Riders and lawmakers must understand the actual regulations and intent....

Theres a wack-a-mole effect with regulation. When something becomes a perceived problem among the public, it becomes politically expedient to be seen to be doing something about it. Ebikes have absolutely become a perceived problem. Granted, its mostly an emoto-pretending-to-be-an-ebike problem, but the ebike community largely has itself to blame for not really doing much to draw a line between the two until it became obvious that emotos were going to cause a backlash that caused issues for everyone. And legislators aren't exactly well known for technical nuance or narrowly scoped laws. So you get a general crackdown and some idiotic laws like the NJ one.

The defense against stupid legislation is either a) sheer size, to where so many people participate that no elected official really wants to piss the group off (like cars), or b) effective advocacy to increase the political power of a small group (like traditional cycling advocacy). Ebikers don't have the size where its a political issue to stomp on us in a hamfisted way, and our advocacy is largely reliant on traditional cycling advocacy which is, lets say, fickle.
 
Damn! You’d think legislators are ignorant of almost everything (in this case bicycles and e-bikes), afraid of their more extreme or at least activist constituents and otherwise incapable of producing actually useful laws or regulations.
Regulating ebikes is challenging because you have brands promoting e-motos that have functional pedals as ebikes. This is highly risky because if someone riding something that is not a compliant ebike hits and harms a pedestrian they are on an illegal vehicle that can create huge liabilities. I don't understand why the companies doing this are not at risk themselves but they do have claims to check local laws which is their way of skirting responsibility. We need micro-mobility solutions so I hope legislators take their job seriously. I for one believe that HR727 was an acceptable regulation defining what is a compliant "low speed electric bicycle" that could be sold and ridden as a bike in all 50 states. The real issues began when the states started adopting the 3-class legislation which in some cases was in conflict with HR727 and should have been preempted by the CPSC.
 
Heres a vid I posted today, go to the last minute and youll see me descend at 30mph into a little village.
It looks insanely fast to be careering into it, but its the speed limit.

What a killer of a trail, not even a trail really, just a cross country hack. I'm glad it was you and not me C-ride, I'd have turned back at the first sign of trouble and there'd be no cool video. I saved it out too, as much for the scenic effects as the ride. I can't believe those narrow lanes, we have narrow roads here too but there is always a dirt or grassy verge to allow cars to pass, none of that rock wall business. Must be a Roman Empire influence 😁
 
Regulating ebikes is challenging because you have brands promoting e-motos that have functional pedals as ebikes. This is highly risky because if someone riding something that is not a compliant ebike hits and harms a pedestrian they are on an illegal vehicle that can create huge liabilities. I don't understand why the companies doing this are not at risk themselves but they do have claims to check local laws which is their way of skirting responsibility. We need micro-mobility solutions so I hope legislators take their job seriously. I for one believe that HR727 was an acceptable regulation defining what is a compliant "low speed electric bicycle" that could be sold and ridden as a bike in all 50 states. The real issues began when the states started adopting the 3-class legislation which in some cases was in conflict with HR727 and should have been preempted by the CPSC.
Ken, I agree with you to a great extent. I've been researching e-bike legislation and watching PeopleForBikes for quite some time now and to be honest, you're the only one I have found online with views similar to mine. 3 class legislation is unconstitutional becasue it is more stirngent than federal law. I'm a paralegal. I'm no engineer or math expert, but I did have an electrical engineer for a stepfather, and all the math I need for this problem I had by the ninth grade. People get very confused because of the safety nexus. Conduct based state traffic laws and product safety laws at the federal level both concern safety. People hear safety in both debates and think the state and feds are equally in the business of regulating "safety" in general. I'd like to share information with you but would like to keep it hushed for now. You know who is watching. Is there a way to send a private message here? Here's a couple of tables that help make things easier to grasp.
 

