What do you HATE about your fat tires?

[rtp]

What size tyres in fat category? Burn Rubber Robbie.!!!!

Eh, some flex in there, but 'plus' is ~2.8-3.x, 'fat' are somewhere high 3.x on up. Personally I consider anything 3.8-4.0" or wider as fat tires.

As far as the 'what do you hate,' I never had any self-steering on my juggernaut 4.0" fat tire bike, but I rented an M500 overseas with 4.2-4.4" wide tires, and definitely felt some self-steering. Wasn't terrible but also wasn't super pleasant when it happened. Didn't have a pump to see if could correct via pressure, though.

 

[m@Robertson]

Eh, some flex in there, but 'plus' is ~2.8-3.x, 'fat' are somewhere high 3.x on up. Personally I consider anything 3.8-4.0" or wider as fat tires.

As far as the 'what do you hate,' I never had any self-steering on my juggernaut 4.0" fat tire bike, but I rented an M500 overseas with 4.2-4.4" wide tires, and definitely felt some self-steering. Wasn't terrible but also wasn't super pleasant when it happened. Didn't have a pump to see if could correct via pressure, though.

Every time I have had self-steer, it has turned out I had pressure too low. However, sometimes you want low pressure (like riding beach dunes) so if the tire self-steers at lower pressure maybe thats a dealbreaker. I have found no way to predict which tire off the shelf will do this and which won't. My Vee Snowshoe XLs and Snow Avalanches, and Chaoyang/Arisun Bid Daddy/Big Fattys don't have an issue going waaaay down. My Origin8 Supercells in 30 tpi... same story. Origin8 Supercells in 120 tpi reportedly self-steer no matter how high you jack up the air pressure. So... thats the same tire just a different casing.

I've had more successes than failures in dealing with self-steering tires.

I think I was at 5 psi on these. Good luck riding in deep sand on anything sugar-free.

 

[Nvreloader]

I would like to ask a question here:
What is self steer in ref to fat tires? Can someone explain it in layman's terms?
Thank you

 

[m@Robertson]

I would like to ask a question here:
What is self steer in ref to fat tires? Can someone explain it in layman's terms?
Thank you

Well, first of all, lets say you have big fat tires and you only inflate them to say 5 psi. So they are smooshed into the ground at their contact point with the pavement versus being inflated to being hard as a rock, so they stay perfectly round when in contact with the ground.

So now that you have done that, ride down the street in a straight line. When there is enough room to do so, turn the bars to the left. If you are getting self-steer, it feels as if the handlebars are steering themselves, harder, into the direction of your turn. Its as if you are on a raised embankment and gravity is forcing your turn to be sharper than intended. You will have to hold onto the bars firmly to hold the angle you want on the bars because if you didn't, they would turn all the way to the left on their own without your assistance, and you'd faceplant as a result.

Self-steering can be a bit tiring to deal with as you are always fighting the bike. Its fine in a straight line but turning means you have to apply extra pressure in the opposite direction of your turn to hold your turn rate steady.

 

[Nvreloader]

Mr R
Thank you for that information.
I have 4.8 tires on the Wart Hog,
and I run them at or within 5 lbs of the max psi on the tires side walls,
so I have never experienced self steer.

 

[AHicks]

I agree you can inflate a fat tire to the point self steering isn't an issue. The issue is, when inflated to the point where self steering is no longer in play, the ride you THOUGHT you were going to get with those big fat tires is GONE! They ride no differently than 2" wide tires, which don't leave you with the big heavy feel the fatty's do.

You CAN mess with the tire pressure to get a compromise between the self steering and good ride, but it's a skinny window, and it is no doubt a ride vs. self steering compromise.

Agree with m@Robertson regarding his thoughts on self steering. They keep you busy is the short story. My thought was that there's a LOT of rubber in contact with the pavement at any given time when run at lower pressures, and a lot of flex in the sidewalls.

