First Impressions Vado 5 IGH Automatiq

[McCorby]

I realize that an automatic probably can do this downshifting, but I also want to be ready to resume my pedaling cadence if the opportunity to go should happen before a complete stop.

This scenario has not been an issue for me. The system is not only looking at your pedal cadence. I believe it is also looking at vehicle speed and takes both into account when determining the correct gear ratio. No disrespect, but people who think they know how it performs that have not had the opportunity to try one should spend some time with one before saying what it can and can’t do. I live in a relatively hilly area and it performs incredibly well. Starting, stopping, ascending, descending, accelerating, decelerating…..it really does just work. Is it perfect in every scenario? Probably not, but it’s pretty darn good! Try one before writing off what it can and can’t do.

Now, if you like to adjust your cadence throughout your ride versus maintaining a fixed cadence, then a manual option probably makes more sense.

 

[WildPaul]

This scenario has not been an issue for me. The system is not only looking at your pedal cadence. I believe it is also looking at vehicle speed and takes both into account when determining the correct gear ratio. No disrespect, but people who think they know how it performs that have not had the opportunity to try one should spend some time with one before saying what it can and can’t do. I live in a relatively hilly area and it performs incredibly well. Starting, stopping, ascending, descending, accelerating, decelerating…..it really does just work. Is it perfect in every scenario? Probably not, but it’s pretty darn good! Try one before writing off what it can and can’t do.

Now, if you like to adjust your cadence throughout your ride versus maintaining a fixed cadence, then a manual option probably makes more sense.

I concur. The enviolo automatiq feels like it’s basically reading my mind and magically in the right gear like 95% of the time. I would say that the only time it feels like it’s not quite right is starting from a standstill, where it feels like it stays in a lower gear a bit too long (making it feel like the pedaling is too easy/powered) before starting to upshift, if that makes sense.

One of my favorite automatiq sensations is feeling (or not feeling, actually!) the drivetrain seamlessly/smoothly downshift whenever I meet an uphill grade, or vice versa on the other side of the hill, all while I simply maintain the same cadence and power. It feels like magic!

 

[AvalancheRun]

I concur. The enviolo automatiq feels like it’s basically reading my mind and magically in the right gear like 95% of the time. I would say that the only time it feels like it’s not quite right is starting from a standstill, where it feels like it stays in a lower gear a bit too long (making it feel like the pedaling is too easy/powered) before starting to upshift, if that makes sense.

One of my favorite automatiq sensations is feeling (or not feeling, actually!) the drivetrain seamlessly/smoothly downshift whenever I meet an uphill grade, or vice versa on the other side of the hill, all while I simply maintain the same cadence and power. It feels like magic!

This was my experience testing the Vado 5.0 Automatiq. It was pretty much perfect no matter what scenario it was in. Random hill climbs, descents, switching speeds, etc. were seamless.

Specialized was really smart to spec the Automatiq, in my opinion. The manual version on our Gazelles is not without flaws. The shifters can be stiff, and do not want to give you much gear changing ability while pedaling. I’ve read that the automatiq might have an easier time adjusting the gearing because it’s right on the hub, as opposed to having to move two brake lines attached to the manual shifter on the handlebars.

I would have upgraded to the Automatiq already if any of our LBSs had experience retrofitting one. Are you using a Cliq Pro controller?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

We are at the classic "auto vs manual car transmission" debate Either has its own pros and cons, provided both systems work properly.

I'm so glad sefutau has found a resolution to his issues! It proves again having a qualified LBS is a must!

 

[scrambler]

The shifters can be stiff, and do not want to give you much gear changing ability while pedaling. I’ve read that the automatiq might have an easier time adjusting the gearing because it’s right on the hub, as opposed to having to move two brake lines attached to the manual shifter on the handlebars.

Yes the manual shifter can be sensitive to its adjustment.
This is one benefit of the electronic shifting regardless of the preference for automatic or manual.

 

[McCorby]

I would say that the only time it feels like it’s not quite right is starting from a standstill, where it feels like it stays in a lower gear a bit too long (making it feel like the pedaling is too easy/powered) before starting to upshift, if that makes sense.

Have you tried adjusting the “Start After Stop” parameter in the Enviolo app? Maybe that will help.

 

[Sefutau2020]

We are at the classic "auto vs manual car transmission" debate Either has its own pros and cons, provided both systems work properly.

I'm so glad sefutau has found a resolution to his issues! It proves again having a qualified LBS is a must!

Yes, and absolute must. This drivetrain is butter smooth....