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I would like to work with EBR to create an informational video that presents TRUE information on the current ebike regulations - HR727 says a motor rating must be less than 750W so if the motor rating on some ebikes claims to be 750W would be not compliant because "less than" does not allow a mathematical claim at 750W. It's even worse because a motor rating has nothing to do with peak drive system power - a nominal motor rating of 500W would like be a motor that could run at 2000W for a short duration (visit www.ebikes.ca to get a full technical explanation on this). Sorry but this is just one example of how ignorant the masses are on this subject. Sorry to preach but that this point some one needs to detail all this.
I'd like to do a video about this, too. This is about a nexus between law and electrical engineering. I'm a paralegal, you're an engineer. Please allow me to draw your attention to soemthing you have overlooked. The federal regulation is not in terms of nominal or continuous watts. It is specifically tied to 1 h.p., and that's a measure of mechanical power. Discussions of motor power in terms of continuous watts is misdirection. Caused by PeopleForBikes and their vague WHATS? legislation that does not deifne what sort of watts. The enitre 3 class system is not just unconstitutional under federal preemption since states have no poower to redefine an e-bike, it's also void for vagueness. Check this out:

Meet Matt Moore, Attorney, PeopleForBikes, Public Face

Here’s an idea of what PeopleForBikes calls clarity. Only now in 2026, it appears, does PFB venture forth to explain their vagueish thingy "less than 750 watts”

See:
E-Bikes vs. E-Motos: Legal Distinctions, Legislative Strategies, and Regulatory Actions” (You’ll want to keep this one up for later.)

Matt Moore, in-house counsel, PeopleForBikes (during Q&A session), @51:00: “PeopleForBikes’ position is that 750 watts means continuous rated power. Uh that's how motor power, useful motor power is is measured. Uh, the federal definition is silent on that.”

Well, one out of three ain’t bad. I suppose their position is probably their position.

He has received the question in the video precisely because no-one in 45 states knows what type of watts that means, because the model legislation did not define it. He is incorrect on both counts, and it makes no sense at all why PFB would “fix” a so-called (federal) vague law by being yet more vague in state law. This is not how one solves a patchwork; it is how you create it. And it’s a patchwork of product definitions.

Matt Moore of PeopleForBikes told the public that because the federal government did not adequately define what “less than 750 watts” means (a false claim) that PFB has decided their own vague law must mean continuous watts, because that’s the measure of “useful power.” Neither is true. Useful power at the shaft is mechanical, not continuous, and it is clearly pegged as mechanical by specifying “(1 h.p.)” and the federal law is not very vague at all, although it does seem to leave a little wiggle room of 3 mechanical watts as to exactly how many watts. That is, 1 horsepower is ~746 mechanical watts, while 749 mechanical watts is “less than” 750.
Matt Moore is an attorney. A really incompetent attorney, if he thinks he is telling the truth in good faith. Now he tells us, only after PFB hit the end of the road in the state legislatures with their model language 3 class system laws, that PFB has decided that means continuous, after the fact. These self-appointed experts didn’t know what their own “clarifying” law meant, so they had to “take a position” on the issue.
 
I'm not going to try to explain the entire intent of HR727 when it comes to specifications besides saying it does not define a max motor power of less than 750W (it's a motor rating and to understand that people need to do a bit of technical research), does not different a pedalec or throttle assist system because the power below 20mph is not important but the power is actually limited above 20mph to what motor power results in 20mph on a level surface with a 170lb rider (this is PhD intelligent but seems nebulous - the NHTSA did not want to release legal purview if the motor only resulted in speeds over 20mph so it's NOT a cut-off as almost everyone in the industry perceives - sadly most countries do have an assist speed limit).
Correct, this is no speed limit. Many of us recall how the feds lacked authority to set a national 55 m.p.h. speed limit and had to make it conditional to receiving highway funds, a bribe. The feds CAN'T set a speed limit. This is an engineering formula, and it's purpose is to govern power to weight ratio included with motor power. It is intended to keep the focus off the motor alone and gauge how a whole system works together. It stops someone taking a motor from a compliant adult sized bike and strapping it to an undersized preschooler's trainer, losing forty pounds thereby, and coming up with an "overpowered" bike. Legislative history and Currie's testimony prove this. it is important to understand that CPSC has no bright line rule and evaluate each e-bike on a case-by-case basis, which means that the states can't have a bright line rule, either, when it comes to what the definition of an e-bike is. And they don't need to know anything more than the federal definition "an e-bike is a consumer product the same as a bicycle" to do their job. Their job is to govern user conduct, exactly as you keep saying. Because they have to classify the product the same in order to avoid an unfair and deceptive impact on the free market, the state's choices are narrow: Set the same rules of the road for both bikes and e-bikes and allow them access to the public roads, or deny them access to the roads equally. It's that simple.

