Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 (aluminum) is out, is a Vado SL 2 next?

[BlackHand]

this is probably extra important because the reach on these bikes seems VERY LONG. at 6’2, they recommend the XL for me, with 435 mm reach. my creo was 391, my aethos 402, my addict 384. 435 is nuts.

Regarding reach, the drop bar Skitch comes with a 70mm stem. I'm pretty sure the stock stems on your Creo and Aethos would have been 110's. Hard to tell with the integrated cockpit on the Scott but it looks pretty long too.

Accounting for the 40mm difference puts them all in the same ballpark. I assume this was the compromise SC made to be able to offer both bar types on the Skitch frame. The flat bar version gets a 80mm stem to gain back a little reach. I guess the drop bar Skitch might be a little twitchy on high speed descents as a result? But that's not really who it's marketed to anyways...

Looking forward to some ride reports on the alloy Creo2. I assume E5 Alloy is Specialized speak for aluminum alloy?

 

[gpburdell]

Looking forward to some ride reports on the alloy Creo2. I assume E5 Alloy is Specialized speak for aluminum alloy?

FWIW my E5 Creo1 rides great, I’d expect the same from the Creo2. and yes, that’s their aluminum frame.

 

[mschwett]

Regarding reach, the drop bar Skitch comes with a 70mm stem. I'm pretty sure the stock stems on your Creo and Aethos would have been 110's. Hard to tell with the integrated cockpit on the Scott but it looks pretty long too.

Accounting for the 40mm difference puts them all in the same ballpark. I assume this was the compromise SC made to be able to offer both bar types on the Skitch frame. The flat bar version gets a 80mm stem to gain back a little reach. I guess the drop bar Skitch might be a little twitchy on high speed descents as a result? But that's not really who it's marketed to anyways...

Looking forward to some ride reports on the alloy Creo2. I assume E5 Alloy is Specialized speak for aluminum alloy?

makes sense, certainly a big savings for them vs making two frames. i suppose it feels a little different, the front wheel being so much further forward relative to the bars - similar to a slacker head tube.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Agreed. Mine is closing in on 6000 miles in a month or so. Best bike I’ve ever owned, and I’ve had a bunch of them over the years!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am a gravel cyclist... Even if I do not like the type of surfaces we are forced to ride in my region (forest, sands, mud, and even concrete slabs or blocks called "trilink"...)

If I had one gripe about my Vado SL it is the rigidity of the frame. As you know I have softened the ride somewhat and I find it entirely acceptable now.

That's why I went with Redshift front/rear. (Should have bought VSL 5.0 non-EQ right from the beginning). The last step I've done are 42 mm tubeless Tracer Pro that I can run at 2.5 bars (36 psi).

I wish my SL was as quiet as my full power Vado!

True! There are more and more opinions Vado SL is quieter than Creo 1 (using the same motor). What I found is the SL 1.1 motor is quieter at low cadence (it does not help me much though!)

makes sense, certainly a big savings for them vs making two frames

Vado SL is one of the best selling Specialized e-bikes because it made the dream of a lightweight "just a bicycle" e-bike come true. I see no reason for Specialized make a weird flat-bar e-bike based on the Creo 2 frame.

Specialized Bicycles made an announcement of the new Creo 2 E5 on Facebook. I took part in a discussion on the Polish page of the brand. There was no single e-bike hater there! (Only owners of Specialized e-bikes -- or other e-bike brands -- were present in the discussion). So there were owners of Levos, Kenevos, Vado SL, Orbea Rise, and a single Creo EVO user. The Kenevo user asked this question: 'What sense does it make to produce a 25 km/h road e-bike?'. I explained it was a gravel e-bike, which was met with some understanding. However, the man pressed hard: 'But when you are on asphalt, you will need to drag extra kilograms with your own legs!'