If there is a ridge in the pavement parallel to your direction of travel, as the tire get up close enough to the ridge and tries to cross it, the self steering tire is going to turn away from it rather than just cross it. If there's a rut, the tire has a tendency to drop into it, requiring a little "swerve" to get out of it. -Al

 

[Eucrider]

Can I just show my bike,, I've had skinny bike but for some reason I just love the fat bike feel ,like a monster truck and comfortable

 

[m@Robertson]

I agree you can inflate a fat tire to the point self steering isn't an issue. The issue is, when inflated to the point where self steering is no longer in play, the ride you THOUGHT you were going to get with those big fat tires is GONE! They ride no differently than 2" wide tires, which don't leave you with the big heavy feel the fatty's do.

You CAN mess with the tire pressure to get a compromise between the self steering and good ride, but it's a skinny window, and it is no doubt a ride vs. self steering compromise.

Well the thing is not all tires exhibit the self-steering behavior. So its not a fat tire thing, its a tire thing. You have to either go thru different tires and find ones you like, or go online and listen to other posters tell you what tire does what.

My Snowshoe 2XLs work great from 5 psi beach riding to 15 psi paved trail riding once I am off the beach. Same goes for my Snow Avalanches. Now... you'd be out of your mind riding 5 psi on pavement because yeah sure you would get self-steer, but tire pressure would be so low you'd suck the life out of your battery riding through that kind of rolling resistance. But if I want to ride at 10 psi on pavement, or 12, they are all cushy and no self-steer. Or I ride at 15 and get a good balance. Since my bikes are 2wd and have zero suspension, I don't go to the full 20 psi and ride rolling rocks. No need to hurt myself.

Big Daddys are similarly fine at 8 psi up to my personal-preference max of about 15 psi. Any lower and its too much increase in rolling resistance unless, again, I'm on beach or mud.

 

[rtp]

Every time I have had self-steer, it has turned out I had pressure too low. However, sometimes you want low pressure (like riding beach dunes) so if the tire self-steers at lower pressure maybe thats a dealbreaker. I have found no way to predict which tire off the shelf will do this and which won't. My Vee Snowshoe XLs and Snow Avalanches, and Chaoyang/Arisun Bid Daddy/Big Fattys don't have an issue going waaaay down. My Origin8 Supercells in 30 tpi... same story. Origin8 Supercells in 120 tpi reportedly self-steer no matter how high you jack up the air pressure. So... thats the same tire just a different casing.

I've had more successes than failures in dealing with self-steering tires.

I think I was at 5 psi on these. Good luck riding in deep sand on anything sugar-free.

Yeah, I think it's as I think you mention in a post below - some tires and treads, tire compounds seem to be more or less susceptible to it. I've run my 'fat pig' BBHSD 4" fat tires from ~15-30PSI and never a hint of an issue including on and off-road. Meanwhile the rental was noticeably fatter tires, seemed to be at least 25PSI, but wanted to ride themselves. I wish had a pump handy but was surprised given prior fat tire experience. Was annoying and were it my bike, absolutely wouldn't be satisfied with it, but rental for casual day of riding ~30 miles on/off road, just needed to be aware it was there and adjust to it.

Someone mentioned keeping their tires at max PSI - that's almost always overinflated IMO on anything from cars and motorcycles to bikes. The question is whether or not a happy medium can be found, or you can wind up so over-pressured you no longer get much of the 'benefit' of the fat tires in the first place, which in the case of the rental bike was lack of suspension etc.

I wouldn't expect any sand/beach riding to be free of self-steering feel - it's sand.

 

[theemartymac]

I still absolutely love my fatties for mixed surface riding, although I agree that some tires prone to self-steering are self-defeating if you have to max them out. The stock 4" Kendas were great handling, but poor wearing. I have Vee Chicanes on one bike now, but they self steer unless pumped right up to the max. They also have a significant problem with traction drop off when cornered aggressively, so I would be reluctant to suggest them to anyone.