The first mistake most people make in analysis is in allowing the category of consumer product to be split and then believing that each can be governed and defined at the state level separately and more stringently. The whole point of "HR 727" or 15 U.S.C. § 2085(b) is to make sure that bikes and e-bikes are treated the same as a product. If state law doesn't make the product "bicycle" illegal for the road, it can't make an "e-bike" illegal for the road by redefining the product.

2nd analytical mistake: A state can only generally regulate a consumer product definition when the federal government has not preempted it, and especially when the feds have ignored it, which you mention time and again and no-one comprehends becasue they are getting their legal understanding from PFB and not legitimate legal analysis (and the friendly lawyer going over the 3 class system in a YouTube video is, too).

3rd analytical mistake: HR 727 is a floor, not a ceiling, when it comes to the state's limited power under preemption. A state is not compliant with a preempted federal regulation by viewing the regulation as a ceiling and setting their own regulation a little below that "ceiling," i.e., more stringent, safer. A product can be state compliant but not necessarily federally compliant, and that can occur when the state is less stringent. That is the case for some states reasoning a 1000 watt continuous power motor is an e-bike's motor. 1000 watts allows an efficiency variable sufficient to generate 1 h.p. at the shaft. Is my particular 1000 continuous watt e-bike compliant? For a technical bright line, CPSC has to do a case-by-case analysis. Generally, it is ridiculous to get bent out of shape over a few continuous watts because it is a variable and it can even vary within the exact same make and model of motor with identical continuous watt rating. It might not be perfectly compliant with federal law, but the state certainly is not being more stringent and therefore their law is constitutional under preemption. That is risky for the manufacturer and retailer. Arguing that the state needs to have a "brightline clarity" of "x" continuous watts is a null argument, and none is necessary if the state keeps to regulating conduct with general, not highly specific and technical product categories. The red flag for this mistake is when you have to question whether a vehicle is in fact an e-bike. If it's not very obvious that it's not, at best it is a question for the CPSC to handle in commerce.

I keep hearing the argument here that riders are scared that messing with the 3 class system will bring "worse" regulation, not that they like the 3 class system. But 3 class is not, legally speaking, a law at all; it is unconstitutional. The problem is in the fact that the public and enforcement authorities have been led to believe it is a law. It's certainly on the books. But it's null under preemption.

BTW, I know it is ingrained in memory, but HR 727 is a poor way to refer to 15 U.S.C. § 2085(b) more than twenty-four years after it's passage. There's a lot of "HR 727s" out there, but only one 15 U.S.C. § 2085(b). Help the reader every way you can with easy to access lynchpin information.

Simple solution: States govern use and not products. Only if an e-bike is prima facie not an e-bike because it is clearly beyond the federal definition in terms of mechanical power, i.e., the motor is stamped something like "1.5 shaft h.p." is registration etc. required as a motor vehicle or moped or motorized bike, whatever category your state has. Ticket speeding. When a bike's compliance with federal law is questionable due to variables, let the CPSC know. That's how the law is supposed to be working. Whether the CPSC is keeping up with the job is another story, and not an issue that will be solved by changes in legal definitions of the product. If changing state laws about ebike definitions SEEMS to work and help clarify things, that is because you are not seeing the regulatory capture and deceptive manipulation of the marketplace. It only seems that way because now the colluding corporations have firm control and THEY have clarified that only their products are on the table for discussion. 15 U.S.C. § 2085(b) is nearly the only thing standing in their way of completely sealing the illusion.

(this was editied for clarity after Jabberwocky and RunFortheHills replied, but the portions quoted by Jabberwocky remain the same.)
 
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But 3 class is not, legally speaking, a law at all; it is unconstitutional. The problem is in the fact that the public and enforcement authorities have been led to believe it is a law. It's certainly on the books. But it's null under preemption.

But what if its tried in a court with gold fringe on the flag?
 
But what if its tried in a court with gold fringe on the flag?
What if you were to consider the doctrine of preemption seriously? Do you do anything other than mock people who understand the concepts involved, while complaining other people shouldn't be interested because you're not; but then you keep showing interest in the topic. For years you've been doing this.
 
What if you were to consider the doctrine of preemption seriously? Do you do anything other than mock people who understand the concepts involved, while complaining other people shouldn't be interested because you're not; but then you keep showing interest in the topic. For years you've been doing this.
Do you have the time and money/resources to litigate your ideas? There are no organizations out there funded by and lobbying for the average ebike owner. We have to work within the system that has been created.
 
