The transition

[Mr. Coffee]

Current off-grid systems run about $15k, and an enterprising DIYer can often manage one for half the price. So I dunno where this $50k price comes from unless you are buying it all at Niemann-Marcus and having it installed by lawyers. Or maybe that is the price in miniature Australian dollars.

In the Real World, you only want/need an off grid system if the cost of running power lines to your house is too danged high or just plain not possible. And in that case you should expect to pay a serious premium when you pour concrete or put in a well and water line. Oh, and you'll want your building site to have enough of a hill that your water system into the house is gravity fed and you fill up the water tank when the sun is shining.

If you have a grid-tied system you can get away with much smaller batteries to ride out power outages. You might ask, "but what happens if there is some natural disaster and the power is out for two weeks?" My answer is that if the power is out for much longer than 48 hours usually the lack of electricity at home is the least of your problems.

 

[kevinmccune]

Total offgrid systems are Great! If you have $50,000 to pay for them and another equivalent inflation adjusted amount in 20 years time. 10 years for the battery no doubt. It's like Dental implant bridges, they cost $50,000 too and are a hell of a lot better than old loose dentures, better than natural teeth I recon, but you need $50k upfront. Of course it's all just the leveraging of energy, Oil, from beginning to end. Here is a great article that explains where we are and how we got here. It discusses faith in progress too, the de facto established religion of our societies.

Peak Oil: Specter and Substance

It’s been a long time now since peak oil dropped off the radar screens of public consciousness. Mention it these days and the reaction you’ll get from the few people who remember it at all amounts …

ecosophia.net

There is a lot of chatter on forums about 'amazing' energy tech but many can't even afford a quality car or bicycle. It reminds me of the poor people who watch the foodie shows on TV and put what meager disposable income they have into ingredients for nice meals. It's a form of denial really, an ego boost so they don't feel as poor as they really are. It would be smarter to shepherd what resources they have for the future and eat simpler more basic meals. No thought of tomorrow though, not a good strategy seeing that the western world is getting poorer in aggregate and inflation is rampant.

I'm singularly unimpressed by most of the modern tech myself, I have seen too many broken promises. Solar thermal plants that were supposed to provide cheap electricity, sodium batteries that were supposed to be much more efficient than Lipos. Yet here we are 1/4 of a century after the introduction of the lipo battery and still with nothing ground-breaking to replace it. Just tweaks and more promises from companies who often vanish into obscurity after the product fails to deliver. They are cashing in on Hopium, the desire people have to see a better world. If you want a better world for yourself you have to make it, it won't come delivered on a plate like it did last century. There is nothing wrong with Lipo tech, it's really quite amazing compared to NiMH or NiCad stuff from 2005 and before. And if something genuinely better comes along and proves itself I'll transition over, But we have to remember that new battery tech usually means all new appliances too. Hardly any of the old NiMH devices were compatible with Lipo when it took over.

Sodium will have a place,heck old homesteaders have had great success with the "immortal" Iron Edison battery,its surprising but"hands on Pb systems will even work if you are willing to put in the work keeping them going

Current off-grid systems run about $15k, and an enterprising DIYer can often manage one for half the price. So I dunno where this $50k price comes from unless you are buying it all at Niemann-Marcus and having it installed by lawyers. Or maybe that is the price in miniature Australian dollars.

In the Real World, you only want/need an off grid system if the cost of running power lines to your house is too danged high or just plain not possible. And in that case you should expect to pay a serious premium when you pour concrete or put in a well and water line. Oh, and you'll want your building site to have enough of a hill that your water system into the house is gravity fed and you fill up the water tank when the sun is shining.

If you have a grid-tied system you can get away with much smaller batteries to ride out power outages. You might ask, "but what happens if there is some natural disaster and the power is out for two weeks?" My answer is that if the power is out for much longer than 48 hours usually the lack of electricity at home is the least of your problems.zombies

so true,when the zombies of"lack of preppers" come you had better have a strong like minded neighborhood surrounding you( pray for peace! we are losing the world competition due to the plutocrats and oligarchs)

 

[kevinmccune]

Total offgrid systems are Great! If you have $50,000 to pay for them and another equivalent inflation adjusted amount in 20 years time. 10 years for the battery no doubt. It's like Dental implant bridges, they cost $50,000 too and are a hell of a lot better than old loose dentures, better than natural teeth I recon, but you need $50k upfront. Of course it's all just the leveraging of energy, Oil, from beginning to end. Here is a great article that explains where we are and how we got here. It discusses faith in progress too, the de facto established religion of our societies.

Peak Oil: Specter and Substance

It’s been a long time now since peak oil dropped off the radar screens of public consciousness. Mention it these days and the reaction you’ll get from the few people who remember it at all amounts …

ecosophia.net

There is a lot of chatter on forums about 'amazing' energy tech but many can't even afford a quality car or bicycle. It reminds me of the poor people who watch the foodie shows on TV and put what meager disposable income they have into ingredients for nice meals. It's a form of denial really, an ego boost so they don't feel as poor as they really are. It would be smarter to shepherd what resources they have for the future and eat simpler more basic meals. No thought of tomorrow though, not a good strategy seeing that the western world is getting poorer in aggregate and inflation is rampant.

I'm singularly unimpressed by most of the modern tech myself, I have seen too many broken promises. Solar thermal plants that were supposed to provide cheap electricity, sodium batteries that were supposed to be much more efficient than Lipos. Yet here we are 1/4 of a century after the introduction of the lipo battery and still with nothing ground-breaking to replace it. Just tweaks and more promises from companies who often vanish into obscurity after the product fails to deliver. They are cashing in on Hopium, the desire people have to see a better world. If you want a better world for yourself you have to make it, it won't come delivered on a plate like it did last century. There is nothing wrong with Lipo tech, it's really quite amazing compared to NiMH or NiCad stuff from 2005 and before. And if something genuinely better comes along and proves itself I'll transition over, But we have to remember that new battery tech usually means all new appliances too. Hardly any of the old NiMH devices were compatible with Lipo when it took over.

get a flywheel and nickle iron batteries,that should see you through most outages,now with the advent of vertical solar collectors things can get very interesting

 

[kevinmccune]

Current off-grid systems run about $15k, and an enterprising DIYer can often manage one for half the price. So I dunno where this $50k price comes from unless you are buying it all at Niemann-Marcus and having it installed by lawyers. Or maybe that is the price in miniature Australian dollars.

In the Real World, you only want/need an off grid system if the cost of running power lines to your house is too danged high or just plain not possible. And in that case you should expect to pay a serious premium when you pour concrete or put in a well and water line. Oh, and you'll want your building site to have enough of a hill that your water system into the house is gravity fed and you fill up the water tank when the sun is shining.

If you have a grid-tied system you can get away with much smaller batteries to ride out power outages. You might ask, "but what happens if there is some natural disaster and the power is out for two weeks?" My answer is that if the power is out for much longer than 48 hours usually the lack of electricity at home is the least of your problems.

I know of one in these parts,the grid was 50K so he elected to go solar at last check it was seamless,knew another guy who for 10 years was total off grid,then the batteries failed and he elected to hook unto the "grid"( I think partly because of cost and he was trying to sell the property.A ex airline pilot pretty interesting fellow)