One notable issue for the short-term buyer, is the supply chain disruptions have hit fat tires (and I suspect most non-standard tire sizing's) particularly hard. I have a current wish list of up to a dozen different 3.5-4" tires I'd like to swap my chicanes for, but can't find ANY in local shops or online. Everyone is backordered indefinitely, with no reliable projections, The couple that can order stock, want ~$200 per tire. I can shoe my F150 for less! lol

 

[tomjasz]

What do I hate. Riding a tank without a canon. I get the beach and sand advantages but as a flat lander I’m not a fan. With a BBSHD the motor overcomes the tire drag. Anything else sucks. In my limited experience. I have a bikesdirect fatty laying in my shop for three years. I hated the steering response. Matt Robertson has built great eBikes. Just not my cuppa.

 

[Nvreloader]

Marty
Same thing around here, I haven't found any 4.8 Fat tires and good HD tubes,
I want to have a set of each standing by, as these OEM tires aren't the best.
I did find some 4.0 fat tires at $25 each???

 

[tomjasz]

I would like to ask a question here:
What is self steer in ref to fat tires? Can someone explain it in layman's terms?
Thank you

Marty
Same thing around here, I haven't found any 4.8 Fat tires and good HD tubes,
I want to have a set of each standing by, as these OEM tires aren't the best.
I did find some 4.0 fat tires at $25 each???

I have a pair of Panaracer tire and tubes CHEAP. $40 plus shipping CONUS/
highly rated by the guy that created the unrealistic fea is BBSHD nylon gear failure. But anyone right sometimes

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

One notable issue for the short-term buyer, is the supply chain disruptions have hit fat tires (and I suspect most non-standard tire sizing's) particularly hard. I have a current wish list of up to a dozen different 3.5-4" tires I'd like to swap my chicanes for, but can't find ANY in local shops or online. Everyone is backordered indefinitely, with no reliable projections, The couple that can order stock, want ~$200 per tire. I can shoe my F150 for less! lol

For your post, I went to my go-to online bike shop, Universal Cycles, to see how the stock of Schwalbe Jumbo Jims has improved since last year at this time. Well, it hasn't improved a bit.

Last summer with my rear tire getting really worn out, I needed a pair of JJ's to have on hand. But everywhere I checked, they were all out. Except Euro suppliers. I wound up getting a 4.0 JJ from some seller in Spain and another 4.0 JJ from Chain Reaction Cycles in England. In both cases, the price came to be the same, shipped, as I used to pay with Universal. Roughly the same shipping time, too. Except they were both in Europe and Universal is 90 miles away in Lancaster PA.

If anyone is looking for the higher end fat bike tires, I would not hesitate looking at Chain Reaction after my experience with them was so positive.

I do question why all of Europe has all the Schwalbe tires you want, while we here in the USA are shut completely out. Kinda think at this point it goes beyond just covid supply issues and maybe some kind of political beef between Germany and the US.

 

[m@Robertson]

I wouldn't expect any sand/beach riding to be free of self-steering feel - it's sand.

oh yeah on deep, sharply sloped stuff like that, even with 2wd keeping the front wheel from submerging, you are one zig away from a faceplant and it has nothing to do with the tires. You are skootching around right and left all over the place. It is by far the most challenging riding I have ever experienced. Although wondering if I will get back before the tide comes in is certainly part of the thrill

When I took that pic behind me I posted above, Which was only maybe a mile down from the place I got onto the beach, I turned around and took this one in the direction I was going. You could see the sunset in the pic facing rear. That sunset is illuminating what you see below. My regular destination is almost invisible all the way at the end of this pic and is why I have a 32ah pack on this bike. There is no inland access from my ingress point all the way to the destination at Marina State Beach, where I ride in and there's an electrical plug at the bathrooms.

After a half mile or so the footprints stop. Also that nice flat stuff gives way to a steep, relatively narrow slope (really bad riptides here). I've never taken a pic that far down cuz its really hard to stop and then start back up again.

