What’s causing all the ebike and escooter battery fires?

[Solarcabin]

What’s causing all the ebike and escooter battery fires?​

What’s causing all the ebike and escooter battery fires?

In the last year lithium-ion battery fires have caught the attention of authorities in New York City. I take a look at the underlying causes.

thenextweb.com

• poor design
• assembly errors
• electrical shorting
• use of the wrong charger
• overcharging
• A damaged battery management system (BMS) causes overheating and inadequate cooling
• damage to the case.

Once a battery overheats, it can lead to a thermal reaction inside a battery. This is known as a thermal runway event. The reaction produces enough heat to cause adjacent battery cells to also catch fire or explode.

These fires happen incredibly quickly, and due to the self-sustaining process of thermal runaway, Lithium battery fires are also difficult to extinguish. They can leak toxic chemicals dangerous to people and pets.

Large batteries such as those used in Electric Vehicles can reignite hours or even days after the event, even after being extinguished. Fortunately, this is far less common in ebikes and escooters.

My opinion: I would really like to see a study of these Ebike battery fires to determine brand and type of battery and charger involved.

I suspect most of these fires are happening with cheap after market or DIY batteries that are not UL listed and using chargers not designed for that specific battery or trying to fast charge an ebike battery. Leaving the battery on the charger after charged or using a damaged battery is probably also a big contributing factor.

If you are using a battery that is not damaged and the charger supplied with that battery and the BMS is working correctly there should be little to no chance of a fire but I still take precautions and charge outside and only when I can monitor the battery and I disconnect the battery as soon as it is charged up. I am also in the habit of touching the battery while it is charging occasionally to see if it feels warm and I have a class 3 fire extinguisher close by just in case.

A lot of these fires seem to involve delivery ebikes that are using fast chargers and many are charging 2-3 batteries constantly for their work. The batteries never have a chance to cool down after being rode at full speed all day before they are being recharged. That is not typical use for most ebikers.

Your thoughts?

 

[Cowlitz]

Search can be your friend. This has been discussed before. However, I'll bite as I can cut and paste. There is discussion of new regulations in the future. This item is from a Gazelle page.

What does the regulatory future of the ebike look like? As responsible Gazelle owners we support a regulatory framework with safety its principal purpose. The first area of governmental oversight will be fire safety. On this matter one can be pleased with the decision to buy a premium brand like Gazelle. UL 2849 Certification will almost certainly be a requirement. Gazelle adopted the standard in 2014 through its partnership with Bosch. Of the 182 ebike brands being marketed, Gazelle was first of the 16 certified brands.

Yup, you’re reading that right. Less than 9% of brands, led by the Dutch fabrikant with the bounding yellow stag, currently meet fire safety standards. Last month the National Bike Dealers Association formally asked its membership to support the standard, advising them to contact their suppliers and manufacturers.

 

[sc00ter]

Electric Bike Action magazine just did a article on battery fires. I haven't read the article yet but I work around lith-ion batteries and we just got a fancy $16,000 battery locker to store them in. I remember those kid hover boards bursting into flames on a weekly basis, and vapes as well.

Remember that every product has a failure rate built into its production. No one wants to be part of that failure rate percentage, no matter how low or rare.

 

[jabberwocky]

Li-ion batteries don't handle mistreatment well. Companies who care about not being dragged into court typically build their batteries with a lot of care and safety (physical protection for the cells, short protection, good BMS, etc) and pair them to a charger that doesn't abuse the cells. The main issue is people wanting cheap, large capacity batteries (or just cheap batteries in general) which are being sourced from China from companies that will definitely cut corners if they can. Couple poor quality or mismatched cells with a cheap BMS and cheap construction with little QC and you're gonna get some batteries that go thermal runaway and burn something down.

 

[Solarcabin]

My opinion: I would really like to see a study of these Ebike battery fires to determine brand and type of battery and charger involved.

I suspect most of these fires are happening with cheap after market or DIY batteries that are not UL listed and using chargers not designed for that specific battery or trying to fast charge an ebike battery. Leaving the battery on the charger after charged or using a damaged battery is probably also a big contributing factor.

If you are using a battery that is not damaged and the charger supplied with that battery and the BMS is working correctly there should be little to no chance of a fire but I still take precautions and charge outside and only when I can monitor the battery and I disconnect the battery as soon as it is charged up. I am also in the habit of touching the battery while it is charging occasionally to see if it feels warm and I have a class 3 fire extinguisher close by just in case.

A lot of these fires seem to involve delivery ebikes that are using fast chargers and many are charging 2-3 batteries constantly for their work. The batteries never have a chance to cool down after being rode at full speed all day before they are being recharged. That is not typical use for most ebikers.

