Yamaha Mid Drive Motors
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Browneye
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FlatSix911
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Here is a great video review of the new PW-X2 motor. 
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
Don't need the video. Unrestricted PW-X2 can reach 57 km/h on the flat on a bike with downhill tyres...
That video demonstrates more about the benefits of advertising than the real improvements between pwx1 and pwx2.
For a start...he's reproduced the yahadvert comparing the pw ( non x) ratchet to the pwx2 - there was no change in these between pwx1 and 2
What did change was the high cadence support, unfortunately we didn't see comparison graphs. As someone who had a pwx1 replaced by a pwx2 , I can confirm thus was the biggest improvement ( at least for me) . Compare these historic torque graphs from 2018 to the torque / power graph they showed
Old pwx1
vs higher cadence support of pwx2
The other improvement was noise - the pwx2 us a LOT les growly ,
For a start...he's reproduced the yahadvert comparing the pw ( non x) ratchet to the pwx2 - there was no change in these between pwx1 and 2
What did change was the high cadence support, unfortunately we didn't see comparison graphs. As someone who had a pwx1 replaced by a pwx2 , I can confirm thus was the biggest improvement ( at least for me) . Compare these historic torque graphs from 2018 to the torque / power graph they showed
Old pwx1
vs higher cadence support of pwx2
The other improvement was noise - the pwx2 us a LOT les growly ,
Mike TowpathTraveler
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2016 Haibike Full FatSix.....Yamaha PW with Pear Tune speed tuner. 12,200+ miles since new. Not one lick of ebike drive train or battery problem whatsoever.
FlatSix911
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Good to hear about the reliability of your Yamaha PW drive... you have a well-outfitted bike with impressive mileage!
I hope to have the same experience with my 2018 BH.
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Mike TowpathTraveler
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Thanks, FlatSix! Right back atcha, that's a nicely sorted BH. A regret I have is not jumping in on those closeout BH's that CL had cause we won't likely be seeing prices like that anytime in the near future. Having looked over Bikeman 24's BH (just like yours, PWX, dual suspension, etc), I got the impression that the bike was right up there on par with the Haibike. You'll get great service and mileage out of yours, for that I have no doubt.Good to hear about the reliability of your Yamaha PW drive.
You have a well-outfitted bike with impressive mileage!
I hope to have the same experience with my 2018 BH.
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Ravi Kempaiah
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- Halifax
Yamaha PW-X and PWX2 are pretty great!
They offer instant and very smooth assist.
Out of all the mid-drives, Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Bafang, Yamaha - in my opinion, Yamaha PW_X and PW-X2 are extremely efficient.
I wish they offered a 28mph motor and 750whr battery or a dual battery option for OEMs.
It would be fantastic to build a bike with the new PW_X2 45 motor + Gates belt drive + Rohloff combo.
They offer instant and very smooth assist.
Out of all the mid-drives, Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Bafang, Yamaha - in my opinion, Yamaha PW_X and PW-X2 are extremely efficient.
I wish they offered a 28mph motor and 750whr battery or a dual battery option for OEMs.
It would be fantastic to build a bike with the new PW_X2 45 motor + Gates belt drive + Rohloff combo.
FlatSix911
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- Silicon Valley
Ravi, thanks to you for your Yamaha recommendation when I first got into EMTBs.
The PW-X motor has been great to ride and has been trouble-free and very efficient.
FYI only, Yamaha is now offering a 600 Wh integrated multi-location battery to OEMs.
BATTERY & CHARGER - e-Bike Systems | Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd. (yamaha-motor.com)
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It's interesting, the reason I didn't upgrade to a 2021 trance this year is because of the extra weight ( including the 625 wh battery)
nb Giant DO offer a plug in accessory energy pac to extend range when needed
In 3 years with my 500 wh driving a pwx, I've NEVER run below 10% and rarely get below 50%. But my bike is 25 kph assist restricted, which might explain why I don't desire extra?
Ravi Kempaiah
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- Halifax
Weight is certainly an important factor for MTB'ing and the designers need to weigh in weight vs. performance very carefully.
500Whr is good for a couple of hours of trail riding.
But, 500Whr is the MINIMUM needed for range anxiety-free commuting.