 

[scrambler]

SECOND UPDATE:

I'm thrilled to share that the woes with my Vado 5 IGH have finally been rectified. Taking the bike to a different shop proved to be a game-changer, highlighting the disparities in assembly quality between the two shops.

The first shop's lack of expertise became apparent when the second shop, without going into specifics, uncovered a series of issues. Interestingly, the second shop chose not to disclose details, perhaps to avoid further criticism of the initial bike shop that mishandled the assembly.

One of the major problems I encountered - the inability to adjust my cadence via the Specialized app - has been successfully resolved. This feature now functions seamlessly. Additionally, the long-standing issue of pedals failing to engage during downhill rides has been resolved, significantly improving the overall riding experience.

Today's ride was nothing short of exceptional. I find the Automatiq feature commendable, particularly for commuters seeking a hassle-free experience. For them, it's simply a matter of getting on the bike and riding - no complexities. However, as a rider who tends to adopt a faster and more aggressive style, I personally favor the manual mode when using the Cliq Pro Controller. Having the ability to handpick my gears adds an extra layer of enjoyment to my rides.

Another interesting observation that I've made today, which seems to resonate with other riders in this forum, is that the 90nm Brose motor doesn't exhibit a substantial difference in power compared to my Vado 4 equipped with a chain/cassette and 70nm motor. Based on my analysis, the Eco setting of 35/35 on the Vado 4 is akin to the Vado 5's Eco mode at 25/25. Of course, this is a subjective assessment. When it comes to Sport mode, the Vado 4 at 100/40 feels remarkably speedy. Consequently, I've set the Vado 5 IGH's Sport mode to 100/50, yielding a similar, if not slightly milder, sensation compared to the Vado 4. But, when I switch the Vado 5 to Turbo mode, it truly takes off. It's possible that the motor might require some time to fully break in, but overall, I remain thoroughly content with this purchase thus far.

Any interaction issue between the Specialized control and the manual shifter?

Do you have to switch the Hub to manual at every restart?

 

[Sefutau2020]

Any interaction issue between the Specialized control and the manual shifter?

Do you have to switch the Hub to manual at every restart?

No issues at all with the controller as it relates to the Specialized app. Yes, I have to place it in manual mode at every restart, and this appears to be the way it is configured from Enviolo. I am just happy to have the option. Thanks...

 

[scrambler]

If only Enviolo had a manual / automatic switch on the shifter....
I cant fathom why they missed that.

 

[Kayakguy]

This scenario has not been an issue for me. The system is not only looking at your pedal cadence. I believe it is also looking at vehicle speed and takes both into account when determining the correct gear ratio. No disrespect, but people who think they know how it performs that have not had the opportunity to try one should spend some time with one before saying what it can and can’t do. I live in a relatively hilly area and it performs incredibly well. Starting, stopping, ascending, descending, accelerating, decelerating…..it really does just work. Is it perfect in every scenario? Probably not, but it’s pretty darn good! Try one before writing off what it can and can’t do.

Now, if you like to adjust your cadence throughout your ride versus maintaining a fixed cadence, then a manual option probably makes more sense.

Actually, I like to use the gears to maintain my preferred cadence (about 75 rpm; slow, I admit, but I'm an old guy). I don't set the cadence in any kind of app; I have internalized it, and find that cadence works most efficiently for me, as I shift up or down gears to keep it.

 

[McCorby]

Actually, I like to use the gears to maintain my preferred cadence (about 75 rpm; slow, I admit, but I'm an old guy). I don't set the cadence in any kind of app; I have internalized it, and find that cadence works most efficiently for me, as I shift up or down gears to keep it.

…..and that’s great! All the more power to you!
The only reason I replied to your previous post was because you seemed to imply that the automatiq would not be in an acceptable gear ratio in the scenario where someone is coming to a stop but then decides not to stop. From actual riding experience, this is not true. The system appears to have two speed sensors that measure pedal cadence and wheel speed. It knows if you are or aren’t pedaling and if you are or aren’t moving, and adjusts the gear ratio accordingly to maintain your desired cadence. So when coming to a stop, it doesn’t downshift all the way down to a stopped gear ratio if you’re still moving, even if you aren’t pedaling. It’s almost like magic!
You said:
“Same thing with stopping. As one must do with a derailleur, I like to shift down to the gear I'll be wanting to start in when I can go again. I realize that an automatic probably can do this downshifting, but I also want to be ready to resume my pedaling cadence if the opportunity to go should happen before a complete stop.”

