When there's no dealer...

[pxpaulx]

Both of you, time out!

I'll say this much about my new haibike, it seems about 30 percent more efficient based on a first ride. Highly unscientific, but if I ride 5 miles around my neighborhood on my evo it uses about 20 percent of the battery. A similar distance was only 14 percent on the haibike. Maybe I'll do some formal test at some point. I'll also say that the haibike top speed and overall speed is slightly slower. Again, unscientific.

 

[Donny]

There seem to be three groups. The old or unfit folks who want a real helping hand. The young and fit who want a multiplier type sensation, and the performance guys who are just exploring the limits of power, and may not be making bikes at some point. If the people who have plenty of battery at the end of a long ride are that fit, why are they using a motor. At least I need the frickin' motor.

And that also goes back to what I think about these things. I'm in my 40's and I'm not anywhere close to the shape I was in years ago. Add several back, leg, knee, shoulder, and neck injuries into the mix and the last time I used a standard pedal bike for any real distance, I was in physical pain to the point that it wasn't worth riding anymore. If I can have a motor to assist me when I *need* it, that's what I am after. My goal is to still pedal as much as possible and maybe even just turn the motor off altogether unless I need it (the bike I am getting has a toggle on the grip). That way battery life should also be kept to a premium I would think.

 

[Jim123]

As ebikes get more popular the fact of most Americans being overweight will make range be a bigger issue. Radpower has a range calculator, based on my weight with throttle only, I could go 16 miles. Range could improve about 10% a year in batteries. But I live next to a beautiful lake that is 35 miles away. If I am to make my dream range of 70 total miles, with my level of conditioning, I am also going to have to lose weight. It would take decades before batteries are strong enough, in normal configurations.

 

[George S.]

Just some anecdotal evidence here, but I've ran out of battery a handful of times, and it was a real let-down. Luckily, it was usually when I was near home. I have a 417Wh battery on a 500W (nominal) ebike. I'd strongly prefer an ebike with a 700-1000Wh battery. I'm currently building one with ~700Wh and it should be ready to go in a month.

My bike's range is listed as being 25-35 miles, but really, it's more like 13-25 miles. I can take a 5 mile trip across San Francisco, and after the 5 miles home (and up a medium-grade hill), my battery is almost empty. Getting barely more than 10 miles on a charge is ridiculous.

If I rode a Haibike, there's no way I'd get anywhere near 50 miles of range on a charge, as I like to sit in higher pedal-assist modes and regularly ride above 20MPH.

If you are building I like the idea of a reserve battery:

http://lunacycle.com

 

[J.R.]

Both of you, time out!

I'll say this much about my new haibike, it seems about 30 percent more efficient based on a first ride. Highly unscientific, but if I ride 5 miles around my neighborhood on my evo it uses about 20 percent of the battery. A similar distance was only 14 percent on the haibike. Maybe I'll do some formal test at some point. I'll also say that the haibike top speed and overall speed is slightly slower. Again, unscientific.

Wow that range on the Evo doesn't sound good at all. I posted the following about my 2015 Evo 29'er:

While researching this bike and Easy Motion I did have concern for the range I might get with the EM29, due to BH estimates on range. I thought it odd that with the same motor and battery on the Cross, their estimates for range on the two were very different, with the Cross being much higher. I can now say for sure after 400 or so miles my concerns were unfounded. I've yet to use 50% of the 11.6 AH battery on a 20 mile ride, with a typical 20 mile ride coming in at around 45-48% with the temperature in the 40's Fahrenheit.



I also haven't run the battery dead, the longest ride I've done is 34 miles using 80% of the battery. I'm not sure how many miles remain in the last 20%, but I'm confident I could easily get 40 miles per charge and more on a warm summer day.

Most of my riding on this bike has been in the dry, in 30-50% PAS. I've tried all levels of assist (0-throttle, 30, 50, 70, 100%). Throttle reached 19.4 mph, with little torque for hills. I'm very happy with the speed and hill climbing ability of 30 or 50. With 30% I can easily cruise at 16-19 mph and 50% at 21+ mph on the paved flat. With 100% assist it's fairly easy to cruise on flat paved surface at 23.8 mph and if I dig in I can reach 25-26 mph, but I don't know for how long my legs could keep 26.

Above quote taken from this post: Evo 29'er, My New Bike

That continues to hold true since last October. That also includes elevation gains of >1000 ft. due to the mountainous foothills I live on. Now that the warmer weather has hit, I'm starting to see even better range. I'm looking forward to pushing the bike a few times to see what a max range will be.

