Update to/New Turbo Vado 5.0?
- Thread starter Tyler S
- Start date
I bought a Vado 5.0 IGH last summer, and found the last one in my area. But I had gone to other bike shops at the time that said it was "backordered" until June of 2024 but I could order one if interested. That corroborates June and loosely implies it should be a very similar model if they were letting me order it as a Vado 5.0 IGH.
AvalancheRun
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I know there are some issues with the Automatiq, but this thing really is so much better than R&M and Gazelle, imo. I've tested the Automatiq and loved it.
How has yours been?
I really like it. Like you mentioned, I initially I had issues because the belt was too tight which ended up limiting max gear ratio. I fixed that and at the same time I swapped 24T to the 22T rear sprocket. Both the rear sprocket and belt tension probably caused issues for others and was preventable by Specialized in my opinion (and I bought from Specialized shop and they were unable to troubleshoot)...but since resolving its been great.
I agree about the Automatiq -- not having to shift gears is so transparent and makes it a great commuter bike for me (and I go on recreational rides on easy trails as well). Sure, I've shifted gears my whole life so it's muscle memory, but not having to shift gears 100x on a short commute involving cars and frequent stops is a game changer, especially given the potential acceleration from high assist modes (and frequent stops) -- that would require rapid shifting or riding like a single speed. I find it does a great job shifting up or down from 0-28mph and anywhere in between at all assist and cadences (I typically ride at a cadence of ~78rpm on turbo at 25mph to work, and then no assist or eco home, also at 78rpm but about half the speed).
Ignoring gearing, I also really like the ride and stability at high speeds coming from an old and much smaller mountain bike that had an aggressive riding position. This bike is giant in comparison though
Are you riding something with an Automatiq at the moment as well? I want to get one for my wife if I can convince her to take up riding again (and assuming they become available again...).
I agree about the Automatiq -- not having to shift gears is so transparent and makes it a great commuter bike for me (and I go on recreational rides on easy trails as well). Sure, I've shifted gears my whole life so it's muscle memory, but not having to shift gears 100x on a short commute involving cars and frequent stops is a game changer, especially given the potential acceleration from high assist modes (and frequent stops) -- that would require rapid shifting or riding like a single speed. I find it does a great job shifting up or down from 0-28mph and anywhere in between at all assist and cadences (I typically ride at a cadence of ~78rpm on turbo at 25mph to work, and then no assist or eco home, also at 78rpm but about half the speed).
Ignoring gearing, I also really like the ride and stability at high speeds coming from an old and much smaller mountain bike that had an aggressive riding position. This bike is giant in comparison though
Are you riding something with an Automatiq at the moment as well? I want to get one for my wife if I can convince her to take up riding again (and assuming they become available again...).
AvalancheRun
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
The belt tension spec is way too high in my view, and it leads to issues like very stiff shifting on the manual version. I’ve had to argue with shops about this. The shifting force required should be light and easy for constant gear changing, not measured in newton meters…the belt should be similar to a chain on a single speed.I really like it. Like you mentioned, I initially I had issues because the belt was too tight which ended up limiting max gear ratio. I fixed that and at the same time I swapped 24T to the 22T rear sprocket. Both the rear sprocket and belt tension probably caused issues for others and was preventable by Specialized in my opinion (and I bought from Specialized shop and they were unable to troubleshoot)...but since resolving its been great.
I agree about the Automatiq -- not having to shift gears is so transparent and makes it a great commuter bike for me (and I go on recreational rides on easy trails as well). Sure, I've shifted gears my whole life so it's muscle memory, but not having to shift gears 100x on a short commute involving cars and frequent stops is a game changer, especially given the potential acceleration from high assist modes (and frequent stops) -- that would require rapid shifting or riding like a single speed. I find it does a great job shifting up or down from 0-28mph and anywhere in between at all assist and cadences (I typically ride at a cadence of ~78rpm on turbo at 25mph to work, and then no assist or eco home, also at 78rpm but about half the speed).
Ignoring gearing, I also really like the ride and stability at high speeds coming from an old and much smaller mountain bike that had an aggressive riding position. This bike is giant in comparison though
Are you riding something with an Automatiq at the moment as well? I want to get one for my wife if I can convince her to take up riding again (and assuming they become available again...).
Glad to hear it’s been great for you! I regret not buying the 5.0 IGH when it was available. Since there is the Bluetooth remote option for manual shifting I don’t see a downside at all compared to the manual shifter. My IGH is a Gazelle with Enviolo Manual.
Yeah, I don't know why they have such a high upper tension spec and why dealers think higher end of spec is better. Lots of issues between what we see with a seemingly simple solution.
Glad you sorted out the tension issue as well -- neither of these bikes are fun when they don't work properly. I tried a Vado 3.0 manual igh and it's shifting was stiff as well!
Btw, I have the bt shifter but took it off because I rarely used it. For one it didn't improve ride for me compared to what seven cadence settings could do. But it also required the phone app to manually enable the shifter each time bike was turned on. The two combined felt like a Rube Goldberg machine!
Glad you sorted out the tension issue as well -- neither of these bikes are fun when they don't work properly. I tried a Vado 3.0 manual igh and it's shifting was stiff as well!
Btw, I have the bt shifter but took it off because I rarely used it. For one it didn't improve ride for me compared to what seven cadence settings could do. But it also required the phone app to manually enable the shifter each time bike was turned on. The two combined felt like a Rube Goldberg machine!