 

[WildPaul]

This was my experience testing the Vado 5.0 Automatiq. It was pretty much perfect no matter what scenario it was in. Random hill climbs, descents, switching speeds, etc. were seamless.

Specialized was really smart to spec the Automatiq, in my opinion. The manual version on our Gazelles is not without flaws. The shifters can be stiff, and do not want to give you much gear changing ability while pedaling. I’ve read that the automatiq might have an easier time adjusting the gearing because it’s right on the hub, as opposed to having to move two brake lines attached to the manual shifter on the handlebars.

I would have upgraded to the Automatiq already if any of our LBSs had experience retrofitting one. Are you using a Cliq Pro controller?

I thought about getting the Cliq Pro manual controller, but I have yet to encounter a situation (biking hills in Connecticut and also flats in Texas) where I ever feel the need to manually control shifting anymore, especially now that I’m used to riding the automatiq. When I first got the bike I was occasionally adjusting cadence on the TCD if I felt like pedaling faster or slower, but now that I’ve become familiar with how the automatiq works and feels, I’ve somehow learned to “control” the desired gear ratio by adjusting how much power I’m putting in with my legs relative to the current speed and assist level, without even needing to really think about it.

This is kind of hard to describe, but I’ve heard multiple people talk about this same thing with the automatiq… how it “takes a few weeks to get the hang of it” and then you just stop thinking about it. I believe this is what they’re talking about. There’s this sort of subconscious technique involved, that once learned - lets me basically control the gear ratio by changing the power/force I’m pushing into the pedals. If I want the bike in a higher or lower gear, I simply add or remove some power with my legs at the right time, and the bike instantly starts adjusting towards my desired pace. This is what I was talking about when I used the word “magic” to describe it above. Now that I’ve gotten the hang of it, it seems as though the combination of torque sensor + automatiq software basically reads my intent via my legs, if that makes sense.

Speaking of cadence: when I was first getting used to the bike (and getting back into biking after a 20-year hiatus!) I would typically ride in either of the slowest two cadence settings. Now that I’m more used to the bike and my bike fitness is coming back, I’m just leaving it in “Standard” cadence 100% of the time now and it’s perfect for me (with my average speed being between 20-25mph, mainly because that’s where I’m most comfortable.)

Paul

 

[WildPaul]

Have you tried adjusting the “Start After Stop” parameter in the Enviolo app? Maybe that will help.

View attachment 161501

Oh my! I have not tried that yet, and it looks like EXACTLY the setting I’m looking for! I’ll give it a try and report back. And thank you! I love this forum

 

[Sefutau2020]

LAST UPDATE on my Vado 5 IGH:

I want to inform you that I have come to the decision to return the Vado 5 IGH bicycle. Unfortunately, the bike's performance did not meet my expectations, as I value a dynamic and speedy riding experience, which the Vado 5 IGH failed to provide. Having previously logged 3500 miles on my Vado 4, I possess a deep understanding of its performance capabilities. I utilize a Garmin Edge 840 to meticulously track all of my rides, which consist of daily rides covering three different paved trails per week.

Despite the Vado 5 IGH boasting a more potent motor compared to both my Trek 8s and Vado 4, it consistently exhibited slower performance across all metrics. To illustrate, consider a typical 53-mile ride on the Vado 4 using the ECO mode, where I would maintain an average speed of 16.1 to 16.5 mph. Conversely, the same route on the Vado IGH resulted in significantly slower speeds, clocking 14.9 and 15.1 on two separate days. In fairness, it's important to mention that the Vado 4's ECO setting was configured at 35/35, while the Vado 5 IGH was set at 25/25. Despite the Vado 5's supposedly enhanced motor, I only experienced a sensation of speed when engaging Turbo mode. This contrasts sharply with my experience on the Vado 4, where I never felt the need to use the Turbo setting due to its inherent speed. The Vado 4 in Sport mode always felt fast!

Furthermore, the bicycle necessitated repeated power cycling to eliminate the persistent flashing "%01" on the TCU. Regrettably, the charging process for the bike exhibited abnormalities, as it failed to indicate the accurate initial charging level and did not incrementally display battery progress towards full capacity.

The new LBS offered to continue to work with Specialized for a solution, but I just yearn for the experience of the Vado 4 and Vado 4 SL. Those bikes were perfect from the beginning, and never exhibited any issues at all.

It's worth noting that Specialized has altered their business approach, eliminating the opportunity for me to test the bike before purchase. This shift in their marketing and direct-to-consumer sales model is a significant downside. Had I been afforded the chance to test the IGH model prior to purchasing, I might have avoided this predicament altogether, thus sparing everyone involved the ensuing complications. This experience has certainly taught me a valuable lesson, marking the first instance where I've had to return a bike.