 

[pxpaulx]

@J.R. I'm a big guy, chalk it up to that! Also, the snow is powering 2 motors, I've used evo mode and got better results (eco starts with the rear motor and uses the front at higher speed...independent of the boost ranges), but the echo mode tops out at 15mph, which is kinda boring. So, awd battery sucking mode it is for me...As long as I have the bike. Actually not in a rush to sell, I do like that it can get up towards 25mph.

 

[J.R.]

@J.R. I'm a big guy, chalk it up to that! Also, the snow is powering 2 motors, I've used evo mode and got better results (eco starts with the rear motor and uses the front at higher speed...independent of the boost ranges), but the echo mode tops out at 15mph, which is kinda boring. So, awd battery sucking mode it is for me...As long as I have the bike. Actually not in a rush to sell, I do like that it can get up towards 25mph.

Ahhh.... I didn't think of the 2wd. It's going to take me a little while to get used to that! I'd like to try one in the snow, sand and mud. Could be a lot of fun getting dirty I'd almost bet other brands will introduce 2wd models at Interbike this year. It could be interesting if they could mate and sync a geared front hub with a mid-drive. That would be power.

Congrats on the Hai's, pretty cool you have a live in (ebike) riding partner now too!

 

[Donny]

Ahhh.... I didn't think of the 2wd. It's going to take me a little while to get used to that! I'd like to try one in the snow, sand and mud. Could be a lot of fun getting dirty I'd almost bet other brands will introduce 2wd models at Interbike this year. It could be interesting if they could mate and sync a geared front hub with a mid-drive. That would be power.

Congrats on the Hai's, pretty cool you have a live in (ebike) riding partner now too!

True, but more motor power requires more electrical power to drive it and that brings us back to the battery issue, range, and weight issues. Again, I do not think of these things as being a substitute to a motorcycle or scooter or something along those lines, but many people seem to be doing so. I don't think that was the intent behind this technology, but I know everyone has their own views on that (which is fine). What I really see happening is that people are going to keep pushing the envelope on these things until the government steps in (like they have already done overseas) and heavily regulate it because people couldn't control themselves

 

[J.R.]

True, but more motor power requires more electrical power to drive it and that brings us back to the battery issue, range, and weight issues. Again, I do not think of these things as being a substitute to a motorcycle or scooter or something along those lines, but many people seem to be doing so. I don't think that was the intent behind this technology, but I know everyone has their own views on that (which is fine). What I really see happening is that people are going to keep pushing the envelope on these things until the government steps in (like they have already done overseas) and heavily regulate it because people couldn't control themselves

What we were commenting on was the efficiency and range of the three bike's systems in question. When a MC is needed I have a Harley for those duties. Having commuted through a number of Northeastern US winters, a 2WD ebike may be just the ticket I'd certainly give one a chance for a snowy commute or off road recreation.

 

[wren]

No dealer nearby and don't want to roll your own? What I have learned from reading this thread, and other research, is that mid-drive and a quality brand such as Easy Motion or Haibike purchased at a steep discount from Crazy Lenny is a smart way to go.

 

[pxpaulx]

@wren sounds like a solid place to start in my book.

 

[Donny]

What we were commenting on was the efficiency and range of the three bike's systems in question. When a MC is needed I have a Harley for those duties. Having commuted through a number of Northeastern US winters, a 2WD ebike may be just the ticket I'd certainly give one a chance for a snowy commute or off road recreation.

I totally understand that, but what I am getting at is that I keep seeing people saying they want bigger motors for more and more power. Forget about the practical issues that come along with that (again going back to batteries), but it's the simple fact that I think people are going to keep pushing this envelope and eventually someone (i.e. government) is going to notice and step in. Look at Europe, they are already limited to the size motors they can have and we're heading down the same road because people cannot be responsible with the technology. When it gets to the point that someone has a bicycle capable of doing the speed limit of cars, simply because they can do it, someone is going to notice and step in and ruin it for everyone else. That's all purely in my own personal opinion mind you and I don't mean offense to anyone. I love to tinker and mod as much as the next person, but there has to be some level of accountability with it

 

[George S.]

Oh, well. Eric Hicks started Luna Cycle a year ago and started selling cheap batteries. Then he was selling the more powerful BBSHD and some other high power stuff. Eric has a battery franchise, now, and no one knows what happens to high powered ebike motors. Eric changed the market. On the battery side, it's all good and he deserves to be rich and famous.

California says there is a 750 watt limit next year, and you have to label and lock down the motors. There is no shortage of regulations.

 

[Cameron Newland]

When it gets to the point that someone has a bicycle capable of doing the speed limit of cars, simply because they can do it, someone is going to notice and step in and ruin it for everyone else.

Those 60MPH ebikes have been around since at least 2012. Does anyone know when Stealth started selling high-speed ebikes?