Undertaking legal actions against Watt Wagons

tomjasz said:
I received a WW Rita frame with studded tires to review as a winter ice bike. Unfortunately at the same time I had serious eye problems and needed surgery and 8-12 weeks of no physical stress recovery. So an $8000 bike sat in my shop for months before I had to finally and sadly return the bike. Of course this in no way gives any investor any real relief, but in my experience the founder is a straight up honest fellow completely victimized by a civic nightmare. Anyone a reseller during the last 3 year knows what a nightmare this has been for a startup. FFS look at Ravi and Zen. Years behind their hope for viable products. If you lay on the bleeding edge, expect to bleed.
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Sounds like retina detachment. I've had several. It was Dental Anesthesia and is somewhat common.
Regardless, having come near blindness, my commiserations. Another thing I'm grateful for. That I can see.
Totally well spoken.
In a paradigm shift, 'time and unforeseen circumstance befall us all'.
 
tomjasz said:
I received a WW Rita frame with studded tires to review as a winter ice bike. Unfortunately at the same time I had serious eye problems and needed surgery and 8-12 weeks of no physical stress recovery. So an $8000 bike sat in my shop for months before I had to finally and sadly return the bike. Of course this in no way gives any investor any real relief, but in my experience the founder is a straight up honest fellow completely victimized by a civic nightmare. Anyone a reseller during the last 3 year knows what a nightmare this has been for a startup. FFS look at Ravi and Zen. Years behind their hope for viable products. If you lay on the bleeding edge, expect to bleed.
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Hey Tom, what's a 'Rita frame'?

Fn'F
 
tomjasz said:
FFS look at Ravi and Zen. Years behind their hope for viable products. If you lay on the bleeding edge, expect to bleed.
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Unlike Pushkar/WW, Ravi/Zen refunded deposits in a timely fashion. It's all about how you conduct yourself as a business owner in the face of adversity that commands trust & loyalty from your customers.
 
One of the main differences between Ravi/Zen and WW is that WW raised money from bike orders, while Ravi raised money from investors.
I think the main reason Pushkar is not refunding deposits in a timely manner is that he doesn't have the funds.
 
Deacon Blues said:
One of the main differences between Ravi/Zen and WW is that WW raised money from bike orders, while Ravi raised money from investors.
I think the main reason Pushkar is not refunding deposits in a timely manner is that he doesn't have the funds.
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Crowd funding, Sondors does the same thing. Funds from orders are used to purchase parts to build the bikes. When an order is cancelled, the bike has to be sold again or parts returned for the original purchaser to get a refund. At least that’s how I understand it.
 
As far as I know everyone on here asking for a refund has been fine with the schedule that watts wagon gives them. Usually 90 days.

That time frame comes and goes. The communication stops and the customer now is wondering where they stand. Short of Rome, I have not seen anyone complain before the time that Pushkar has asked for has expired. Not sure what they are supposed to do. This is an awful company.
 
Nobody actually has an issue or did I miss something? Someone asked if refunds had come thru and I replied with an affirmative. Didn't take long for the thread vultures to descend though!
 
Oh I guess I missed a post in a new thread. Sounds like one founder requesting a refund didn't get their final refund? Prior to that they last posted in the founder forum 5 months ago they didn't get their final installment, but also said they hadn't followed up. Not sure what to make of that. I guess they eventually followed up. Strange to see nothing in the founder forum for 5 months.
 
Looks like I was exactly a man of my word. I thought all founders were square. I left. Not a peep. Unlike the owner of this company, I do my very best to do what I say I will. Yet you would rather try to call me out than this crappy company that continues to act in a criminal way. Yes I feel like keeping people’s money for months after promising a refund is stealing.

Now a founder is saying that it has been radio silence for 6 months and resorting to courts to get their money. Not the last installment. He says he hasn’t gotten a cent yet.