A Polish gravel cyclist with his modified Vado SL on holiday in Italy (the photo taken from the discussion). See the soiled wheels

Creo 2 (and especially Creo 1) are niche products in Europe, the biggest e-bike market. I'm sure Specialized know this, and that's why they put the stress on the fact Creo 2 is a gravel e-bike, as gravel cycling is popular in Europe, and the low assisted speed can be justified by riding the Creo 2 in rough terrain (which we are certainly not lacking here).

i suppose it feels a little different, the front wheel being so much further forward relative to the bars - similar to a slacker head tube.

At last someone could explain why I felt so strangely on the Diverge EVO (and the Epic 8 was even worse)! The stem was projecting approximately at the half of my torso... Riding either of those bikes made me exhausted soon. While I could ride a Creo 1 size 54 for 57 km and was not really happy but it was not a struggle at least. (I was frustrated by the fact anyone rode their bikes faster than I could!)

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Well now that I think about it...two gripes....I wish my SL was as quiet as my full power Vado!
I particularly find the Vado SL acceptable at the price that I paid and I do not wish to pay $6K or $8K for a similar but carbon version. I remain interested in the options that are out there.....whether I'm a buyer or not.

With you on the quietness, paticularily on hills, and yes I adore my Vado Sl it's such a trooper. But it doesn't stop me looking at future options. It's fun. I would love to be a fly on the wall at Spesh HQ as they navigate this bike biz crises and see what new bikes are planned. A flatbar Creo? I don't know if there is demand. But then I'd be interested to see their research into Vado SL buyer numbers and what way those buyers generally ride the bikes- mostly on road? Mostly City use? Mixed? That would be fascinating. I think new model releases have slowed, they are more cautious - a cheaper alloy Creo 2 matches the cost of living crises.

I just read this morning that Kona is either being flogged off by it's corporate overlords or shut down completely. Massive shock that.

Kent Outdoors looking for buyer for Kona Bikes

MONTEREY, Calif. (BRAIN) — Kent Outdoors, which acquired Kona Bikes from its founders in 2022, said Friday that after a strategic review it has decided to sell the bike brand.

www.bicycleretailer.com

 

[mfgrep]

With you on the quietness, paticularily on hills, and yes I adore my Vado Sl it's such a trooper. But it doesn't stop me looking at future options. It's fun. I would love to be a fly on the wall at Spesh HQ as they navigate this bike biz crises and see what new bikes are planned. A flatbar Creo? I don't know if there is demand. But then I'd be interested to see their research into Vado SL buyer numbers and what way those buyers generally ride the bikes- mostly on road? Mostly City use? Mixed? That would be fascinating. I think new model releases have slowed, they are more cautious - a cheaper alloy Creo 2 matches the cost of living crises.

I just read this morning that Kona is either being flogged off by it's corporate overlords or shut down completely. Massive shock that.

Kent Outdoors looking for buyer for Kona Bikes

MONTEREY, Calif. (BRAIN) — Kent Outdoors, which acquired Kona Bikes from its founders in 2022, said Friday that after a strategic review it has decided to sell the bike brand.

www.bicycleretailer.com

In Kansas City we have many bike stores, however, Erik's is our biggest 'chain' store and there is one within walking distance of my house.....and another located about 45 blocks away. Both have had the same SL's sitting on the shelf for seemingly YEARS. One of these stores still offers a few 2021 SL's that have been languishing endlessly.
They seem to sell a TON of Aventon bikes....but I see the same BMC, Rocky Mountain, and Specialized bikes sitting for lengthy periods. I am waiting for the SL's to go on sale to pick one up for my father and I'd guess by the end of June I could see that sale. Just guessing.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

IF the Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 had a carbon fork at the $4500 price, I would sell my 2022 Vado SL 5.0 EQ in a heartbeat and get the Creo 2. I would swap drivetrains (XD Driver, 10-52 GX1275 cassette, and Wolf Tooth 46t chain ring) on to the Creo. I would also probably move the fenders and rack from the Vado over to the Creo. Yes an all carbon frame would be nice, but I don't absolutely need one.

