed. There are just one or two spots like this on Mt. Hollywood Drive and Vista Valle, no longer than 50 or 100 feet, and they are hard to see when you are hauling ass. (Note the photo and the long shadows that can hide potholes!) That's the only place where I feel that less travel in the front suspension, and seatpost suspension as opposed to rear suspension, hurts performance just a bit, though I think it's mostly having less suspension in front, and something about the carbon frame, which theoretically provides some suspension of its own in the vast majority of situations-- just not this one. It's just different; maybe riding technique will eventually overcome this.

That said, in many situations, the Grizl has better traction than the enduro-- for example, applying hard pedaling and lots of power at the end of a sharp corner on bad road. For whatever reason, the back end does not break away as quickly as it did on the Marin enduro. I don't know why; the tires are much thinner, and despite what lots of folks say about the TSDZ2B, the Bosch SX feels like it delivers more power and has more grunt.

I haven't owned the Grizl a year yet, but even on good pavement, I've noticed that on descents, the speed where I start to really feel like the bike would be hard to control avoiding a dog or encountering unexpected / hidden bad road seems to be about 38 MPH. I've had the eMTB up to 43 MPH, but that was on slightly better road. Some of this may be getting used to the handling, particularly having the confidence to not grip the bars quite so tightly.
 
To @Catalyzt 's point, suspension on gravel bikes is generally geared towards compliance and to help with smaller, high frequency bumps/holes. The compliance allows you to go faster and further over poor surfaces. Gravel bikes aren't rated for jumps or drops.

A trail bike, and I think All Mountain is the current trending term, has a frame and suspension that are both rated for jumps and drops - so big hits rather than bumps and vibration.

@6zfshdb I would guess your Pedego is more closely aligned to a trekking bike. Basically hard tail mtb geometry, with enough suspension to handle easy trails but not rated for jumps. Usually geared towards comfort and cargo capacity so it works in a wide range of situations even if it is probably never the most efficient style for either road or trail.
 
Oh yeah. The universal bike frame. . Good luck with that. 😁

Yeah I gotta check the specs and do some number crunching.

I need steerer tube dimensions as well as the BB and rear dropout spacing.

I'm pretty sure I'll need a new rear wheel with boost spacing to fit the frame, but the wheel won't have a motor, so there's lots of choices.

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Now I gotta figger out what all this stuff means??

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"MS" Mud and Snow ??


I need a Heavy-Duty Wheel that can keep up with my Drift Maniac Freewheel so I can Burn Rubber as well as Drift around corners. 😁

Like this guy,..



What a dumb-ass with his stupid PAS sensor.

He needs an always active throttle!!
 
. You can show up to a road race with a 3 speed, too. Good luck with that. 😁

That's Perfect!!👌👍

Just like this Kick-Ass Hot Rod I had in 1976,..
(I had a beige/gold one)

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My current hub-drive motors are single speed.
A 3-Speed IGH would be more than enough for a powerful mid-drive motor.


And Who Says you can't pedal a bicycle fitted with a motorcycle seat and a sissy bar ???

If I didn't pedal when I was 12 yrs old, I wouldn'ta got no where !!

Just don't attach your freinds tow rope to the top of your sissy bar, unless you're going in a straight line and need some help doing wheelies.
 
To @Catalyzt 's point, suspension on gravel bikes is generally geared towards compliance and to help with smaller, high frequency bumps/holes. The compliance allows you to go faster and further over poor surfaces. Gravel bikes aren't rated for jumps or drops.
Correctly. There are other solutions for compliance, such as Redshift ShockStop suspension stem, which can be installed on any rigid bike (unless it is the integrated cockpit).
However, most gravel cyclists rely on properly lowly inflated tyres. A good gravel tyre is supple, and can be inflated lowly, especially in the tubeless setup. A good tyre at a properly low pressure can do miracles in the term of the ride speed and comfort.

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This unassuming man (Radek Gołębiewski) won a 1104 km (686 mi) gravel race SOLO in 47 h 51 min 33 s. He needed no suspension at all. It is his legs, endurance, and riding technique.

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Radek rides a Factor gravel bike. Factor is an originally British brand, now owned by an American, with the manufacture in Taiwan.
 
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To @Catalyzt 's point,

A trail bike, has a frame and suspension that are both rated for jumps and drops - so big hits rather than bumps and vibration.
What are the differences and how are bikes equipped for each type of surface? Pictures welcome.

My ebike is prepared for Big Hits with it's 160mm of fork travel but I adjusted the rebounds (front and rear) all the way down to 🐢 so it's good for bumps and vibrations as well,..

Here's some pictures of some typical road hazards I've encountered.

These are are more of a bump or vibration,..

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Other things start hitting harder,..

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I would have hit this thing on purpose if I didn't have to chase it down off-road.
Fricken Teenage Mutant Ninja Wannabe, Turkey !!!
Thinks he's all Wild and stuff 😜

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And these things hit the hardest but they'll hit you first and keep on hitting. 😁


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Oh yeah. The universal bike frame. Good luck with that. 😁
Yeah I gotta check the specs and do some number crunching.

It's looking pretty good so far.

My forks will fit with a big stack of spacers and an adjustable stem.

