Used Market in the Future???

[James Alderson]

Hey there, haven't really posted a ton as I have been mostly reading a trying to absorb all the data I can to make an informed decision on which e-mtb to buy. I was the typical guy who looked at a 5-8K dollar bike and wondered why anyone would not just buy a motorcycle or used car for that kind of money, but as I have gotten old I have let my fitness level get to an awful state and I will need some help getting back into biking. Thus my desire to own an ebike. I am specifically looking at full suspension e-mtb due to the abundance of trails around where I live and just having something else I can do with the bike.

Anyway, in doing the research I of course looked to see if there was anything used around me as I would with a car. There is literally nothing... I realize there are not that many electric bikes out there yet, but I wonder what the market will look like when people start trading in or just selling them to get a new model. I am that type of person... if something new comes out I feel is valuable or tech lustworthy, I will go for it.

So, my question is, what are peoples opinions on what the used market will look like for these things? For example, I am looking at a Specialized Turbo Levo Expert at about 7K dollars. I usually figure about half when pricing something for a used market. I am not sure if that will work in this case as there are no examples. I don't want to invest big money and find out its worth pennies on the dollar when I go to move up.

Thoughts???

 

[rich c]

In my area, I would be surprised to get close to half when I sell. I've only seen 4 other guys on the paths that I ride, not much market. The buyer is going to be suspicious of the battery condition when buying used. They'll have to figure replacement at nearly a $700 cost on some bikes. I bought one demo and one year end model from my dealer, great way to save some money at the start. Over my lifetime, I've learned that I should buy for enjoyment and not worry about resale. Only made money once on a hobby resale, and that was a demo sawmill I purchased and latter resold.

 

[James Alderson]

Hey Rich, I agree. Less than half if lucky around here too. The problem is that the technology will change so fast that the current generation of electric bikes will be like a commodore 64 (showing my age) in the next 3-5 years. I guess I should just buy it to enjoy it and hope for the best later on.

I think the other issue on these is shipping. If it was easy and cheap to ship them across the country, the market might be a little more open. The chances of me finding a buyer for an electric high end bike here in my area is low, but if I cold advertise and ship nationally, likely would be easy(er).

 

[Denis Shelston]

I think @rich c has the right idea. Buy for your pleasure.

Assume its value will be close to nothing in used condition. It is not an investment.

I look at it as a gym membership, or a golf membership. I need to exercise, I need to lose a few pounds and this is honestly the best, the only and most fun thing I am REALLY happy to do.

Whatever you get in a few years will be like the cherry on your sundae.

 

[Solom01]

Hi James. When I had an old ebike I didn't even try to sell it, I just donated it to Goodwill. As Rich pointed out batteries are such a huge part of the cost of an ebike and they degrade so quickly that if I were going to buy a used bike I would consider a regular bike which can last forever but never an ebike which without a battery is pretty much worthless. This is a problem not only for ebikes but for all electric vehicles. Outside of Teslas which have a somewhat cult following take a look at the price of used Leafs or Volts - the depreciation is unreal.

 

[pxpaulx]

Hi James. When I had an old ebike I didn't even try to sell it, I just donated it to Goodwill. As Rich pointed out batteries are such a huge part of the cost of an ebike and they degrade so quickly that if I were going to buy a used bike I would consider a regular bike which can last forever but never an ebike which without a battery is pretty much worthless. This is a problem not only for ebikes but for all electric vehicles. Outside of Teslas which have a somewhat cult following take a look at the price of used Leafs or Volts - the depreciation is unreal.

I think your reference to depreciation of electric vehicles is a little off. The reason they appear so low is because the subsidies they get mean nobody paid anywhere near sticker in the first place!

If anything electric car batteries have proven a lot more resilient than most would have expected.

Thanks to markets outside the US, ebikes with high end cells are becoming less of a concern when buying used... Assuming it is a brand name bike that stands behind their product.

Short of moving to an electric motorcycle, ebikes are just about to the point where current tech meets the needs of a majority of the market. The only real room for increase is reducing weight and increasing capacity of the batteries... Even that is getting to the point where most needs are met.

My first essay motion bike was 320 wh from just 3 years ago. My current easy motion is almost double at 600wh in the same space and a much more esthetically pleasing look in line with regular mtb styles.

 

[James Alderson]

Hi James. When I had an old ebike I didn't even try to sell it, I just donated it to Goodwill. As Rich pointed out batteries are such a huge part of the cost of an ebike and they degrade so quickly that if I were going to buy a used bike I would consider a regular bike which can last forever but never an ebike which without a battery is pretty much worthless. This is a problem not only for ebikes but for all electric vehicles. Outside of Teslas which have a somewhat cult following take a look at the price of used Leafs or Volts - the depreciation is unreal.

Thats a great point on the bike being useless without the battery. Now, two things come to mind about this though. One is that you can repack a battery at any battery shop from what I understand. My biggest concern in buying a Specialized Turbo Levo or a Bulls E-Stream is that the battery is built into the frame and I am not sure how long I can expect these companies to support the market for those batteries in the future. Two is that I have been wondering if it might be better to buy something like the mountain bike models from Luna Cycle where they take an existing good quality full suspension bike and strap on a high power mid motor setup that can be removed should it become useless or need to be replaced with the newest version.