Despite this situation, I still maintain my appreciation for Specialized. In fact, I am considering placing an order for a non-IGH bike from their selection in the coming days, as I explore the available options on their website. My hope is that sharing my experience will benefit others in a positive manner.

 

[CLR]

You have to do what’s right for you, not for us!

Out of curiosity, why did you replace your Vado 4? Seems like you already had the perfect bike for your needs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's worth noting that Specialized has altered their business approach, eliminating the opportunity for me to test the bike before purchase. This shift in their marketing and direct-to-consumer sales model is a significant downside. Had I been afforded the chance to test the IGH model prior to purchasing, I might have avoided this predicament altogether, thus sparing everyone involved the ensuing complications.

True.
Specialized in my area offers demo rides on many models of bikes and e-bikes but testing of the Automatiq models is not possible.

A good long demo ride tells you the truth, and makes you buy a given e-bike on the spot. Or, not to buy it. (That's why I bought a Vado SL but did not buy a Creo).

 

[Sefutau2020]

You have to do what’s right for you, not for us!

Out of curiosity, why did you replace your Vado 4? Seems like you already had the perfect bike for your needs.

I have always wanted the Vado 5 because of the 90nm motor. I have a Trek 8s and a Giant Fastroad, and like to ride FAST. I think the IGH is great for commuting, makes sense, but for those of us who like the catch the wind....the cassette/derailleur wins. Just my two cents.

 

[xsp6000]

First Impressions Vado 5 IGH

I took my bike out for the first time two days ago, and I must say, the experience left me quite disappointed. Despite recalibrating the bike twice, my initial ride through the neighborhood was far from satisfying. The internally geared hub (IGH) system failed to impress me in several ways. It appears that no matter what I do, the bike consistently picks the wrong gear. Even on flat, smooth stretches of road, the gear shifts feel erratic and unpredictable. When I encounter a hill, I can't help but notice that the bike never seems to find the optimal low gear for proper assistance. And don't get me started on downhill pedaling – it's as if the bike simply refuses to engage, forcing me to coast and wait until it deigns to kick back in.

Interestingly, my local bike shop (LBS) mentioned that I'm their first customer to try out the IGH system. It seems they're learning on the go just as much as I am. According to them, it took a whopping fifteen attempts to get the calibration right. I've already reached out to Specialized's Rider Care Support for help, but I can't shake off this initial feeling of disappointment with the current version. I can't help but think that a manual gear option, like the throttle mechanism seen in other IGH models, would greatly improve the situation.

During my second ride, I discovered that the ECO mode suits my riding style perfectly – it offers ample power. Although I briefly switched to Sport mode, I noticed an immediate burst of power. Comparing the Vado 4's 70nm to the Vado 5's 90nm, I can now attest that there is indeed a discernible difference. My experience with the Vado 5's ECO mode feels akin to the Trek 8s's (which I also own) 140% tour setting.

Upon closer examination, I realized that during my third ride, the bike never shifted beyond 4th gear, despite having 9 gears at its disposal. Recalibrating multiple times yielded no change in this frustrating behavior. In my quest for a solution, I contacted Specialized and learned that there is a manual shifting alternative for the IGH Automatiq – the Enviolo Cliq Pro Controller. I promptly ordered one, which should arrive within the next week or so. At this point, I'm left with no choice but to entrust my bike to the LBS for a resolution or potentially a refund. While I appreciate the quietness of the belt drive, I can't help but feel let down by this aspect of the Specialized offering. I'll continue to put more miles on the bike, and I promise to return with an update once I have more to share.

Como 5.0 IGH
Bought a Como 5.0 IGH for my wife because she always struggled with the gears on her previous bike. Another problem now is that the pedaling speed is just a little too high for her and I have already come into contact with Specialized ridercare a few times. This can possibly be solved via software, unfortunately they do not want to change this! then I decided to purchase a "Cliq Pro" external button and now she can easily adjust her pedaling speed, but you have to do this every time you switch on the bike. It would have been simpler if Specialized listened to the demand of their buyers. ! Furthermore, it is a fantastic bike to ride, even on hills of 20%, the Enviolo does its job well. The only pity is that the slowest setting of the setting is 65 rpm and if this had been 60 rpm it would have been a top bike for her!

 

[scrambler]

Yeah, it does sound like they are keeping the minimum pedaling speed a bit high...