Doug

 

[mschwett]

IF the Turbo Creo 2 Comp E5 had a carbon fork at the $4500 price, I would sell my 2022 Vado SL 5.0 EQ in a heartbeat and get the Creo 2. I would swap drivetrains (XD Driver, 10-52 GX1275 cassette, and Wolf Tooth 46t chain ring) on to the Creo. I would also probably move the fenders and rack from the Vado over to the Creo. Yes an all carbon frame would be nice, but I don't absolutely need one.

Doug

aluminum creos have carbon forks and carbon seatposts.

 

[EmilyRides]

A couple of cycling friends mentioned this new aluminum Creo model recently, and I am seriously tempted. I'm currently riding a Kona Dew-e DL I bought in fall 2022, and I love it, except that I really want a Class 3 ebike. My husband is a pretty serious roadie, and although we ride together pretty well with me on the Kona and him on his Trek Emonda (no "e" for him!), there are times when he gets way ahead of me if we're on a flatter area where he can sustain 20+ mph for quite awhile, and I can't keep up. I can go faster than 20 mph downhill, but I'm small (100 lbs), and the bike is heavy, so no way can I sustain that for long on the flats. It's a great utility bike and I would keep it for that, but for faster recreational rides, is somewhat lacking. The flat handlebars are another issue and cause some numbness problems for me.

I'm petite (5'1"-ish) so have a limited choice in e-road bikes. At the time I was looking, I briefly checked out the Creo online, but even the comp model was way above my price range, and the standover was a bit tall for me. This new model has a lower price point, a slightly lower standover, and 165mm cranks, which is also a plus for me. I'd ridden non-e road bikes for years before getting my Kona, so am used to drop bars and lighter-weight bikes.

Definitely something to seriously think about....!

 

[direwolf]

Hi all. I'm considering a Turbo Vado 5.0 SL EQ as my first foray into e-bikes. I already have analog gravel and road bikes. This would be primarily for urban commuting and errands. Two questions:

1. I'm assuming that a Vado 2 will be coming out this year -- should I wait? I'm trying to figure out what the differences are likely to be - probably slightly stronger motor based on Creo 2. But I'm wondering what the pricing will be. New Turbo Vado 5.0's can be had for $3,999.

2. I can't find a Vado near me to test ride (I live in LA). I saw the Skitch and Topstone Neo in the store. The Skitch is cool and shockingly light, but too expensive. The Topstone was a lot heavier than I expected, and I prefer a flat bar. Are there any other bikes I should be cross-shopping? I can't really find anything else. I want a Class 3 with a flat or swept back bars that is pretty light and is not too much of a thief/vandal magnet. I've seen great deals on Pinarello, Pivot and Niner electric gravel bikes. I could convert them to flat bars and put racks on them, but they look too fancy and it would wind up costing more.

Thanks

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can understand your dilemma very well! It is all down to whether you prefer to be riding this season or own an e-bike of your dreams the next year

No-one promises releasing the Vado SL 2 this year but as it often happens, Vado SL 2 might be announced in September, and of course the price would be premium.

Vado SL 2 should be:

• Quieter
• More powerful but at the cost of a reduced range

That's it. You talk about Class 3 but the true fact is it is hard to ride a Vado SL faster than 21 mph unless you apply the full Turbo or are assisted by tailwind or you ride downhill. It is all because of the air drag that affects that low power, flat-bar e-bike.

I was in a situation somewhat similar to yours in June 2021. I could have waited to December to get a Vado SL ST in a gorgeous colour or take an uninspiring gray/white Vado SL high-step then and just ride it. I'd say I have never regretted my buying the available Vado SL on the spot

I do not discuss Skitch or Cannondale as I am not familiar with them. If you are after the Topstone, at least check if it has a latest Bosch motor.

 

[mfgrep]

Hi all. I'm considering a Turbo Vado 5.0 SL EQ as my first foray into e-bikes.