My rear shock is about ½" too short though, 😔 😟 and I don't like the upgraded pivot screws.
My current frame has ball bearing pivots, not bushings.

But everything is looking good, from the 73mm BB that will fit my 100mm BB motor with the appropriate spacers.
The brakes will fit. The tires and wheels will fit, once I buy a new Boost spaced rear wheel.

My big fat suspension seatpost and seat will fit.

I'm good to go.

I just got buy more stuff.

It's too late to message to 🎅 though.

I talked to Mrs 🤶 and she said her husband forgot his phone again, and Rudolph is Fukin Wasted and also got into the Coke again this year.

He's well lit, but he's wobbling all over the Fukin Sky and bouncing off the 🌙 🌔.


😁
 

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What are the differences and how are bikes equipped for each type of surface? Pictures welcome.

I'm basically a trail rider who avoids roads as much as possible. The trails I ride here in the east have mostly mixed surfaces, including pavement, packed limestone & decomposed granite, dirt, grass, sand and some loose gravel. Slopes range from zero to 15 degrees. Perhaps it's the part of the country where I ride, but I've never come across a mostly gravel riding environment. The closest would be beaches with varying sizes of stone mixed with sand. Are there places across the country that cater specifically to gravel bikes?

Over the years, I've equipped my bikes to handle these varying surfaces by adding semi knobby tires, front suspension forks, anti vibration handlebar shocks, a quality suspension seatpost, wide range 10T-52T 11 speed cassette and a comfortable saddle. I would dearly love to have full rear suspension, which most gravel bikes I've seen have, but haven't found a bike thus equipped that fits my upright riding style.

What am I missing? Just what is a gravel bike and how are they equipped?
And there is a different kind'a of trails, the types of what is described by 6zfshdb and then there is game trails, cow/horse trails and just natural made trails, creek bottoms etc.
When I was researching what bike to get, for my 1st E bike, trail riding meant tires 2> 4" wide, with 3" being an all round compromise, that would work in just about any conditions except the very soft loose stuff.

I have the 3" wide 26" tires Juggs 4 Ultra and for me, it is a joy to ride just about everywhere, except for the buzzing knobbys on hard surfaces.
The Wart Hogs MD 750, with the 4.8" 26" tires, is used riding the soft DG/Sand, dry creek bottoms, and does very well, IMHO.

With over 3800+ miles on OEM tires, I am looking for new shoes for the Wart Hog, I just can't find what I want, with these being the best I have found so far.
And tires do make a difference...
ymmv
 
Gravel/Adventure bikes have a longer wheelbase than road bikes. The fork kicks out much more and you can put three or four fingers between the seat tube at the bottom bracket and the rear wheel. Everything is more robust on the frame and they have road bike shift indexing with mountain bike range. I have recently made four electric assist using the DM02 motor rated at 500 watts nominal with a peak of 864. One had an unusual bar that mixes the advantages of drop with flat with many hand positions without stooping. Three were handmade frames out of Reynolds 631 in Britain. With 50 tires the become 29'ers. I would forgo suspension for simplicity, and connection to the surface. These are do it all bikes.

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Fat bikes had a shelf life of 9 months back in 2018. But somehow the idea got picked up by cheep online, DTC, only brands with hub-drives. They are not for cyclists. Fat and mountain are incompatible with no Ven overlap except for those who do not know and have never been on a mountain. Then they are conflated and confounded.
 
In 2022 I made a Como eater out of a Roll. It is a casual commuter bike with a coffee holder. This came up because the prospective new owner contacted me today after the original owner posted it for sale. The original idea was to cut commute times to 1/3rd by using it on the train for the last mile problem and saving $50 per week in gas. Unlike gravel commuter bikes are practical transportation, not weekend toys. 750 W on the torque sensor mid-drive. And it smokes Vados and Comos without looking electric all day and is open source with the right to repair. This is what good electric bikes look like and how the best feel.

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I like the look of these bikes, but I have to wonder if the stealth of the bottle batteries is worth the trade off of lower range. It does work for last mile while commuting by train, but the bike is legal to ride, so why not get a shark or jumbo shark battery and enjoy the extra range for weekend rides?
 
My range is at least 100 km with fully charged batteries, riding 32 kph, into 40 kph headwinds, without ever pedaling.


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I never speed for fear of $5000 in fines and having my ebike confiscated.


EDIT: I just added a second motor with 120nm of torque, so I'm predicting a 50 km range with a 50 kph headwind.
But wind resistance is a squared or even cubed relationship 🤔 🙄 😐

I'll just charge it up, hammer the throttles and see what happens.
 

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I like the look of these bikes, but I have to wonder if the stealth of the bottle batteries is worth the trade off of lower range. It does work for last mile while commuting by train, but the bike is legal to ride, so why not get a shark or jumbo shark battery and enjoy the extra range for weekend rides?
It does 2.5 hours. Who really wants to sit on a bike saddle longer than a feature film? A larger one is possible, or a second smaller one to swap from the pannier for a 190 K ride. Getting to work or around town is normally less than three miles each way dressed for your practical daily destination not a sporting event, or a weekend dentist spandex clown.

The batteries are special. They are made to my specifications by the boutique division of the factory that makes them for the top three. No plastic.
 
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