Riding without the motor

[BlackHand]

Tried licking my motor on yesterday's ride but couldn't feel a difference. Maybe I'm licking it in the wrong place?
;^}

At least you confirmed that flexibility and balance aren't issues for you as you age!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Depends on how my knee is doing.

Same here. On any given day, I might have to pamper one, both, or neither. But I can almost always ride an ebike in some fashion.

The knees are usually happy when I can keep cadence in the 80-95 rpm range. When I can do that in OFF, OFF is on the menu.

But I always need assist for the one thing my knees hate most: Strong accelerations at low cadence. My first ebike had a throttle, and keeping my knees out of that situation accounted for 95% of its use.

 

[E biker]

Yesterday I thought I had enough battery to last,well I forgot to check the charge meter, but I ran out and old school pedal for three miles before I thought about removing the battery and putting it in my wife's sattle bag,the last mile was a little bit better , Denango fat tire has a heavy battery.

 

[Catalyzt]

My bike is 46.5 pounds-- sort of an "L" instead of an "SL"-- and I'm fascinated at how minor increases in grade makes a difference in terms of whether, and how long, I can ride without assistance.

On dead flat terrain, I set assistance to zero, and it's hardly any different from ECO, I ride for five miles or more that way. A very slight upward incline is fine for a mile or two if I'm in shape (and I know I don't have a brutal climb ahead.) The bummer is, to get to the Verdugos, I need to ride for four or five miles that are just a few degrees steeper than I can manage with no assistance, and the last mile or two is brutal even in ECO-- and I really need to conserve as much power (in the battery, and in the human) as possible for the climb.

It really might make sense for me to do a CF wheel build for the Motobecane -- @PedalUma, we were considering this for the Marin-- with high-tech low-friction hubs, slightly narrower tires, and maybe even a titanium front fork, CF bars and seatpost, hollow cranks-- the whole weight weenie package. Could I drop four more pounds, decrease rolling resistance even further, ride without assistance longer, and get significantly more range? It would really help give me better access to steeper and more interesting terrain.

Of course, I have to have super lightweight clothing, tool, and water options as well. (That sounded senseless, I cannot decrease the weight of water! I do have a lightweight sling option for a small plastic water bottle.)

 

[PedalUma]

There are diminishing returns at some point when sheading weight. It can get to the point were sheading another three grams costs another $1000. But there is one proven way to shed weight though which costs nothing. They ride naked every year in Madison, WI.

 

[Chargeride]

Age restricted, they should know we are all old enough on here to have a sticky karma sutra on the shelf

 

[Roamers]

I ride unpowered most of the time; knee dependent. Also will kick it on if increased speed is needed (usually potential rain related).

Unpowered "normal" speed is 12ish mph; powered normal is 15 mph, (20 used once).

 

[PedalUma]

No one would believe the project I am working on. It is green, seven feet long and up on an operating table. For one of its wheels I had to use a folding step ladder with a milk crate on top of it. It started as a $7200+ recumbent trike that got a botched hub-drive conversion. I am taking all that off and starting fresh with a mid-drive. Stripped of all electrical, it is still well over 100 pounds. No riding without power with this baby, unless you are on salt flats without wind. The hardest part was getting a solid axle cargo grade replacement wheel; I found one, the right size, new with new gears for $70 cash.

 

[PedalUma]

@Jeremy McCreary, I had to replace the chain; the new one it is getting a special hot wax treatment that will never need lube or cleaning. The old chain is now draped over a standard door. Each side's end is two inches from the floor. It is that long! I got the new wheel from someone who used to work warranty at Yuba HQ. It was hanging for over five years on a hook. This 'bike' requires power. It will have duel batteries. It is getting silver crank arms and a silver disguising chainguard.

 

[Chazmo]

I tried riding an unassisted fatty back in the early 2000s when I was a younger man, and even then I realized I was not enough of a hero to do that on a regular basis. I gave up on fat bikes back then since they were not practical or useful for my riding purposes.