That is awful. I understand you are willing to ride it out, but to see a guy be out 5k going on 3 years. That is wrong. Defending this company is wrong. There is no founders bike. Belt. Rohloff. Double battery. Massive weight racks. None of that is on the table or at least in any meaningful way. Refunds were promised. Timeframes came and went. As I said bad company.
 
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No, that founder is NOT out 5K. That's not an accurate depiction of the situation. They haven't been paid their final installment, and in the founder forum 5 months ago they posted they hadn't seen it but also said they hadn't followed up. For all we know they dragged their feet following up and by then the funds were not available. It's pretty clear that cash flow is very thin and WW is doing what they can to keep the company a going concern, paying back those that are owed money and unwilling to wait for a bike. You are not helping by saying this is ia horrible company. How the F does that help anyone get paid back? You're just being vindictive. As TJ said in the other thread we don't know s*it about the specifics. Maybe they followed up right away on the missing final installment and WW just decided to F them over. Or maybe they snoozed for too long and lost out on the window to get paid back sooner. Should all this be swept under the rug? No, prospective customers buy with eyes wide open. Pay with a credit card. Protect yourself. They seem to be taking care of new purchasers as far as I can tell. For those I've personally helped purchase bikes from WW (with full disclosure of their financial situation) I've only had positive feedback in terms of their experience dealing with this company.
 
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Never had an issue with WW and their customer service. Bought two bikes from them and would buy a third if I had the funds. Fully understanding that I would have an extended wait time. Hell they even helped me with a battery situation which was clearly my fault when they didn‘t have to.
 
Cuz Vinny said:
Never had an issue with WW and their customer service. Bought two bikes from them and would buy a third if I had the funds. Fully understanding that I would have an extended wait time. Hell they even helped me with a battery situation which was clearly my fault when they didn‘t have to.
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Your comment really sums up what is a BIG part of WW's problem-some customers are treated very well, while others are not.
To bash customers who have not been treated well is disingenuous to say the least (not that you've bashed anyone, Cuz Vinny...others come to mind).
I can not, for the life of me, figure out why Pushkar will, at times, answer every one of my text messages promptly and other times ignore my texts and emails for weeks.
Like you, I have purchased multiple bikes from him, but unlike you there are still times when I can not get him to respond to my inquires.

My wife asked me a while ago, "Why would anyone buy a bike from someone who treats many of his customers so poorly?"
I didn't have a good answer, but if this way of dealing with paid customers continues Pushkar's business will fail, and that's something I do not want to see happen.

I realize his margins are razor thin and he most likely can't repay customers who cancel their orders because of long wait times because he doesn't have the funds, but ignoring them is NOT the way to deal with this problem.
I have personally told him this, but I don't think it sunk in.

My advice has been to never ignore a customer and be honest them them. If you don't have the funds for a refund let them know. Personally, I'd rather be told I can't be repaid because the funds are not available than to be ignored.
I've told him in one of our phone conversations, but nothing has changed.
@pushkar, DO NOT IGNORE YOUR CUSTOMERS!
He's also got to stop having his frames built in China. That has been a complete disaster China not the place for future business ventures and Pushkar needs to look for other sources/countries.
 
Deacon Blues said:
I didn't have a good answer,
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The biggest lesson for me doing support for nearly a decade is realizing there are ALWAYS parts of the posted story left out or totally twisted. Heck I got hate email for calling a EBR member with an order problem because I called while he was eulogizing his father. HTF should I have known and why did the Dick have a phone on at daddies funeral. This is the result of hiding behind a nom de plume. Keyboard warriors.
 
TomD said:
No, that founder is NOT out 5K. That's not an accurate depiction of the situation. They haven't been paid their final installment, and in the founder forum 5 months ago
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I guess you know better than I do. I was just basing it off the poster saying, “Nope, still a helios founder here, without a penny of a refund.”

Maybe he is lying. Always seems like an honorable poster on the founders forum. Maybe he forgot about the first 4K. Or maybe just maybe Pushkar is ghosting a customer he owes money to. I know which pattern I have seen before. No matter funds available, parts to refund, bikes to build, you have to at least respond to the customer so that’s a solution can be reached. Maybe he was late to respond to refund. Who knows the details, but I do not doubt the part of the story that watts wagon is now ignoring him. Do you?

