Undertaking legal actions against Watt Wagons

[onlineaddy]

The following are actions I've taken (and will take) against Watt Wagons (@pushkar) for failure to deliver a Helios bike and to refund me the remaining amount ($2799) of my preorder payment made on 9 April 2020:

• Sent 30-day demand letter, which WW received on 22 April. [18 April 2022]
• Filed a consumer complaint with the Massachusetts Attorney General's Office. [23 May 2022]
• Will seek legal counsel if WW continues to not respond, seeking triple damages, attorney's fees, interests, and costs.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Not sure what your trying to accomplish with this post. I understand why you feel the need to take legal action but putting it on here doesn’t help the situation any more. Just do what you feel is necessary.

 

[Mike_V]

Again:. Helios was Crowdfunding with a contact for both parties.
Show us what you signed, braggart.
Crowdfunding with a popular 'founders club' seems volatile yet saves the business by managing the refunds with contact terms.
Your theatrical keystroking effort from outside Massachusetts ( the land of laws ) may not yield a response after viewing the inter state contract you made.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

I websearch crowdfunding and from a brief definition I read, onlineaddy is an investor in Wattwagons by means of crowdfunding.
Wattwagons is now a profitable company judging by the new models of ebikes they are marketing and bikes they have delivered. @onlineaddy, he wants his investment (money) returned, in my opinion Wattwagons should have dutifully return it.
I can understand why he is asking for triple return plus interest.
He was more than willing to accept his investment no more no less back in 2021 October.
If WW would have done return his money. He would not have posted his means of drastic measures on EBR in order to get his money back.
And look where is Pushkar now? On the Lam?
And who is this Schmuck @Mike_V. Are you posing as Pushkar ? Trying to bully another member calling onlineaddy a
braggart. It's his play with a goal to get his hard earned money back let him play. Some people needs to stop being Pushkar defender he's not even around anymore ffs

Did you get your money refunded to you?

 

[Zachdds]

Again:. Helios was Crowdfunding with a contact for both parties.
Show us what you signed, braggart.
Crowdfunding with a popular 'founders club' seems volatile yet saves the business by managing the refunds with contact terms.
Your theatrical keystroking effort from outside Massachusetts ( the land of laws ) may not yield a response after viewing the inter state contract you made.

What contract? Not sure where you get your info, but it is wrong. To double check I went back and checked emails. I have one thanking me for my order and one finalizing specs in feb of 21 because bikes were to be shipped on 3 weeks. Certainly no signed contract. So I have no idea what you read but that person is not being honest with you.

It was who wants to prepay for a bike that was to be delivered in the fall of 2020.
It then switched to carbon with delivery in the winter of 20 or early spring of 21 based on worst case scenario.
Then it switched to full suspension carbon with delivery in fall of 21 and then it switched to we don’t know what it is going to look like or when it is going to be built. Or where it is going to be built.
Then refunds were said to be completed in feb. and now may.

And here we are with people blaming the customer who has been trying to get his money back for the last 6 months.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Keep in mind that by posting here you made your case more problematic.

 

[RMK!]

No place to better callout a business than a website Forum where the business owner spends a lot of time ...

 

[onlineaddy]

It is strange that my doing everything I can to get my money back is eliciting such vitriol. The Internet is such an interesting place. Regardless, I sincerely hope none of you experiences what I am experiencing and have been for over 2 years. I wouldn't want to wish it upon my worst enemy.

I'm leaving my post here to document my experience and to warn others of the perils of having any sort of business relationship with Watt Wagons and Pushkar Phatak. I'll just stick to the facts. I welcome any help in retrieving my money.

 

[Zachdds]

Keep in mind that by posting here you made your case more problematic.

How so?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

How so?

First off, I Am Not A Lawyer. Thank goodness.

So why do I think that?

By posting here, @onlineaddy made all of his posts, and arguably anybody else's posts, on this topic fair game in any lawsuit. By both sides. So he will now have to pay his lawyers to grovel through this site and look at all posts and decide if they are relevant. He might also inadvertently drag other people with no dog in this fight into this lawsuit, which at best won't earn him ay friends. And he alone has posted over 1200 messages on this board and if he ever said anything stupid or intemperate, or deleted any messages which might be stupid or intemperate, that gives the defense the opportunity to use that against him in negotiations and/or a trial. And if anybody else here said anything stupid or inappropriate that could be used as a way to explain the defendants actions. Given how many opinionated blowhards like myself are on this board, the odds of something useful turning up are pretty high.