Now, with my 75lb e-fatty, I can only turn the assist off if the trail is barely (and I mean barely) upward slanted (maybe 0.25%). Anything more than that and I cannot sustain 8 - 10MPH. On the road it’s a foregone conclusion because I almost never want to go that slowly so assist is always on.

Honestly, though, if it’s a flat trail, I often turn off the assist. The rail trails that I ride are great for that as the grades are (obviously) mild. If it’s an ascent, usually not. But that’s what round-trips are for.

 

[sc00ter]

I was coming back from Walmart today with cat food for the strays. I was on the Xpedition with my wife on the back and I had it on assist 3 cruising along. I hit a bump and I'm thinking "Wow, I should bump the assist up! Bike just got heavier!" but nooooo, the assist turned off! I huffed those pedals for a block in the lowest gear and thought my fat butt was gonna die! I pulled over and somehow got it working again but that one block was total torture!

Oh, and later that same day I got a flat on my Honda Fit. Luckily I plugged it and it's fine now. Now the bathroom sink is leaking. I'll deal with my 'Happens in Threes' in the morning.

 

[Chazmo]

I was coming back from Walmart today with cat food for the strays. I was on the Xpedition with my wife on the back and I had it on assist 3 cruising along. I hit a bump and I'm thinking "Wow, I should bump the assist up! Bike just got heavier!" but nooooo, the assist turned off! I huffed those pedals for a block in the lowest gear and thought my fat butt was gonna die! I pulled over and somehow got it working again but that one block was total torture!

Oh, and later that same day I got a flat on my Honda Fit. Luckily I plugged it and it's fine now. Now the bathroom sink is leaking. I'll deal with my 'Happens in Threes' in the morning.

tough day!

 

[Julianaa]

Man, I totally get that — stress lately has been no joke. Riding it out (literally) sounds like a solid plan.
I've been trying to stay on top of it too — even grabbed a few supplements after reading some Pharmacy B2B stuff on managing stress and recovery. Between that and some heavy-bike cardio, it's like DIY therapy.

 

[stompandgo]

I'm new to the e-bike but no stranger to working out on the bike and the stress relief that a nice Zone 2/3 ride provides. I find myself starting out in Mode 1 (Eco) and riding until I start to get tired. Then I'll either switch to Mode 2 (Tour) for a little extra speed and boost as I get close to home, or Mode 3 or Mode 4 just to fart around.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Another reason to be glad that my Vado SL rides well in OFF...

The good news: Riding with the wife a lot more since getting her on the right ebike.

The bad news: She can leave me in the dust anytime she wants now but generally just pokes along at 10 mph instead.

OFF makes that pace a lot easier to bear.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

OFF makes that pace a lot easier to bear.

I had a hard time to ride with my friend Jerzy (now, sadly deceased) when I used to ride a Lovelec, a Czech hub-drive motor e-bike. Jerzy was a good climber but his speed on the flat was around 18 km/h. Hub drives tend to keep the speed defined by a given assistance level. As we do not use throttles in Europe, I could not throttle the Level 1 assist down to ride at my friend's low speed! Therefore, I often rode in OFF mode with my friend.

When I bought a Vado SL, I could set a low assistance (I think 35/35% ECO; mid-drives hate very low assistance as they need energy to spin!) and it was fine to ride with Jerzy. However, a disaster struck on May 3rd, 2022. A female friend of ours bought a hardtail MTB and set off for a ride together with us. Katy is simply unable to raise her seat at a proper level as she is hysterically afraid to crash; she feels she needs to be able to plant her feet on the ground when stationary and seated (instead of getting off the saddle). That made her pedalling totally inefficient with most of her effort wasted. Katy and Jerzy rode as slowly as I not only needed to ride unassisted myself but I was simply too fast for them anyway! We made a good 60 km on that day, which remains Katy's personal record to this day

It was a great friendship. We all miss Jerzy badly!