 

[newts]

Does anyone know of any battery fire in a Bosch or other name brand UL certified battery and charger?

 

[tomjasz]

Does anyone know of any battery fire in a Bosch or other name brand UL certified battery and charger?

ANY battery can be abused and catch fire. Even Bosch. Follow their standards and instructions and you’ll be safer than many others. UL ratings are a plus but not a warranty.

 

[newts]

ANY battery can be abused and catch fire. Even Bosch. Follow their standards and instructions and you’ll be safer than many others. UL ratings are a plus but not a warranty.

Sure it could if you crack it open or put it in a fire. My question is more to the normal use do the better quality and safety certified batteries and bikes have any real life fires? In the few cases of fires were they said or you could try to see what brand they have been the cheaper off brand packs from China or wheel conversion bikes.
I have googled and found e scooter fires, a conversion, and a 2 year old refurbished pack from a non brand.

 

[m@Robertson]

What’s causing all the ebike and escooter battery fires?​

What’s causing all the ebike and escooter battery fires?

In the last year lithium-ion battery fires have caught the attention of authorities in New York City. I take a look at the underlying causes.

thenextweb.com

• poor design
• assembly errors
• electrical shorting
• use of the wrong charger
• overcharging
• A damaged battery management system (BMS) causes overheating and inadequate cooling
• damage to the case.

Once a battery overheats, it can lead to a thermal reaction inside a battery. This is known as a thermal runway event. The reaction produces enough heat to cause adjacent battery cells to also catch fire or explode.

These fires happen incredibly quickly, and due to the self-sustaining process of thermal runaway, Lithium battery fires are also difficult to extinguish. They can leak toxic chemicals dangerous to people and pets.

Large batteries such as those used in Electric Vehicles can reignite hours or even days after the event, even after being extinguished. Fortunately, this is far less common in ebikes and escooters.

My opinion: I would really like to see a study of these Ebike battery fires to determine brand and type of battery and charger involved.

I suspect most of these fires are happening with cheap after market or DIY batteries that are not UL listed and using chargers not designed for that specific battery or trying to fast charge an ebike battery. Leaving the battery on the charger after charged or using a damaged battery is probably also a big contributing factor.

If you are using a battery that is not damaged and the charger supplied with that battery and the BMS is working correctly there should be little to no chance of a fire but I still take precautions and charge outside and only when I can monitor the battery and I disconnect the battery as soon as it is charged up. I am also in the habit of touching the battery while it is charging occasionally to see if it feels warm and I have a class 3 fire extinguisher close by just in case.

A lot of these fires seem to involve delivery ebikes that are using fast chargers and many are charging 2-3 batteries constantly for their work. The batteries never have a chance to cool down after being rode at full speed all day before they are being recharged. That is not typical use for most ebikers.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are you plagiarized the article, word for word in a place where it was not immediately obvious what you were doing. Further, you snipped out only the portion that supports your agenda and ignored the remainder which contradicts your conclusions. In fact, anyone who actually reads the article will see it is talking about something else entirely. This exact sort of deceptive practice is something you have been caught at in the past. Originally it seemed you were just sloppy and inattentive. Now that a pattern is forming though, this appears to be deliberate; perhaps banking on short attention spans and an inherent belief of people that the well-spoken person is not being disingenuous.

You didn't even bother to correct the errors (psst... its "thermal runaway" not "thermal runway"). I have copied the post in its entirety above in case the OP revises it as he has in the past when caught out like this.

At bottom I have copied a screen shot of your plagiarized section, plus some of what you didn't copy, which starts to go off in that entirely different direction than you want to. If people are so inclined, I encourage them to read what was actually being written about. It is not what the OP is talking about at all. And remember this happened. Again.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

A couple of things: I'd like to see some real stats on battery fires. There are a lot of anecdotes about bike battery fires and of course they can happen. I've done a little bit of internet research though. That and $4.50 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks -- I am absolutely not claiming any expertise, but for batteries from top-of-the-line retailers my impression is that a battery fire is about as much to worry about as being struck by lightning.

Think about how many Lithium batteries are in e-bikes, scooters, smartphones, cordless power tools, etc., etc, etc. How many people handle all those batteries with kid gloves? How many stories have you heard about ebike battery fires? The ratio is way, way, over a million to one.

I'm not saying ignore the issue. Don't buy no-name batteries off of e-bay, handle with care, don't spend a lot of time worrying.

Second, the OP is gone, so no more worries about road apples and other nonsense from him.

