Updating EBR, Need Your Input!

[Admin]

Hi guys,

You may have noticed I'm updating some features in ElectricBikeReview.com and trying to make information easier to navigate. In addition to adding some new fields, I'm also grouping it by section with these expand/collapse things.

Here's the question I have for you, right now it feels like there are too many sections to me... and maybe too much detail. I'm struggling to narrow down to just the most important fields and put them in the right order. Could you please chime in on what you see here: http://electricbikereview.com/stromer/st2/ with the expanders (do you like them?) and then what you see in this list below (which is shortened and grouped into just 3 sections).

The first "Introduction" section would be expanded by default and you'd have to click on the Bicycle Details and Electronic Details to expand them. Do you think those are the correct header names? At some point I plan to make each item reader-editable like a wiki so people can contribute and really flesh out the details for each bike. In that sense, maybe more fields is better?! I just want to keep it from being overwhelming both visually and in terms of the data being presented. Here's my updated list:

Introduction
- Make / Model :
- Price MSRP :
- Suggested Use :
- Warranty :
- Availability :

Electronic Details
- Motor Type / Nominal Output / Peak Output :
- Motor Brand / Motor Torque :
- Battery Voltage / Amp Hours / Watt Hours :
- Battery Brand / Battery Chemistry :
- Estimated Charge Time / Estimated Range :
- Display Type / Brand / Accessories :
- Drive Modes / Top Speed :

Bicycle Details
- Total Weight / Motor Weight / Battery Weight :
- Frame Types / Frame Sizes :
- Frame Material / Frame Colors :
- Fork Details / Rear Details :
- Gearing Details / Shifter Details :
- Cranks / Pedals :
- Headset / Stem / Handlebar :
- Brake Details :
- Grips / Saddle / Seat Post :
- Rims / Spokes :
- Tire Brand / Tire Size / Tire Details / Tube Details :
- Accessories / Other Details :

I'd definitely like to hear from @Ravi Kempaiah @Chris Nolte and @Chandlee EBS since we discussed this a bit already at Interbike but I appreciate feedback from anyone willing to share. Should I remove anything? Is the order correct? Are the labels right? What am I missing? Thanks again!

 

[Roadrash3]

I actually like it, i think it looks nice and makes it easier to find what i need.

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

I actually like it, i think it looks nice and makes it easier to find what i need.

For what it's worth I'll second that, sometimes you just want to lookup a part or component specs for comparison or upgrade. And yeah I would look into having established community members able to edit, wiki style or you are just going to be too busy to ever get back out in the shop. -S

 

[Deleted member 803]

detail about display and ALL data that the displays shows or one can toggle thru. Many review sites add a feature called: "suggested first upgrades" for those items you feel would benefit the user. When doing your reviews either video or static, I'd like close up photos of the display as resolution and clarity of display are an important consideration for an e-bike purchase.

For the newbie...more on frame construction and geometry specs with suggested lean angles. One of the questions I struggle with is how to look at a frame geometry and understand the lean of my back and the pressure on my hands. The motorcycle industry categories riding positions as straight up, slight forward lean, aggressive lean.

 

[DashRiprock]

For the newbie...more on frame construction and geometry specs with suggested lean angles. One of the questions I struggle with is how to look at a frame geometry and understand the lean of my back and the pressure on my hands. The motorcycle industry categories riding positions as straight up, slight forward lean, aggressive lean.

^...Probably the single most overlooked subject that I've seen beyond throttle vs no throttle (and certainly more important).
The ebike industry is really missing the boat if they don't stress this enough. I'm having to put risers on my bars due to the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to hunch over putting undo pressure on my hands (as 86 noted) or to
even sit on a postage stamp (yet another overlooked area) to both ride (somewhat) aggressively and cruise with the same ride.

 

[JoePah]

^...Probably the single most overlooked subject that I've seen beyond throttle vs no throttle (and certainly more important).
The ebike industry is really missing the boat if they don't stress this enough. I'm having to put risers on my bars due to the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to hunch over putting undo pressure on my hands (as 86 noted) or to
even sit on a postage stamp (yet another overlooked area) to both ride (somewhat) aggressively and cruise with the same ride.

Don't you think the bike style pretty much tells you what type of riding style to expect? If I see a bike where the handlebars are higher than the seat that's pretty much a relaxed cruiser bike.. or if the handlebars wrap around towards the rider that would indicate an even more relaxed position.