So unless you have talked to the founder and have some knowledge that he is making it up, stop following me around telling me that I am wrong and to get facts straight. You might have watts wagon favored status, but you reading skills are struggling.

As for my calling them a terrible company, that is my opinion. This is a message board. Good companies are available to both happy and upset customers. For watts wagon when the going gets tough. They go silent. You know that part is true. You are willing to pretend like it is just a small problem for a broke company. I think it is the sign of a bad business. If watts wagon would fix that part of their business, I would no longer think that they were a crappy company.
 
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Sounds like you've had your Helios on order longer 'n I've been riding.
I've terrible luck. Used to being 'shined on' for complaining - at any level; conditioned to just move on with the plan, I pick my battles; constantly failing, but never losing - within the depth of my commitment.
No Joke, that strata contains our differences between meekly abandoning all rights and killing as hard as able and trained to prevail.
-
We all have the same spectrums.
Only two excuses for failure exist: 1. I didn't know and/ or 2. I can't remember what I did know.
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WattWagons satisfied customers don't have "watts wagon favored status".
NO. We're not all in on it.
Inferring anyone thinks: WW is suffering "just a small problem for a broke company" is bullshit.
They're a small shop of skilled craftsmen trying to make a living in interesting times.
Because I have bad luck, etc., I'm not too sympathetic with whining.
I don't know these folks from Adam's housecat. I think the second question I asked them was 'why the fork was on backwards' - seriously - and incidentally. How dare they not answer dumbass me ?
Maybe life gets you more ideals by insisting on satisfaction, but when you have bad luck you come to know how to compromise, within your spectrum.
The enemies of satisfaction are: expectations; rigidity; impatience; entitlement; stubbornness and certainty.
If I was you (Damn I hate that phrase as I've utmost respect for you, knowing so much more than I), I'd transfer my funds into a different machine.
I speak veracity. Made it clear I was flexible and got my custom bike - out of the ether.
Ownership having set in, I'm totally fixed and building it my way.
You: a Big-dog; knowledgeable; experienced; know exactly what you want and brooking no dissent.
WTF ??? Sumthin's wrong w/ this picture and it ain't the 'pampered few' that succeeded.
I submit: A Hydra will clean the Helios' clock. Forget the cheesy rack. Use old innertubes and 'C ' Clamps. Make your own. Same weight limits. Unless you're Wheel-Chair bound and can't fart without pressing ready-made buttons.
WW's number one priority is to get YOU on the road.
If your priority coincides, they're there for you. You want 'pig in a poke', that's on you to wait 'till it's catchable. Nit-picking and whining, fantasies of how 'you'd do it' aside, you know you'd FAIL.
Man up, start your own company with grandiose morality, but stop talking trash, fix your expectations and quit pretending this isn't your personal problem.

Fn'F
 
onlineaddy said:
Unlike Pushkar/WW, Ravi/Zen refunded deposits in a timely fashion. It's all about how you conduct yourself as a business owner in the face of adversity that commands trust & loyalty from your customers.
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So, you want timely refunds, shop there.
WW Has the trust and loyalty of this CONFIRMED customer. Who are you in Mom's basement?
For me it's all about who builds the right s*it, not who comes rushing to my emotional rescue when I have a fem breakdown that I couldn't get my way 😭.
Who are you🤡? What refund of yours was un-timely ??? What bullshit.
How many thousands bikes WW's created - and we have a couple crybabies you're 'fanboying'.

LOL
 
Cuz Vinny said:
Not sure what your trying to accomplish with this post. I understand why you feel the need to take legal action but putting it on here doesn’t help the situation any more. Just do what you feel is necessary.
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I think he is correct. Inless there is some accountability by Ww, every potential customer should be warned. Buyer beware!
 
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