 

[Renee]

I could have sworn there was a thread about this, but I cannot find it.

That aside, work has been stressful lately, and the weather has gotten pretty nice...so I'm riding more. And the timing couldn't be any better. Starting a few weeks ago, my stress levels got so high, that the only way I could get to sleep at night was to work out for 4-5 hours per day...just wearing myself out. For some reason I took out the Allant when I should have been riding analog.

I couldn't ride slow enough with the energy I needed to burn, so I kicked the motor off. Before I knew it, I'd been riding 2 hours with no motor. On a probably 75 lb bike with all the crap on it. I did this for a few more days, then an 11-day vacation kicked in...saved by the bell.

But it sparked an epiphany. This is the time of year that I'm getting my legs back under me, and what better way to do that than to ride this thing initially with no motor...only using it to get out of a sketchy situation or get me back home when I get tired. I also want to get into bikepacking & this seems like a good way to make sure I wanna do that before committing to a heavy, bulky bike without a motor. A bikepacking simulator if you will.

I think I'm going to keep doing this whether or not I get the bikepacking thing going actually. It can be tough to get in a path workout without going too fast...people everywhere. But add 3 bikes' worth of weight onto one, and all of the sudden, you're putting in the work without hauling a$$. And I can carry the kitchen sink!

How about y'all? Anybody ride with it turned off?

I have a pedal assist and I ride with the assist off all the time. Of course the bike is only 38 lbs but it was 10 lbs heavier than my traditional bike so it took some time to build up some muscle. Hubby has a pedal assist at 50lbs and he also rides with the motor off until we get to hills. I do most hills with the motor off because they are generally mild where we ride. I use the motor on steep hills and after around 25 miles and we're on the way home. At my age after a 20 mile ride or more the rest of the day I'm a bit tired and end up sitting and reading. The motor helps prevent that to an extent.

 

[PedalUma]

I regularly ride an analog bike. It helps refine my pedaling technique.
Parents are ditching minivans for cargo bikes

https://www.npr.org/2025/10/18/nx-s1-5532087/why-some-parents-are-ditching-minivans-for-cargo-bikes

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

So interesting to see how people use and not use the assist available to them. I started out with a 'lowest possible assist at all times' policy, but OFF wasn't really an option with the 70 lb torque-sensing hub-drive commuter I was riding at the time.

That policy got me back in shape as hoped, but finally realized how silly it was. I could layer as much exertion as I wanted on any assist level, and I was missing out on a lot of fun and time savings at higher levels.

OFF first became a good option with the 38 lb power-sensing mid-drive gravel bike I ride now. And the policy now is to have no policy. If I have the time and battery for it, I use the level that seems right in the moment. Always exerting myself to some extent, and 30-40% of the time in my mix of hills and flats, the right level is OFF.

 

[rob feature]

Funny that you mention 'policies'. I've sort of developed 'guidelines' over time.

I still don't use the motor for the most part unless I need to get across a street or I'm getting tired or on a mission. If I can't keep it above around 8 MPH, that means I've run out of gears because of hills or wind or whatever, the motor comes on. Legs are showing it too. I've found no better leg workout.

I've also found myself keeping the electrics on even if I intend to not use them. That way I don't have to wait on the electrics to boot up if I need a quick boost. Also lets me monitor speed and track mileage. And kick the lights on if needed.

I'm getting 30 - 40 miles these days before needing motor on what I estimate to be a 75 - 80 lb mid-drive when all loaded. And I'm usually riding with all the goodies. I was able to get 2 different rental parties on their way up in the mountains a few weeks ago. Those rental companies send folks out without any tools and sometimes poorly maintained bikes. One needed chain-guard removal, then break and re-join a non master link chain. I had all the tools on me for that and then some. Latest addition is a Cycplus AS2 Pro pump - got to use that on this bunch too. These things are the cat's pajamas if you haven't tried them yet!