Bill G
Active Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Near Lake George, NY
The belt tension on my R&M Nevo 3 with enviolo was too high and causing problems. I now aim for about 40 pounds/18kg per the Gates chart: https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/resources/handling-and-tension. I have used both the Gates cricket and their app to measure tension. If you don't have a cricket, I'd just stick with the app. The desired cricket readings are towards the low end of the scale and a bit difficult to read.
mattie_b
Member
- Region
- USA
Out of curiosity, why 35lbs? I have mine (Vado 5 with the Automatiq IGH) set to 40lbs per Gates recommendations. Never considered using anything different.
I found that my Enviolo calibration was inconsistent at higher tension and I would not get the full gear ratio range on hub. I found this while troubleshooting a couple things while setting up the new bike (ie centering rear wheel, adjusting tension to troubleshoot the feel of ghost pedaling and vibrations in the pedals at certain speeds and gear ratios). While making those adjustment, I found my max cadence at 28mph varied with each setup/calibration.... ultimately linked to belt tension. I also changed rear cog to 22T but that was icing on the cake after I sorted out belt tension (22T fixed ghost pedaling & vibrations).
Anyway, once every thing was working well at 35lbs I just left it. This is part of the reason I haven't upgraded to new hub firmware...I don't want to mess it up now that it's working so well not knowing how new continuous self calibration will work in new FW.
A word of caution, I tried a very low tension as an experiment and found the hub was slipping under aggressive pedaling (confirmed it was hub and not belt). Meaning crank gave way and I almost fell off bike. I suspect calibration sets min/max limits for hub gear ratio...and it was selecting a max gear ratio that didn't have enough contact in planetary gears or something under high torque conditions. My cadence at 28mph was very low though
So 40 should be good if all is working well for you. Have you tried the new 48 firmware?
Anyway, once every thing was working well at 35lbs I just left it. This is part of the reason I haven't upgraded to new hub firmware...I don't want to mess it up now that it's working so well not knowing how new continuous self calibration will work in new FW.
A word of caution, I tried a very low tension as an experiment and found the hub was slipping under aggressive pedaling (confirmed it was hub and not belt). Meaning crank gave way and I almost fell off bike. I suspect calibration sets min/max limits for hub gear ratio...and it was selecting a max gear ratio that didn't have enough contact in planetary gears or something under high torque conditions. My cadence at 28mph was very low though
So 40 should be good if all is working well for you. Have you tried the new 48 firmware?
mattie_b
Member
- Region
- USA
Thanks for the info @leifg!
I find it difficult to maintain 28mph on flat surfaces with my bike. ~24mph is the top speed for me at 80rpm (my preferred cadence) in ECO (which I have set to 30/30) on flats, which is plenty fast for me. I can go faster with a higher cadence and/or higher assist level, but that is getting outside of my comfort zone.
With that said, I do occasionally go faster when riding down hills. I experience something very similar to what you are describing with a compenent on the drivetrain "slipping" when peddling with more force than normal while at higher speeds (>25mph). This has also almost caused me to fall on a couple occasions. I now resort to keeping my cadence to 80rpm or lower, which feels close to ghost peddling when going that fast, but prevents the drivetrain "slipping" and sudden jolt. I do feel the IGH try's to go to a higher gear, but then quickly jumps back to the slightly lower gear. Was curious if that simply the highest gear available or some other issue with the IGH. I had my LBS look at it once, but they were not able to recreate the issue. So I just learned to live with it as I know exactly when it occurs.
I am on v48 of the firmware. I was having this issue before the update though. The main reason why I did the update was an attempt to solve the above issue.
I find it difficult to maintain 28mph on flat surfaces with my bike. ~24mph is the top speed for me at 80rpm (my preferred cadence) in ECO (which I have set to 30/30) on flats, which is plenty fast for me. I can go faster with a higher cadence and/or higher assist level, but that is getting outside of my comfort zone.
With that said, I do occasionally go faster when riding down hills. I experience something very similar to what you are describing with a compenent on the drivetrain "slipping" when peddling with more force than normal while at higher speeds (>25mph). This has also almost caused me to fall on a couple occasions. I now resort to keeping my cadence to 80rpm or lower, which feels close to ghost peddling when going that fast, but prevents the drivetrain "slipping" and sudden jolt. I do feel the IGH try's to go to a higher gear, but then quickly jumps back to the slightly lower gear. Was curious if that simply the highest gear available or some other issue with the IGH. I had my LBS look at it once, but they were not able to recreate the issue. So I just learned to live with it as I know exactly when it occurs.
I am on v48 of the firmware. I was having this issue before the update though. The main reason why I did the update was an attempt to solve the above issue.
That's interesting! My cadences are similar at those speeds, but they were even lower when it was slipping. And at the time, I had the 24T rear cog and was able to hit 28mph at <80rpm if I recall...which was VERY unusual for that cog from what I read. So the uncalibrated gear ratio range must be a lot more than the claimed 380% (for example a ~400% mechanical range and they calibrate down to 380%, I guess not surprising since it needs to be calibrated). I also had some bad calibrations that require almost 100rpm to hit 28mph (belt too tight).
Anyway, with the 22T + new cal I have similar cadences to you, and I should have margin against slipping since I can have a lower gear ratio in hub courtesy of the new cog.
If you are running the 24T then swapping to the 22T might be the ticket to help prevent slipping. Glad to hear you didn't see any drastic changes with new FW!
Anyway, with the 22T + new cal I have similar cadences to you, and I should have margin against slipping since I can have a lower gear ratio in hub courtesy of the new cog.
If you are running the 24T then swapping to the 22T might be the ticket to help prevent slipping. Glad to hear you didn't see any drastic changes with new FW!
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