The part of the review that bothers me is the importance of a front suspension vs larger tires.. To me most of these forks are cheap and bouncy and detract from ride quality.. Unless youre buying a bike with a nice Foxshox or better fork, better off with a solid fork and quality tires.

 

[Clark]

Court, a comment and a suggestion or two. The changes, expandable/collapsible categories etc, are an improvement, especially for going back to a review to find a specific detail. Think hard about the wiki thing, I have real world experience in this area, besides the obvious potential problems, its the unexpected ones that will give you a real headache. As is, when someone reads/watches a review on EBR, it comes from a single source, a single voice, which, I don't know how everybody else feels, but it engenders a certain credibility to what I'm reading or watching, getting it from your viewpoint. Allowing other "voices" into that space IMHO would dilute that to some extent. Having said that, I would suggest that immediately below your review, title it FEEDBACK, let people add a correction there, you can check it and edit the review if you have time, or allow someone like Ravi (sorry) or Chandlee (sorry), or someone else who you know and trust,to make the appropriate edit in the review. Let people write their own review there as well, always good to hear how the bike performs out in the real world,and any other comment people may have on that particular ebike. I know these things are available now in the Community section, but it would be great to have it right there below the review instead of having to go searching for it.

Clark

 

[Bike_On]

Court,
I had to search a little to find this thread, and I think it should be more visible on the web site when going to the home page, or community page.

Good stuff. I have made several excel spreadsheet with the same kind of details when comparing and researching bikes. I like your breakdown, and the three sections address the economic, power assist, and typical ridng elements of the bike.

Ratings.
In your new format, you are going to a 1-10 scale. In order to add specificity to your ratings, can I humbly suggest the following?

There needs to be a rating for each sub-section and a fourth section, which is your review: Ride impressions, handling, acceleration, ergonomic controls, interface, braking, etc. So a final rating summary would be:
Market Rating (introduction items): 1-10
Electronic Assist Rating: 1-10
Bicycle Rating: 1-10
Ride Performance Rating: 1-10
Final Rating : 1-10 (Average based on weighting as you determine for all bikes)

I think this helps give granularity to your rating. For instance, some bike have very nice, quality components, but a weaker power drive. Some have a strong motor drive, but cheap components. A breakdown rating of categories also justifies a high rating and a low rating. In the past, many bikes were 4, 4.5, or 5. I am concerned that now many will be 8, 9 and 10, or 9, 9.5 and 10. It makes it hard to compare the differences. Another hot item is price. Should a $7k bike be rated lower than a $3k bike? What if the $3k bike is overvalued, while the $7k is about right based upon quality and parts?


Other feedback:
Electronic Details
- Motor Type / Nominal Output / Peak Output:
- Motor Brand / Motor Torque :
- Battery Voltage / Amp Hours / Watt Hours :
- Battery Brand / Battery Chemistry :
- Estimated Charge Time / Estimated Range :
- Display Type / Brand / Accessories :
- Drive Modes / Top Speed :

Possible change to:
-Nominal/ Peak Output Power
-Peak Motor Torque, or Ave Torque : Which is it?

- Battery Chemistry : Will there be a legend for the battery chemistries with typical whr/kg densities and cycle life?

- Battery Brand: Is it open source or proprietary? Expandable or upgrade options?

- Estimated Range : At what assist level?

Idea for Estimated Range:

-Range @ max assist, (miles/Km), Average Speed, and Efficiency (Whr/mi)
-Range @ least assist, (miles/Km),[/SIZE] Average Speed, and Efficiency (Whr/mi)

Thanks for working so hard to put info into the hands of the consumers and hobbyist. It is appreciated and you do super quality reviews. I'm a tech guy, so I like to see the nerdy details on the performance and not all want that. I stuggle with an evaluation that is too touchy/feely, and might depend on what you ate for breakfast that day, and if one had a comfortable ride or not.

 

[Bike_On]

^...Probably the single most overlooked subject that I've seen beyond throttle vs no throttle (and certainly more important).
The ebike industry is really missing the boat if they don't stress this enough. I'm having to put risers on my bars due to the fact that there is no reason whatsoever to hunch over putting undo pressure on my hands (as 86 noted) or to
even sit on a postage stamp (yet another overlooked area) to both ride (somewhat) aggressively and cruise with the same ride.

Dash,

I think Drive Modes should cover throttle/PAS/both.?

D

 

[DashRiprock]

For the newbie...more on frame construction and geometry specs with suggested lean angles. One of the questions I struggle with is how to look at a frame geometry and understand the lean of my back and the pressure on my hands.