TT

 

[tomjasz]

Sure it could if you crack it open or put it in a fire. My question is more to the normal use do the better quality and safety certified batteries and bikes have any real life fires? In the few cases of fires were they said or you could try to see what brand they have been the cheaper off brand packs from China or wheel conversion bikes.
I have googled and found e scooter fires, a conversion, and a 2 year old refurbished pack from a non brand.

Google is hardly a definitive source. Again, ANY abused battery is a potential risk. Period. Due diligence is appropriate with ALL li ion batteries. Don’t be likked by a Google search.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

Google is hardly a definitive source. Again, ANY abused battery is a potential risk. Period. Due diligence is appropriate with ALL li ion batteries. Don’t be likked by a Google search.

That's pretty much what I said.

TT

 

[newts]

That's pretty much what I said.

TT

You guys are still missing my point. I am not drawing a conclusion based on a 5 minute google search. I am asking if anyone has ever experienced or heard of a battery fire from a UL/CE certified brand. I want to gather some anecdotal evidence.

Yes I do have a belief that the name brands are safer. They have to be they are a big legal target with deep pockets. And they can charge extra for the engineering, fuses, smarter BMS, and temperature sensors. Also yes, any lithium battery should be treated carefully. I charge my bikes outside (in a separate bike shed) or when I can keep an eye on them.

 

[J.R.]

You guys are still missing my point. I am not drawing a conclusion based on a 5 minute google search. I am asking if anyone has ever experienced or heard of a battery fire from a UL/CE certified brand. I want to gather some anecdotal evidence.

Yes I do have a belief that the name brands are safer. They have to be they are a big legal target with deep pockets. And they can charge extra for the engineering, fuses, smarter BMS, and temperature sensors. Also yes, any lithium battery should be treated carefully. I charge my bikes outside (in a separate bike shed) or when I can keep an eye on them.

I think you'll have to get into fire investigator's reports to find that sort of detail. Possibly the Consumer Product Safety Commission compiles that type of data. Public reports or news will just say ebike with little detail.

Buy the best you can and use best practices for use, charging and storage.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

You guys are still missing my point. I am not drawing a conclusion based on a 5 minute google search. I am asking if anyone has ever experienced or heard of a battery fire from a UL/CE certified brand. I want to gather some anecdotal evidence.

J.R. is right. You'll hear about e-bike battery fires very occasionally but you will have a very hard time finding out what brand or certification the batteries involved had.

Based on no evidence, I'd bet a lot of the NYC couriers' batteries discussed above involved cheap Chinese/e-bay/homemade batteries held together with bubble gum scraped off NYC or Hangzhou sidewalks, but there's no way (that I've discovered so far) to know. Best guess, the Consumer Product Safety Commission data doesn't contain that kind of info in many cases.

TT

 

[tomjasz]

CC

I am asking if anyone has ever experienced or heard of a battery fire from a UL/CE certified brand. I want to gather some anecdotal evidence.

Yes. Several times in 6 years of selling and supporting batteries. People do dumb things. ANY damaged battery can be a bomb.

 

[Kayakguy]

Google is hardly a definitive source. Again, ANY abused battery is a potential risk. Period. Due diligence is appropriate with ALL li ion batteries. Don’t be likked by a Google search.

I found that pocketing an alkaline AA battery can be risky--if you have a pocket full of change. The metal coins may contact the electrodes on the battery and create a short. The result is a pocket full of hot money. No damage or injury resulted, but sort of alarming, anyhow. I am careful not to do that anymore.

 

[EZ Scooter Repair Shop]

The cause of these fires is simple. The Max Continuous Discharge Current of the BMS is too high for the type of cell used to make the battery and the BMS does not have a high temperature sensor. Lithium batteries have a safe operational temperature between 0 degrees and 140 degrees. Normal Cell Operating Temperature is below 75 degrees Fahrenheit and the BMS should shut down and not exceed a Maximum of 133 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[SDGuitarMan]

Have there been any actual explosions from batteries that are enclosed inside the bike frame? One of my other hobbies is high-end flashlight collecting and there have been quite a few incidents where a battery ignited inside the flashlight and because it was enclosed it ended up blowing up like a grenade.

 

[tomjasz]

Have there been any actual explosions from batteries that are enclosed inside the bike frame? One of my other hobbies is high-end flashlight collecting and there have been quite a few incidents where a battery ignited inside the flashlight and because it was enclosed it ended up blowing up like a grenade.

A frame enclosure won't mitigate issues with a poorly built battery just because it's in the frame. Maybe it'll be less apt to suffer external damage in a crash.