Do you have the time and money/resources to litigate your ideas? There are no organizations out there funded by and lobbying for the average ebike owner. We have to work within the system that has been created.
I agree to a great extent. However, litigation at the consumer level is not the only possible course of action. We can educate our congresspeople to stop the SafeSpeeds act. We can develop better legislative strategies than have been used to approach our legislators with as individuals. I'm working on something I'd like to keep on the hush for now. Only a small number of us could establish our own grass roots non-profit for very little money. People like Ken and I could run circles around the PFB "experts." He wants to make a video about it, so do I. ALMOST certainly there is an antitrust problem when federal green incentive funds are funneled only to 3 class manufacturers and retailers, so various attorneys general could be involved and THEY are funded by the consumer and DO advocate for the consumer. I'm working on something right now I'm not exactly ready to put forth yet; the strategy cannot be revealed. But there is a workaround to the 3 class system for the disabled and obese. As applied, the 3 class system probably violates the Americans With Disabilities Act, too. I hope to complete my research in a couple of days and I will share the package. All of these ideas work within the system that has been created. They just don't work within the 3 class system that's been created.
 
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Do you have the time and money/resources to litigate your ideas? There are no organizations out there funded by and lobbying for the average ebike owner. We have to work within the system that has been created.
I thought I'd leave some more tips on how to be a more effective advocate as a citizen in approaching a legislator. Don't just be a citizen complaining about or demanding a law to their representatives. Research all of your state's legislators and find the ones whose interests align most with yours. You want to be able to speak to them as a peer in understanding of issues they may have a better technical understanding of. Want to explain technical e-bike stuff the world is confused about? Find the one who is an electrical engineer. Any kind of engineer, really, will understand the formulas and can do the math. It's not really that hard. And perhaps more important, find the one on the right commitee the legislation will come before. Hammer hard to them the matter in the tools of their expertise.

Another trick: Double the paper trail. It's easy to pigeonhole or lose emails or letters sent to one office only. Write certified letters to both "(congressperson) attn commitee staff" at the committee office and the congressperson's office. Either can slip by the wayside alone, but if both realize they have the same thing (and they will) and you have the receipts, they WILL open it up quickly and have a serious look. Use email if you can find the addresses. State legislators use publically available emails often found on their state's website.
 
What if you were to consider the doctrine of preemption seriously? Do you do anything other than mock people who understand the concepts involved, while complaining other people shouldn't be interested because you're not; but then you keep showing interest in the topic. For years you've been doing this.

I mock the idea that theres some shortcut to take instead of doing the hard advocacy work. The idea that some government agency definition preempts every use regulation in every jurisdiction in the country is straight up magical thinking. I get its an attractive magical idea that somehow rules don't apply to us, that we don't need to build acceptance with other user groups and various managing agencies, basically do all the things that cyclists have been doing for decades. Its just not how things work, its not how things have ever worked when it comes to non-road infrastructure (be it MUPs, bike lanes, trails, whatever).
 
I mock the idea that theres some shortcut to take instead of doing the hard advocacy work. The idea that some government agency definition preempts every use regulation in every jurisdiction in the country is straight up magical thinking. I get its an attractive magical idea that somehow rules don't apply to us, that we don't need to build acceptance with other user groups and various managing agencies, basically do all the things that cyclists have been doing for decades. Its just not how things work, its not how things have ever worked when it comes to non-road infrastructure (be it MUPs, bike lanes, trails, whatever).

it's amusing, the idea that some obscure federal commission's definition of what an e-bike is would magically make such a device (unregistered, unlicensed, uninspected, and uninsured of course!) legal and appropriate to use on every trail, path, bike lane, road, etc across the nation. sometimes i wonder if the people who harp on this just don't understand our society, or ... !?!?
 