The smart thing to do, if you are going to pursue legal action, is to not say anything at all, hire an attorney, and keep your mouth shut in a public forum.

 

[CodyDog]

I know a lot of folks will not like tis following statement....."When spending a lot of money on an ebike it is best to purchase from a LBS."

 

[Zachdds]

First off, I Am Not A Lawyer. Thank goodness.

So why do I think that?

By posting here, @onlineaddy made all of his posts, and arguably anybody else's posts, on this topic fair game in any lawsuit. By both sides. So he will now have to pay his lawyers to grovel through this site and look at all posts and decide if they are relevant. He might also inadvertently drag other people with no dog in this fight into this lawsuit, which at best won't earn him ay friends. And he alone has posted over 1200 messages on this board and if he ever said anything stupid or intemperate, or deleted any messages which might be stupid or intemperate, that gives the defense the opportunity to use that against him in negotiations and/or a trial. And if anybody else here said anything stupid or inappropriate that could be used as a way to explain the defendants actions. Given how many opinionated blowhards like myself are on this board, the odds of something useful turning up are pretty high.

The smart thing to do, if you are going to pursue legal action, is to not say anything at all, hire an attorney, and keep your mouth shut in a public forum.

I guess you think this is more complicated then I do. The company promised a bike in a timeframe and then promised a refund in a timeframe. Does it matter what else is said? Please use an example where something stupid could get watts wagon off the hook on this? There was no contract. It was an order placed and nothing ever produced. Just a bunch of people put up thousands of dollars.

The problem is the other way around. Ww used to post a bunch particularly in the private forum. Many promises were made as to the bike progress and timelines for the build and timelines for the refund. So far they are batting .000. Not having met a single one.

 

[RMK!]

Tough time to make stuff that is dependant upon a supply chain. The nightmare we are still experiencing continues and as always, the big dogs will eat first. Unfortunately for WW customers, WW is a very small dog.

 

[BashCram]

I’m not saying the supply chain issues and covid aren’t terrible, but watt wagons missed deadlines and issues with shifting focus started way before.

 

[Mike_V]

What contract? Not sure where you get your info, but it is wrong. To double check I went back and checked emails. I have one thanking me for my order and one finalizing specs in feb of 21 because bikes were to be shipped on 3 weeks. Certainly no signed contract. So I have no idea what you read but that person is not being honest with you.

It was who wants to prepay for a bike that was to be delivered in the fall of 2020.
It then switched to carbon with delivery in the winter of 20 or early spring of 21 based on worst case scenario.
Then it switched to full suspension carbon with delivery in fall of 21 and then it switched to we don’t know what it is going to look like or when it is going to be built. Or where it is going to be built.
Then refunds were said to be completed in feb. and now may.

And here we are with people blaming the customer who has been trying to get his money back for the last 6 months.

A refund for your electronic club membership?
Z & Liquidity, like you and hayfever invested in something intangible - a founders club .

 

[Mike_V]

Someone 'invested" in something found online amounting to "i found an ebike" advertisement club TBD = nothing but entertainment

 

[loamoaf]

Tough time to make stuff that is dependant upon a supply chain. The nightmare we are still experiencing continues and as always, the big dogs will eat first. Unfortunately for WW customers, WW is a very small dog.

I am a very small dog in the game and the longest I waited for parts during this pandemic was maybe 3 weeks or so waiting on made-to-order rims to get available space on an air freight, after about 4-5 weeks of lead time building the rims themselves. I placed an order for an M620 motor & goodies from GBK after the 100th time WW told me they were waiting on motors (this was when they said they had controllers, but then when they got motors in way later than they guessed they would they were magically out of controllers for my order - but not some other orders placed after mine, didn't set aside a controller for my order and it cost me another 6-7 months of not riding). My motor from GBK took 4 weeks from placing the order to arriving at my door step.