But on this ride it got dark before I got that far and I had to turn around, hit the headlights and chug back.

oh and back on topic: 160Nm+80 Nm... just right

 

[tomjasz]

One set of 3 new tires 24” tires from
NL were $17 in shipping

i absolutely respect and enjoy builds by @m@Robertson, @petaluma, and @harryS . They are
o,the diy bible. AND give us incredible insight.



i




"

 

[AHicks]

Well the thing is not all tires exhibit the self-steering behavior. So its not a fat tire thing, its a tire thing. You have to either go thru different tires and find ones you like, or go online and listen to other posters tell you what tire does what.

My Snowshoe 2XLs work great from 5 psi beach riding to 15 psi paved trail riding once I am off the beach. Same goes for my Snow Avalanches. Now... you'd be out of your mind riding 5 psi on pavement because yeah sure you would get self-steer, but tire pressure would be so low you'd suck the life out of your battery riding through that kind of rolling resistance. But if I want to ride at 10 psi on pavement, or 12, they are all cushy and no self-steer. Or I ride at 15 and get a good balance. Since my bikes are 2wd and have zero suspension, I don't go to the full 20 psi and ride rolling rocks. No need to hurt myself.

Big Daddys are similarly fine at 8 psi up to my personal-preference max of about 15 psi. Any lower and its too much increase in rolling resistance unless, again, I'm on beach or mud.

Agree here too. I probably should have been more clear earlier. Knobby or other open tread designs seem to be fairly immune to self steering. The down side there being the noise when operated on pavement. They can be obnoxious. None of the tires I tried demonstrated any issue when operated off road. They were fine.

The issues I had were when using street smooth tread (quiet) tires on pavement. Same street tires operated off road were fine as well.

And I'm not saying they should be banned or taken off the market. They just didn't work out for me and my riding style, and it wasn't because I didn't try my damdest to make them work. My bike had 3 different sets of fairly expensive tires installed trying. -Al

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

@Mike TowpathTraveler.
They are in stock here bicycles.com

Did a quick check on them, @Rome and they are backordered!!

But that Goodyear fat tire looks interesting and at a nice price. I know Goodyear sells some thinner mtb type tires but never knew they are also into the fatbike game. This is good to know and I appreciate that info and that site, too!

 

[rtp]

oh yeah on deep, sharply sloped stuff like that, even with 2wd keeping the front wheel from submerging, you are one zig away from a faceplant and it has nothing to do with the tires. You are skootching around right and left all over the place. It is by far the most challenging riding I have ever experienced. Although wondering if I will get back before the tide comes in is certainly part of the thrill

Part of what makes it fun though, right?

I did a motorcycle trip in the tropics where someone was just starting up a motorcycle tour company… was going to be a few riders for kind of a ‘maiden trip’ for a week+ Everyone canceled and the owner asked I was still in - absolutely.. the two of us spent the week riding heavy pig bikes (for off-road, DL650s/VStroms) on not-so-ideal tires riding everywhere ‘we wont bring a tour here’ places. Heaven doing some pretty wild off-road then blasting down the beaches not accessible by cars. Balance and ‘enough’ speed made that particular day near perfect but there were a few puckering moments…never really had a ‘good’ sand bike (tires) even on the dedicated off-road bikes, but made do.

Sorry, few flashbacks of a great trip from the pic. Will see if can dig up a pic, but it’s always nice to find places no one/few have made it to..

Found one of 'em anyways. Not a great idea of what it took to reach here, but you can certainly tell - literally no one around, mainly because very much NOT easy to get to What's amusing is at this end, there are a few paths cleared - but they literally go - nowhere. We came in through/over some pretty much destroyed roads, then rode the sand from the left.

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys
I just found 1 each of these type of Snowshoe XLs and Snow Avalanche tires,
the seller wants $120, for the pair and only lists the tires as 26" and new.

I have an email in to him for the complete sizes etc.
Worth the funds, if they are fat tires?
Tia,
Don