Don't you think the bike style pretty much tells you what type of riding style to expect? If I see a bike where the handlebars are higher than the seat that's pretty much a relaxed cruiser bike.. or if the handlebars wrap around towards the rider that would indicate an even more relaxed position.

I was agreeing with 86 in terms of the above. Every person's varying proper seat height in relation to the pedals will have a lot to do with this geometry, the positioning of the bars and how both their hands and back feel after a long ride. I frankly bought the Dash expecting to 'get used to it' in terms of whatever the above turned out to be. I was wrong. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out whether a simple adjustable extension is the answer or some kind of freakish looking bar that probably hasn't even been invented yet (I saw one on here) that simply gives one 'options' as they ride along.
I'll also have to admit that I have a hard time staying in one place off two wheels. If I'm coasting, cruise controlling or just generally lolly-gaggling along...I'm into every contortion that I can think of while still trying to maintain my balance (must be a childhood thing!) just to break the monotony and stretch out my frame.
I would classify myself as the 'anti' serious biker in just about all respects.

 

[DashRiprock]

Dash,
I think Drive Modes should cover throttle/PAS/both.?
D

If folks want to be honest with newbie riders as to the advantages of both (not to mention cruise control)..I continually am amazed that it isn't one of the first questions asked...especially for older, injured or even out-of-shape folks just starting out.
It's as if you aren't pedaling ALL the time or shifting gears 'just right'...

 

[DashRiprock]

One simple heading might be:
Throttle?
Start from dead stop; instantaneous 'high' pedal assist; cruise control, throttle only
When you start adding the advantages, it narrows things quickly for some and makes the process one heck of a lot easier (unless you're dead set on brand names vs features).

 

[Brandon b FL.]

Make a section that will explain the deffernt pedalx systems and the just mention what each bike has\features in the sections

 

[BenS]

I like your changes, Court. I think you've added more headings already, from what I see to date.

I wish we could reduce some work for you, but I agree with some others that frame dimensions are really important. Unfortunately, the reason is that there are so few damn shops that sell Ebikes! So, as some are buying online, frame sizes will help immensely. I agree with JoePah that you probably don't need to go into too much description about the riding position, as we can tell from some of the pics. But measurements would help, esp if the mfr will just feed them to you. It would be a pain for you to actually measure the bikes, unless you want to quickly measure the seat tube.

Information that would be really helpful: Updates to the current model. Stromer - ST1 - ST2, for instance. Even if it's just general.

Not to sound like an elitist, but if I were you I'd reconsider the full wiki. Like Clark said, we know the info is coming from you, and you know what you're talking about. You're probably feeling overwhelmed, but I think reviewing everyone's contributions, moderating arguments, practicing diplomacy and making corrections will make more work for you in the long run. We already have the Community threads; those are handy for getting the skinny from owners. I like the ability to chat with folks there, get opinions, and then refer back to your reviews and info.

As a crusty old bookseller, I have one suggestion: be cautious about separating information into too many categories. I think everything is great as I see it right now, but don't be tempted to subdivide further. It will be harder to navigate, because many people will have different assumptions about which expander to open. I made this mistake when I subdivided the nature section at the store (one I knew a great deal about.) Customers who didn't know as much (like us, ebike newbs) had a hard time anticipating "where" to look for their items.

I appreciate all your hard work!

 

[Chandlee EBS]

Hi guys,

I'd definitely like to hear from @Ravi Kempaiah @Chris Nolte and @Chandlee EBS since we discussed this a bit already at Interbike but I appreciate feedback from anyone willing to share. Should I remove anything? Is the order correct? Are the labels right? What am I missing? Thanks again!

Oye! You're doing a bang-up job, man.

It's certainly becoming a very difficult market to explain. It's comparable to describing cars. There are so may different types and technologies, and all of it is tremendously subjective. I can think a bike is a home run, while the next person thinks it's completely wrong fit for them. Fortunately, you keep your stuff pretty objective and you've tried just about everything out there. I actually agree with the majority of your ratings, but I don't think people should be forming their decisions based on them. I appreciate your descriptions of how something is riding with your reinforcement of what technology is driving it.

I think a "who this bike might appeal to" or "bike in summary" section would be nice. Otherwise, I really like your updated list.