 

[Solom01]

That's exactly what happened to me. I had an iZip Enlightened with the battery built into the frame (this was not a cheap bike) and when the battery died (even though the company is still around) there were no replacements from the factory. My choices were to either mess around with trying to fashion a replacement or to just say the heck with it and move on. It's interesting that another forum post has comments from at least two users who have had expensive Bosch batteries die a premature death. Your chances are better if you stick to a well known manufacturer but there are no guaranties pass the warranty period and all it takes is a small change in the design and new batteries will no longer work on your unit. Keep in mind that way before total failure you'll have diminished capacity - so your 25 mile range may be 15 miles. It would help if vendors were more honest about true range and actually had management systems that would protect the bike by not allowing charging over a certain amount or total discharge but since this is such a marketing point they'll state the highest possible range and urge you to fully charge the battery after each use - even though that will drastically lower the life expectancy. In any case regardless of what I or anyone else thinks the true market value of a used ebike is what a third party will pay for it. It would be really cool if people who had sold their used ebikes to a disinterested third party would comment on their experience and how much they sold them for, it's hard to guess at this when there are so very few listings on Craigslist or anywhere else for used ebikes.

 

[LimboJim]

Thats a great point on the bike being useless without the battery. Now, two things come to mind about this though. One is that you can repack a battery at any battery shop from what I understand. My biggest concern in buying a Specialized Turbo Levo or a Bulls E-Stream is that the battery is built into the frame and I am not sure how long I can expect these companies to support the market for those batteries in the future. Two is that I have been wondering if it might be better to buy something like the mountain bike models from Luna Cycle where they take an existing good quality full suspension bike and strap on a high power mid motor setup that can be removed should it become useless or need to be replaced with the newest version.

The main problem with Luna's eMTBs, IMO, is that they're using powerful but not very sophisticated motors that tend to lag on kicking in and easing off. They're also much more herky-jerky than Bosch, Yahama, and Brose as a result.

This, along with the protruding nature of the motors' placement in front and/or below the bikes' cranks, can make for some tricky traversing on technical trails (downright dangerous, in my experience). Even if you keep to "easy" trails, don't ever try to hop a log or that motor will catch it and the bike will come to a dead stop (but you will not)!

Motor and battery replacements might be easier and cheaper through Luna, but I believe that well-established bike manufacturers will support older models for many years to come...

 

[TrevorB]

Bosch are probably best example of powerback support. I'd be surprised if Specialized don't support the Levo will into future given huge number of bikes they've sold. By time your battery needs replacing latest version will have considerable more capacity.

The great thing about FS eMTB is they can be repurposed as commuter or tourer. That is long term plan for Bosch eMTB, fit dongle and it is fast commuter.

 

[Drew]

I have a 2013 Currie iZip E3 Zuma with about 5000 miles on it and the battery has degraded to the point that I get about half the range I used to (roughly down to 15 miles from 30 miles when new). The battery is limiting my rides this summer. I'm getting my kicks "hypermiling". Today I visited the shop I bought the bike from and asked what my options are. They called Currie Tech and probably there not replacements available, if one can be found someplace it will have been on the shelf for a while and cost would be $600. Currie Tech suggested the better choice is a battery rebuild, and the shop referred me to www.rechargeablepowerenergy.com; in their experience that would cost about $500 for my bike.

Besides the cost of replacing the battery, the bike will soon need new tires and chain. If it is like other bicycles I have had, it's also about time for a new freewheel and possibly chainring. The derailleur works OK but I know drivetrain tuneups often reveal weak links. Also the rear wheel needs some work, I'm starting to hear some spoke noise back there. So I figure there's an easy $400 worth of work needed, on top of the battery.

So, the bottom line is, this bike cost me $2100 and it needs close to $1000 to bring it back to snuff. I'm thinking that's a lot of money to throw at the bike. I wonder how much longer the motor can reasonably be expected to go. It is a geared motor, after all. Would it go another 5000 miles? Or would a fresh battery put enough strain on it to push some internal component over the edge? I'm thinking I'd rather put $1000 towards a newer/better bike and I am hard-pressed to imagine anyone that would want to put $1000 into a bike with so many miles. Maybe someone that likes working on bikes can save some bucks. But there's no getting around $500 for a new battery!

I looked at e-bikes for sale in my area (greater Seattle, where there are a lot of e-bikes) and there's only about a dozen right now. Only a few quality bikes (Stromer, Ohm, Giant) and they were older models that clearly have some miles on them. Possibly fairly priced, provided the battery is in good shape, but how can you tell? Off a fresh charge, my bike still goes like new! There's no way to tell what you're getting. The other e-bikes were cheap off-brand listed at ridiculous prices, or "new in box", or home-built specials.

So I think it is all too easy to see why there's not much of a market for used e-bikes. They are probably not a good value. They wear out, the motor and batteries are expensive to replace, and there is no getting around the battery being a pig-in-the-poke, and to a certain extent the same is true of the motor!

 

[Over50]

..I was the typical guy who looked at a 5-8K dollar bike and wondered why anyone would not just buy a motorcycle or used car for that kind of money...Anyway, in doing the research I of course looked to see if there was anything used around me as I would with a car. There is literally nothing...

I see shock on the faces of folks that ask me how much my bike cost ($5500) and I keep getting the comment "I could buy a car for that". Which tells me they are looking at it solely as transportation whereas I was looking at a commuter bike as fun transportation enabling a healthy lifestyle. I see a ton of folks paying status symbol premiums for certain car brands (which I would never do) but I would spend money on a good bike - just a matter of preferences and priorities I guess.
The tech has changed so quickly and the latest generations of bikes are probably so much improved that perhaps there isn't a really good used market. Maybe bikes more than a few years old get scrapped more often than resold. If you have e-bike shops in your area they might have some used bikes. I've seen a few at the one e-bike shop in my area. That particular shop has a really poor web presence so you'd never find their used bikes by looking online - maybe that's the case for other small operators as well.

 

[Dewey]

CrazyLenny's in Wisconsin have some good prices on previous model year Haibikes with Yamaha motor and half off a Bulls Twenty9 E FS 3 RSI with Bosch motor, plus $200-300 shipping.