750whr is better. I used to commute 50km each way on my Stromer and I had to charge at both ends. I know many people who do 25km each way and they would certainly appreciate 750Whr.
Not for most of the world.
If assistance is limited to 25 kph , we easily get 75 k of commuting out of a 500 wh battery . It's not until you start riding up mountains for fun that range drops below that.
But if you are commuting 50 k each way I presume you're not wandering along at 25 kph for 4 hours a day? But that's further than most people commute by car per day! ( 35,000 km a year? or even 25,000 if you have weekends off ?) I used to do this by motorbike before moving to a lovely country town where work us 3.5 km from home....
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
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- Mazovia, PL
It also depends @PDoz on how the rider's legs strong are. For my travels, 600 Wh is the absolute minimum. And I often support it with a spare battery.
Do you often ride in the rain? In the cold? I presume not.
See my latest trip data. It was only 87 km but I was riding in the rain for more than 3 hours net, 4 hours net total, more than 5 hours outside. I wouldn't ride that without two 600 W batteries. Observe the average speed, too.
(If I drove my car instead, I would have covered the same distance, as I was riding purely with traffic).
Do you often ride in the rain? In the cold? I presume not.
See my latest trip data. It was only 87 km but I was riding in the rain for more than 3 hours net, 4 hours net total, more than 5 hours outside. I wouldn't ride that without two 600 W batteries. Observe the average speed, too.
(If I drove my car instead, I would have covered the same distance, as I was riding purely with traffic).
Ravi Kempaiah
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- Halifax
Unfortunately, the distances in the US are much farther than the EU or even Australia.
A typical commute is 10 miles. There are people who have 5-mile commutes and also some who commute 80 miles (130km) by car.
When I did a 50km each way commute, my average speed was about 37kmph on wide shoulder roads. I was spending 3 hours on the bike, at least 3 out of 5 working days.
An E-bike can replace a car if the commute distance is manageable i.e., < 20 miles each way. That's about roughly 2hrs spent on bike every day. It effectively replaces the need to go to the gym for cardio or leg conditioning. Anything more, it can be quite taxing physically. It still can be done 2 to 3 times a week.
When it comes to commuting, a little extra [Whr] is never an issue. A little less, on the other hand, can be tricky.
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On a side note,
Yamaha is a very conservative company somewhat similar to Toyota. They don't believe in fancy displays, aggressive changes year over year. Also, I believe they are focusing mostly on the EU market and the Japanese market. They have a US presence under their own brand. It is a very tricky situation because any OEM who intends to use Yamaha motor for their products will be competing directly against Yamaha. So, they would think twice about that. Imagine if Shimano or Bosch started selling e-bikes directly under their own name ?!!?
Shimano makes hubs, cassettes, chains, brakes, motors, and batteries. It's not difficult for them to make good frames and sell E-bikes. I don't think they would do that.
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pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
Damn @Ravi Kempaiah, that was a serious commute!
I had to google it and you're right (of course!), Americans commute on average almost 26 km versus us Australians commuting 16 km.
Wonder why that is? We certainly don't lack suburban sprawl here. A couple of factors off the top of my head: our highways systems don't hold a candle to yours, and I'm not aware of our cities being quite as racially segregated as yours either. Both those could be factors pushing people further out.
You got me wondering though: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/commuters-how-far-is-your-commute-one-way.39955/
I had to google it and you're right (of course!), Americans commute on average almost 26 km versus us Australians commuting 16 km.
Wonder why that is? We certainly don't lack suburban sprawl here. A couple of factors off the top of my head: our highways systems don't hold a candle to yours, and I'm not aware of our cities being quite as racially segregated as yours either. Both those could be factors pushing people further out.
You got me wondering though: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/commuters-how-far-is-your-commute-one-way.39955/
That surprised me as well!
It feels like any time we head for the big smoke there's a slow moving carpark from about 50 km east ..... so I'd thought they were all commuting. I guess there must be a lot of people who live closer to work or work from home?
I ride in the rain (for fun ) when I get the chance, but sadly we don't get a lot of rain around here. Cold? I wish!!!! But temperature is a good point - anytime it's hotter outside my body than inside , I start worrying about battery range - no way am I going to pump pedals up hills without assistance in 40c plus temps!
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