 

[Admin]

Thanks for the awesome input everyone. I've bee refining my approach (it's taking longer than I'd like) but I know it's turning out better because of your great ideas. It's important to get these things right (or close to it) before going through and posting new reviews and updating older ones. I'm always open to feedback here, via the contact form on the site or privately if you feel there's a problem. Keep an eye out in coming days!

Cheers,
Court

 

[CatherineStrain]

Hey Court,

I refer to your site A LOT for all different types of information. And, you have helped me out a whole bunch! THANK YOU! As you know, I'm very new to the electric bike world and this is my very first post on here. I believe you had said it is going to be a drop down menu (which I think I had seen a couple of days ago) but, drop down, in my opinion is certainly the way to go. However, not sure if it is due to site maintenance but, it is not currently displaying as a drop down menu (or with expanders).

I just wanted to add that a lot of the time I'll be looking for specific info regarding "brakes" or "tires" , etc. And, a neat trick that works on any computer is using CTRL+F (Find) as a shortcut to search for specific words, it highlights each time the word is used, giving you the option to simply navigate to it. I'm not sure if it is possible as I have not seen it on any sites but, maybe there would be a way to add a similar feature to each review. Or maybe just the people lucky enough to read this will be able to utilize this trick, if they are not already.

On a side note from a newbie to the industry, I think that a lot of people end up on your site that are also new to the industry or just looking to purchase an e-bike for a transportation alternative or fun. If there is anything I can suggest on this topic is trying to keep more in mind that not everyone reading your reviews are experienced e-bike cyclists. I think you have done a pretty good job of this so far and don't recall any specifics right now but, there have been a few times that I had to ask more experienced people for help (simply from lack of knowledge). Ie; At one point, not too long ago either, I did not know that a "fork" was another word for "suspension"(embarrassing now...haha). As the industry grows, I believe more and more people, not just electric bike/bike enthusiasts with be consumers of electric bikes. About one month ago, on Facebook I had shared your "What is an Electric Bike?" video and it received a lot of attention and a lot of "shares" - way more than anything else shared. I believe this is due to a lot of people are still at the point of not even hearing of/knowing what an electric bike is.

Also, what I'd like to see more of personally, is more detail about the display or console. I do a decent amount of research on a lot of manufacturer's sites and they also seem to breeze over or leave out entirely the details of the display. Maybe it's just not that important, who knows? Just food for thought.

But, overall I rate you 10 out of 10.

Thanks again for all that you do.

Catherine Strain

 

[PowerMe]

I love the redesign and I'm very grateful to have this resource. As someone doing a lot of research, one thing I'd like to see is the ability to sort and filter the reviews in various ways.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Ability to sort list by rating order, with the best ratings at the top of the list.
2. Add a category for type of bike (Commuter, MTB, Road, City, Cruiser) and have ability to select which types of bikes to look at, filtering out the ones not selected
3. Add a category for type of frames available for that bike model (Step-Through, High Bar, Medium Bar) and ability to filter results
4. Add a category for frame sizes available (S / M / L / XL) and the ability to filter the list to find a specific size or sizes
5. Add a category for type of assist (Throttle / Pedelec / Both) and the ability to filter the list on any of the choices
6. Add a category for where battery lives (Rear hub, Rear rack, Down Tube, Seatpost, Front) and the ability to filter
7. Add a category for battery strength in ah (8ah, 10ah, 11ah, 12ah.... etc) and the ability to filter
8. Add a category for battery voltage (36, 48, etc) and the ability to filter
9. Add a category for battery wattage (250, 300, 350, 500, 750, etc) and the ability to filter

I think that would help shoppers and researchers narrow down their choices quickly and easily. So if someone will only consider an ebike that comes with a 48v battery, they could filter on that criteria.

Or someone short, like me, might only want to look at step-through frames and wants to see every bike offered with this as an option.

Thanks again for this great site!!

 

[FitzChivalry]

One of the questions I struggle with is how to look at a frame geometry and understand the lean of my back and the pressure on my hands. The motorcycle industry categories riding positions as straight up, slight forward lean, aggressive lean.

I second that. My main need was for an upright bike, which you, @Court, factored into your recommendation for the Pedego City Commuter, which has adjustable angles on its handlebars. My wrists aren't strong, and I work on a computer for a living, so protecting that part of my body was consideration #1.

 

[FitzChivalry]

As someone doing a lot of research, one thing I'd like to see is the ability to sort and filter the reviews in various ways.

This mirrors a suggestion that I made some time back. (I think I might have also rogered-up to help build such a thing; I apologize for dropping the ball on that, @Court.)