Good Morning. Great choice!...and to add to Stefan's already good advice:

You should make every attempt to ride a Vado SL prior to purchase. I own the 2022 Vado 4.0 SL and I continue to enjoy it very much. Too many riders have a premonition about any specific bike, its geometry, its power, its handling, and its battery life in real-world situations and often those premonitions are based on reviews or even fantasy. The Vado SL is an awesome lightweight, low power, small battery, and very analog-like bicycle. I use a Vado SL for what I believe is its intended purpose.....as a fitness bike. With the Specialized 1.1 motor the Vado SL does provide me with more than enough motor assistance for this intended purpose.....again.....more than enough. There are many who have purchased this bike expecting miracles who run this bike in turbo mode constantly and complain that it has a short range. We can't have both lightweight/nimble and super powerful and long range. It doesn't exist. I keep my Vado SL naked (water bottle and QuadLock mount only) and I use my Vado SL as an exercise machine and calorie burner. It is a lot of fun. For this purpose I NEVER feel that the motor is not powerful enough. Given its light weight I am able to run the SL with the motor turned off much of the time and thus the battery life/range is downright excellent (again fitness bike). If you are expecting an ebike that powers you up hills and around town while carrying cargo for errands and giving you huge range.....this is not the bike for that. Sure the SL can carry panniers and a few things, however, this bike really isn't made for this imo. If I had any gripes whatsoever about my Vado SL it would be motor noise. The 1.1 motor is not silent and at times I can find it mildly irritating. This is not a deal breaker for me but it is worth noting to an uninitiated person. So the summary is....the Vado SL is completely awesome so long as your use-case and expectations mesh with precisely what the Vado SL is.

As far as the next iteration of a Vado SL? The truth is that none of us know. If Specialized is coming out soon with a new Vado SL then it is currently the world's best kept secret. One could opine that the next Vado SL (if any) would offer the same motor that is currently being offered in the latest Specialized Creo bicycle (the 1.2 motor) which offers slightly more power and a noise level marked more by a differing 'tone' than it is by a lower volume.
You could test ride one of these new Creo's and get an idea of motor ability and motor noise. A next Vado SL (again if any) is unlikely to offer substantially longer range given what the SL's are primarily built for (battery technology hasn't changed that much during the recent 2-3 years). These bikes are made for those that expect to get exercise and work-out while riding. These SL's will most definitely ASSIST you and will flatten hills for you. These bikes will do all of this while feeling almost entirely like a typical good quality analog bicycle. For this it is awesome to say the least. If you are expecting different you might be disappointed.

If you are able to find a bargain on a current model Vado SL and if my description of the bike seems to mesh with your needs..... I would buy it now. The next iteration (if any lol) will most certainly be more expensive and I seriously doubt that any of its revisions would be worth the premium TO ME (your mileage may vary). The Santa Cruz Skitch looks like a huge winner to me and has certainly caught my eye, however, I wouldn't pay that premium price for a bike which makes the Vado SL look like an absolute bargain. Don't get me wrong....that Santa Cruz carbon frame looks AWESOME....but at what price? The Topstone has not caught my fancy whatsoever....but I am not the most objective when it comes to Cannondale. We all have some FOMO but I can honestly say that should a new Vado SL be soon released....I will remain perfectly happy with my current Vado SL.

As for theft: Any of the bikes that you mentioned are magnets for bike thieves and none particularly more than the other. These are premium ebikes and any of your selections will be in high demand by thieves. Use common sense given your particular geography and you should be fine. These are not bikes that should be locked up in a downtown area for the entire day/night while you are working and away from the bike. Sad but true. If you live in NYC your concept of bike security should differ substantially compared to if your location is in Omaha, NE. Again...common sense should prevail. Be mindful but do not allow the internet bike security videos to make you purchase NYC security for your DuBuque, IA needs. I rarely lock up my Vado SL only because I rarely ride my Vado SL to a destination. I use the Vado SL for 1-2 hour fitness rides and typically ride non-stop. I did buy a Kryptonite New York long shackle version that I carry on the back of my full power Vado 4.0 which I intend to use more frequently for shopping, errands, and cargo missions.

