Light vs regular full suspension ebikes

[stompandgo]

I have one Bosch tool left in the stable, an AC powered jigsaw. It was always one of the best, and still is. I use it for tight handiwork in wood. It's basically in semi-retirement as I only use it every few years. It's not worth investing in my battery platforms (M12 and Rigid) to replace it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

"If the Mare runs,the Foal will also"

I know another saying: "A cow would not become a horse even if it stood by the horse for 20 years"

 

[Johnny]

I have one Bosch tool left in the stable, an AC powered jigsaw. It was always one of the best, and still is. I use it for tight handiwork in wood. It's basically in semi-retirement as I only use it every few years. It's not worth investing in my battery platforms (M12 and Rigid) to replace it.

My dewalt shopvac is so quiet and has been rock solid, the cheapest similarly quiet bosch shopvac is at least 4-5 times the price.

 

[kevinmccune]

I have one Bosch tool left in the stable, an AC powered jigsaw. It was always one of the best, and still is. I use it for tight handiwork in wood. It's basically in semi-retirement as I only use it every few years. It's not worth investing in my battery platforms (M12 and Rigid) to replace it.

Milwaukee best,until recently Ryobi was all I could afford which served me well,if I was in business building the big red M would be my go to,no Ryobi is making better stuff( the prices have increased proportionately,)picked up a nice Ryobi chainsaw-that sucker was heavy and expensive,I guess gas fumes until I croak.

 

[kevinmccune]

I know another saying: "A cow would not become a horse even if it stood by the horse for 20 years"

Stefan as the "zeitgeist' goes these days there are those that stubbornly challenge that!( I identify as an "Independent" even though my wife sez' I am a Dumocrat!,yesterday it occurred to me half of the worlds problem are caused by a certain gender,after yesterday evening the number was raised to 75%.
'

 

[Johnny]

Seems bosch gen5 CX has the 28mph class3 limit on the orbea Muga. I guess they let the manufacturer decide on the class now.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Cannot wait to read your ride report, Johnny.

 

[Johnny]

I tried the Avinox, and now I understand why the industry seems to be in panic mode.
That motor is incredibly powerful in Turbo, honestly, more than I would ever need yet it remains very controllable. While I don’t require that much power, it’s reassuring to know it’s there when you want it. The adjustability is excellent as well. What really stands out is that even with an 800Wh battery, the bike still feels light. It makes me question the point of lower-powered options with smaller batteries when something like this exists.
I might wait a bit longer to see the new Avinox system appear on bikes from other brands.
It also looks like Specialized has just released an update to bring their power output to Avinox levels. Apparently, you can run their bikes with only a small range extender, which should significantly reduce the overall weight. It’s just unfortunate that their pricing starts quite high.

 

[Catalyzt]

I tried the Avinox, and now I understand why the industry seems to be in panic mode.
That motor is incredibly powerful in Turbo, honestly, more than I would ever need yet it remains very controllable. While I don’t require that much power, it’s reassuring to know it’s there when you want it. The adjustability is excellent as well. What really stands out is that even with an 800Wh battery, the bike still feels light. It makes me question the point of lower-powered options with smaller batteries when something like this exists.
I might wait a bit longer to see the new Avinox system appear on bikes from other brands.
It also looks like Specialized has just released an update to bring their power output to Avinox levels. Apparently, you can run their bikes with only a small range extender, which should significantly reduce the overall weight. It’s just unfortunate that their pricing starts quite high.

I'm curious, which bike did you try that had the Avinox? What was the weight?

The point of lower-powered options with smaller batteries is that some of us still want a good workout, but also want to travel at Class III speeds when riding around town or elsewhere.

Most of my week day rides are short springs, a little over four miles. Going from 40nm /47 pounds to 60nm /36 pounds is great for a lot of reasons; I do have to pick my bike up and portage it over some obstacles, and put it in the hatchback of my old sports car.

But 60nm of torque is almost too much for my local terrain (and I'm almost 70 years old and recovering from cardiac arrest, though I'm putting out more power now than I was before then). There are only two hills where I need turbo, and only for very brief segments that I don't ride regularly. In these hills, 28 MPH (my highest speed) is really, really fast whether you are riding or driving-- safer when riding than driving because you can stop faster for dogs or pedestrians.

100nm would either be not enough of a workout, or too harrowing when I'm sharing the road with pedestrians, animals, etc. I don't need a bigger battery, either-- I'm not going to ride more than 40 miles in a day, at least anytime soon-- so why lug it around?

There may come a day when I need that much power for climbing, but hopefully not soon. What is cool about a light gravel bike is that for some errands, like going to my barber, I'm hardly using any assist at all, the motor is off most of the time-- and yet, it's much more stable than my old acoustic road bike, which I keep in New York. Riding the old Raleigh with those thin tires-- man, you gotta be so careful on pavement!

If there were an affordable 100nm option that was under 40 pounds, and somehow had thicker tires and more cush in the suspension, yeah, that might be interesting. That's why I'm asking about the overall weight, which I know is often a hard number to find without picking up a bike and standing on a bathroom scale.

 

[Johnny]

I'm curious, which bike did you try that had the Avinox? What was the weight?