There are supply chain issues which I'm sure hit WW, but I think they really milked the pandemic for every opportunity to make an excuse. Now I know for a fact some Hayes group products (SRAM, Rockshox, Manitou, Hayes) were backordered 4-16 weeks, and DVO 6-8 weeks - but this is way out of the territory of what happened in my case. I was told in an email 2 days after my order there was a ~2 week lead, which seemed totally reasonable. I was not given any updates when those 2 weeks came and went, and instead of being honest about the reality of the situation, I was given a timeframe that was missed 4 more times without any updates. One of those times I was told a very blatant 'we will ship it this Friday' which was a flat out lie. Every time the expected date on my order was pushed back I received no update.

I spent an extra $65 on two-day shipping with USPS and requested WW contact me before shipment so I could give them an updated address (at the time I was waiting to get mail service set up at a new address and wasn't sure if I was going to have to get a PO box or have it shipped to a friend's place in the interim) - they shipped my item to my old address with 3-day UPS shipping and now I had to call UPS and spend $7.99 more to get my package diverted to a location that I will have to drive ~15 miles each way during the working week to get to. I'll be happpy when I have my motor in my hands tomorrow, more than 10 months after placing the order for it with the original promise and expectation that lead time would only be about 2 weeks.

As per the FTC a seller has an obligation to notify the customer if there's a delay from the expected ship date in order to provide an opportunity for them to accept the delay or cancel the order, and the seller can assume either way if they do not hear back within 30 days. The responsibility is not on the customer to chase down the seller and ensure their purchase order is fulfilled, it's on the seller to hold up their end of the contract by providing the promised product for the price advertised in or issue a complete refund. The customer paid money, it is now the seller's responsibility to provided the item purchased.

@Mike_V I am willing to bet some of my own hard earned money that the people who are awaiting refunds did not spend their money on some membership into a club that came with a complimentary bike. The bike is the product they were promised and that they purchased. The membership to the founder's group is a service secondary to the product. I am willing to bet everyone's receipt is for a bike and not club membership.

Most concerning to me as a customer who decided to stick with waiting on my promised product is the fraudulent reviews WW had posted on their Google maps listing. Even if I was not jerked around by them and got my purchase in a timely matter, this is not the type of behavior an honest busineness or person engages in, and I'm someone who is mindful of who I do business with. They did not hesitate to lie to me after they had my money, and they did not hesitate to lie about their business to the public in an attempt to salvage their image from very legitimate and very real reviews from actual customers with actual experience with the business who have been burned.

I am not a lawyer but I've watched a lot of Criminal Minds. I don't think that show actually shows much lawyering but it gave me a false sense of confidence that I could murder someone and not get caught by a charming cast of special agents, at least for the first couple murders. I also read the FTC's page regarding these type of situations, which I shall link here (screw it I posted snips of the page for posterity).

Selling on the Internet: Prompt Delivery Rules

The Internet is the fastest growing source of mail order sales. It's estimated that consumers spent $200 billion on Internet-based goods and services in 2008. The explosive growth in the goods and services sold online has in the past, taken many online sellers by surprise: demand has outpaced...

www.ftc.gov

 

[Johnny]

I don't know the legal side things and I understand the supply chain issues. However I think WW should understand the investor side of things and make sure to refund their money asap. This is really not looking good for you at this point.

 

[Zachdds]

There was no investor or club. The board was formed to help brainstorm the ideal components for a “super bike” and to keep customers informed on the progress. It worked great until what was being promised never materialized.

I don’t know you mike, but you literally have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe just being a troll, but from the talks of a couple of the founding members, they need their money more then Pushkar does. One of them in particular has fallen on some hard times and should not have to beg and hire an attorney to get back the money he spent on a bike that never came.

All I hear is poor watts wagon. Covid issues, supply chain. They have had the use of tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand dollars interest free for 2 years. For every call out on this board, there are many more on the private forum that go unanswered. Same with emails, contact on their website. As the ftc rules above state, if you cannot fulfill the order within 30 days of promised then you must issue a prompt refund. 6 months and counting is not a prompt refund.

Below is the closest thing I could find to the ground rules that were set up. The summer he is talking about was 2020.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

This is not a topic that can or should be constructively resolved on a public message board. Somebody has to pull the trigger and hire a lawyer to figure out what can be done. Chances are you are going to have to talk to a lawyer to get a reference for a lawyer that can take the case. Right or wrong, fair or not, you might not as a practical matter be able to recover the funds put up. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

This is all hot air until somebody hires a lawyer.