I haven't been entirely anticipating an updated Vado SL for 2024...but I could certainly be wrong. I have more been anticipating a sale price on the current SL's similar to the one that occurred in June 2023....but again I could be wrong. I do watch the inventory at Specialized website and lately it seems that Vado SL's are not being replenished as quickly as prior....with limited sizes/colors currently available. In my experience this phenomena could change very quickly with colors/sizes added at a moment's notice. One cannot know for certain unless an announcement occurs.

 

[gpburdell]

I do not discuss Skitch or Cannondale as I am not familiar with them. If you are after the Topstone, at least check if it has a latest Bosch motor.

and if it does, check carefully whether it will communicate with anything except a Bosch head unit or phone app. While unimportant to some, it'd be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

and if it does, check carefully whether it will communicate with anything except a Bosch head unit or phone app. While unimportant to some, it'd be a deal breaker for me.

That is an excellent point. Specialized systems open to the world was what attracted me to the brand back in 2019.

 

[mschwett]

and if it does, check carefully whether it will communicate with anything except a Bosch head unit or phone app. While unimportant to some, it'd be a deal breaker for me.

bosch is the exception here, pretty much all the other big players have virtually the same capabilities for the sensors, outputting basic data (cadence, an approximation of power, etc) via ANT+. fazua, mahle, brose, bikes from specialized and santa cruz and scott and giant etc etc.

as many of us have lamented, what very few of them do is output the same data using standard bluetooth protocols. it’s generally ANT+ for the open data and BLE for the proprietary app.

bosch just doesn’t seem to like to play with others at all!!!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

bosch is the exception here, pretty much all the other big players have virtually the same capabilities for the sensors, outputting basic data (cadence, an approximation of power, etc) via ANT+. fazua, mahle, brose, bikes from specialized and santa cruz and scott and giant etc etc.

as many of us have lamented, what very few of them do is output the same data using standard bluetooth protocols. it’s generally ANT+ for the open data and BLE for the proprietary app.

bosch just doesn’t seem to like to play with others at all!!!

Meanwhile, I have been able to solve the mystery behind encrypting the BLE channel for Specialized Mastermind e-bikes. Did you know the older Shimano motors could be just controlled by a Bluetooth app? Two friends of mine downloaded an app, a click, and voila! now they are riding U.S. Class 1 e-bikes in Poland. No dongle needed. No wonder Specialized has found it necessary to encrypt the BLE channel to avoid legal issues for the future... I'm very happy with the Specialized ANT+ capability!

 

[gpburdell]

bosch is the exception here, pretty much all the other big players have virtually the same capabilities for the sensors, outputting basic data (cadence, an approximation of power, etc) via ANT+. fazua, mahle, brose, bikes from specialized and santa cruz and scott and giant etc etc.

as many of us have lamented, what very few of them do is output the same data using standard bluetooth protocols. it’s generally ANT+ for the open data and BLE for the proprietary app.

bosch just doesn’t seem to like to play with others at all!!!

Yes, but Bosch being the exception is offset by their prevalence in a so many different ebikes.

Personally, I don't really care about BLE since I use a Garmin Edge for display and data collection and ANT+ does that just fine. If I were putting my phone on the handlebars then Bosch's closed-system would be less of an issue for me, and why it's probably not an issue for a lot of people.

 

[direwolf]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful feedback. Does anyone know anywhere in Southern California where I can demo a Turbo Vado SL? It seems to be out of stock everywhere. Alternatively, does anyone in the LA area want to let me try theirs? : ) I can let you hold onto my Ibis Hakka carbon gravel bike as security.

 

[mschwett]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful feedback. Does anyone know anywhere in Southern California where I can demo a Turbo Vado SL? It seems to be out of stock everywhere. Alternatively, does anyone in the LA area want to let me try theirs? : ) I can let you hold onto my Ibis Hakka carbon gravel bike as security.

there are size L at many places, specialized santa monica, south bay cycle, etc. what size do you want to ride?