Amflow pro. It should be around 45lbs but that is with 800wh battery. A 350wh battery like tq systems would shave 4-5lbs bringing it to around 40lbs. This is a full suspension mountain bike, a gravel version should be much lighter. That said nothing is as plush as a good fs bike. Personally, I don’t notice much difference between a bike in the low 40s and one in the high 30s. Around 40 lbs already feels light to me.
As for the 100Nm torque,is it too much? That number really comes into play at very low cadences, like from a dead stop. Just putting your body weight on a pedal can generate quite a bit more torque than that, so I wouldn’t call it unnecessary.
Do I need 100Nm? No. With the right gearing, I can climb just about anything even without assistance. On a Bosch system, unless I wanted to climb fast, I mostly rode in Eco mode. But if the difference between 50Nm (like the TQ) and 100Nm only adds 1–2 lbs, I’d take the extra torque.
Happy riding.

 

[JL0256]

It’s crazy how much prices have jumped, but the tech is finally getting interesting. I’m with stompandgo on the DJI Avinox—it might be the first system to actually solve the weight-to-power problem without making the bike feel like a 50lb boat in the corners.

Johnny, if you're coming from a traditional MTB, you'll probably appreciate the agility of a carbon TQ frame way more than raw torque. But that 105Nm from DJI is hard to ignore if those boutique brands actually deliver this spring. Might be worth waiting a few more months to see the real-world reviews.

 

[stompandgo]

The #1 "problem", at least for me, with the Avinox system, is that it is 100% dependent on your phone app to use. All of the bike data that is collected gets sent straight to China. You cannot even start the bike without your phone paired to the bike. Not enough is said about this.

 

[fexixav]

Recently, I’ve been thinking about getting another full suspension eMTB. Some of the newer models I’ve seen look really appealing. Although the prices seems to have increased a lot, the average offering seems to come with higher end components and I see a lot of CF frames.

While researching more traditional full powered eMTBs like those with Bosch CX(gen 5 seems decent) or Shimano EP8/EP801(old but there are a few good deals on these) motors, I realized there’s now a growing category of lighter eMTBs. These bikes pair less powerful motors with carbon frames and seem to offer a very different riding experience.

Several of the models I looked at use TQ HPR50 motors. They’re very light and visually, almost indistinguishable from regular mtbs. The trek I saw took me a moment before realizing that it was an electric bike. I’m curious to hear your opinion on this type of bikes compared to the regular ones.

I would be interested in something I can easily hop on, ride leisurely on hills, light trails, and that feels closer to a regular bike especially when the motor is turned off instant home offer in houston. Additionally, many of the trails in my area have a no–e-bike policy. I was wondering whether riding a TQ50 or similar light eMTB with the motor turned off would generally be acceptable on those trails.

Lightweight TQ HPR50 eMTBs feel much closer to regular bikes: lighter quieter more agile playful subtle assist minimal drag when off ideal for leisurely hills light trails and that analog feel. Full power Bosch Shimano bikes are stronger for steep technical stuff but heavier bulkier noisier. Motor off usually doesn't allow them on no e bike trails rules ban based on motor presence not usage. Stealthy but still risky. Check local rules. Demo a TQ if you can.

 

[DaveMatthews]

The #1 "problem", at least for me, with the Avinox system, is that it is 100% dependent on your phone app to use. All of the bike data that is collected gets sent straight to China. You cannot even start the bike without your phone paired to the bike. Not enough is said about this.

Not into this format either.
There's a reason that DJI drones were banned. Not saying I know why they deserve it, but I do know that the original complaint came as a result of metadata being "sent home".
So if this is similar, I am NOT on for anyone mapping everything I do with "thing X" in my country/locale.
Happy to be proven wrong... cuz... um... Canadian!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Levo R. Thoughts?

 

[Johnny]

Levo R. Thoughts?

If it was cheaper this would have been at the top on my list. Specialized while not as bad as Trek still is quite pricy(the carbon frame pushes it to $16k).

Lightweight TQ HPR50 eMTBs feel much closer to regular bikes: lighter quieter more agile playful subtle assist minimal drag when off ideal for leisurely hills light trails and that analog feel.

Yes I already test rode one and liked how it rode. What I didn't like was the small battery and high consumption.

The #1 "problem", at least for me, with the Avinox system, is that it is 100% dependent on your phone app to use. All of the bike data that is collected gets sent straight to China.

I’m sure they could be required to make it “offline” through straightforward legislation. That shouldn’t be a reason not to import them.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Specialized while not as bad as Trek still is quite pricy(the carbon frame pushes it to $16k).

Levo R Comp (carbon) is $9.2k.

 

[stompandgo]

I test rode a customer's Yeti MTe with the Bosch CX-R. The thing ripped. The Yeti frame is miles above the Stumpjumper clone frame that the Amflow uses. If you can live without the boost, take a look at it.

 

[kevinmccune]

Not into this format either.
There's a reason that DJI drones were banned. Not saying I know why they deserve it, but I do know that the original complaint came as a result of metadata being "sent home".
So if this is similar, I am NOT on for anyone mapping everything I do with "thing X" in my country/locale.
Happy to be proven wrong... cuz... um... Canadian! Canada! the land of snow,Sasquatch,Canadian bacon( probably some good lager) and wait for it-Eh!