I mock the idea that theres some shortcut to take instead of doing the hard advocacy work. The idea that some government agency definition preempts every use regulation in every jurisdiction in the country is straight up magical thinking. I get its an attractive magical idea that somehow rules don't apply to us, that we don't need to build acceptance with other user groups and various managing agencies, basically do all the things that cyclists have been doing for decades. Its just not how things work, its not how things have ever worked when it comes to non-road infrastructure (be it MUPs, bike lanes, trails, whatever).
Point taken and thoroughly analyzed.
I mock the idea that theres some shortcut to take instead of doing the hard advocacy work.
Having to get your approval is hardly my idea of a shortcut. I'd call it hard advocacy work starting at the grass roots level, but you think you're a Congressman and I'm starting top down.
The idea that some government agency definition preempts
This is surely a strawman of the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution and the specific Preemption Clause of 15 U.S.C. § 2085(d), a Statute defining an e-bike and specifically preempting the States which should mean a stern warning to the states to back off; passed by Congress and thus the Supreme Law of the Land as impacting interstate commerce. Clearly not a mere "Agency Definition." Go read the controlling case law and get back to me and I'll truly believe you're an e-bike ally. It's not outdated; it's not unworkable, in fact it is more workable than the 3 class system as many have noted. The confusion comes from the fact PeopleForBikes ignores it while claiming to clarify it. PFB's antics are a market maneuver, my good friend, that has little to nothing to do with law except for insisting it should be law to clarify things.
is straight up magical thinking
You should know all about this territory. It's magical thinking to think rules don't apply to state governments under the federal system. I'm certainly aware of and do not protest the applicable rules I live under. I will absolutely obey a law that controls my usage the same as bicycles, because that is the law. I merely claim that unconstitutional law is not the law, not that my daydreams should be law.

We do have to build acceptance starting at the very bottom and at a grass roots level, and no-one ever said otherwise. Ken's been trying to win people for years, and he is as right as rain, if not still mistaken on finer points. It's obvious my argument involves the fact NO-ONE is paying attention, isn't it? That means bringing the cold hard facts and law to public and congressional attention and is exactly what we are trying to do, starting small, like on an e-bike forum. If you hate the 3 class system, why aren't you volunteering to be the ummmm... treasurer of a grassroots non-profit aimed at correcting the horseshit that passes for common knowledge about e-bikes? Look, we'll put you in charge of the mocking of PFB, since you're so good at the not taking it seriously bit.

You wid us, bro, or you like egg on your face too much to stop playing the clown?

I have many pies to please you with, step right up, and gather round.

And you think flag fringes are appropriate discussion? Step right up.
 
it's amusing, the idea that some obscure federal commission's definition of what an e-bike is would magically make such a device (unregistered, unlicensed, uninspected, and uninsured of course!) legal and appropriate to use on every trail, path, bike lane, road, etc across the nation. sometimes i wonder if the people who harp on this just don't understand our society, or ... !?!?
I understand our society perfectly. In this case, a society legally illiterate even on boilerplate civics concepts. Allow me to introduce you to the "obscure federal commission" that most of us call "Congress" that you should have been educated about as a young child, and a law that is the Sapreme Law of the Land,15 U.S.C. § 2085 with careful attention to (d) under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution. It's not obscure. It's been repeatedly called to your attention. Obscure means something no-one's heard of, not something you argue about but cannot support. None of the below information is obscure:

E-Bike Regulatory Authority Safety Nexus Matrix

EntitySet the rules of the road (Conduct Based Use/Access)?Legally define e-bikes vs. motor vehicles as consumer products?Voluntarily set more stringent safety standards than federal baseline for consumer products?
CPSC/CongressNOYESNO (CPSC; must obey the law)
YES (Congress, by amending the law)
State GovernmentsYESNONO
ManufacturersNONOYES



Engineering Terminolgy and Distorted Usage

“Watts” TermDefinition as AppliedEngineering Purpose of TermLegal ImpactPFB TreatmentCartel Treatment
Nominal or Continuous Electrical PowerMaximum indefinitely sustained thermal capacity of motorCorrect engineering of and installation to electrical power sourcesOnly indirectly relevant. Can be used to calculate mech. powerLynchpin of false PFB legal definition. Not stated in vague PFB model lawUnderstated to comply with exceedingly stringent European standards
Peak (Surge) Electrical PowerMomentary surge of electrical power to overcome inertiaSameNoneUnknown, not stated in model languageDeceive public to believe 'peak' means boosted sustained power
Mechanical PowerPhysical power output at the motor shaftMeasure of physical power output; performance, the “useful power” Mr. Moore (PFB counsel) is enamored withThe Standard of Federal Law, 1 h.p. PFB doesn't know aboutInvisible to PFB who claims there is no federal guidance though plainly statedAvoided entirely except indirectly by switch to terms of torque
 
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You wid us, bro, or you like egg on your face too much to stop playing the clown?

I have many pies to please you with, step right up, and gather round.

And you think flag fringes are appropriate discussion? Step right up.

This is definitely the way a serious advocate talks. Best of luck with your windmills, Mr Quixote.
 
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