Ultra motor continues to run

[greeno]

Okay I have a head scratcher here.

Purchased an Ultra motor (1000w) with the Archon X1 upgrade about two years ago.
Modified some of the preset programable settings when I first recieved the unit right after building my bike up.

All fine until yesterday, sort-of.
I was climbing up a kinda narrow single track out in the east county, kinda narrow and slick, big drop-off on outer side.
Using level 2 PAS and spinning a big gear in the rear.
I do not have brake cut-offs. I do have a thumb throttle.

Going around a tight corner the motor goes to FULL POWER.

Luckily I was able to hit the brakes to keep from going over the side but the motor was still wanting to turn.
So I kept one hand on the rear brake and turned off the display, killing all power.
Resituated myself and the bike to see what the F--- happened.

So I turn the display back on which defaults to level 1 PAS and I get full power again. So I drop the PAS to 0 and motor stops turning.
Thinking that my throttle is somehow stuck on I unplugged it from the harness.
Turn it back on and it wants to run again, WTF.

Sooo I turn around and with the power off I proceeded to ride the approx 1 mile back mostly downhill so I don't whisky over the edge to the riverbed at the bottom knowing I have about a 3 mile or so climb back up to the service road I dropped down on.

So I plug the throttle back in since that didn't make any difference before and turn the display back on thinking maybe I can somehow brake enough to slow the motor to climb out of there.

Display comes back on at level 1 PAS and nothing, which is good, weird and different but good.
So I switch to level 2, 3 and 4 and nothing, still good.
Try the thumb throttle and it goes on and off like it should.

So I start my climb in level 3 PAS since it's kinda technical and has some steeper sections which are easier going down than up and finish up the rest of the ride with absolutely no issues.

No error codes on display (750C) and everything is running normal.

So it must be an intermittent problem, the easiest kind to diagnose as you guys well know.

Controller issue? Harness issue?
Maybe torque sensor. But power was full on with display on and when off the bike and zero pressure on the pedals so maybe that one's a stretch.
Display?

Issue started after climbing continuously for 20 minutes or so. But my wattage level never really was high for any length of time so I don't think that the motor overheated. Iv'e made longer harder climbs than this one and everything was fine.

So guess just to be safe I'll get a spare controller or a bare bones motor ( UART) style to have on the shelf in case I run into this problem again.

Funny most threads started on most sites are for items NOT working mine was just the opposite but just as problematic.

 

[greeno]

The motor went into full power mode when I was off the bike as well as when I unplugged it. So I think that takes the throttle causing it out of the picture. It did it numerous times. Just turning on the display caused it to take off if it was in PAS 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.
In PAS 0 nothing.
Turned off display and restarted.
Even unplugged battery from motor. Made no difference.
I just figured a controller issue so like I stated I just coasted for the most part back down to the valley floor.
My riding partner for that day has the same exact bike as mine with the same WW motor/controller combo except his is the higher wattage version and he couldn't figure out the cause either.
So after regrouping at the bottom and weighing my options on climbing out I decided to try it one more time and thought maybe I could just ride the brakes and maintain enough control not to kill myself and everything went back to normal. PAS was working normal, throttle too.
Made the ascent up and out without any problems.

Ordered a replacement controller today that I can swap out in the future if it happens again. For the time being I am also going to change out my display to another spare 750C, replace the thumb throttle, and install a spare main cable harness so hopefully covering all the bases as far as isolating the defect if it happens again.

 

[TDA78]

This sounds like an intermittent short circuit between the throttle wire and a 5V wire. Especially since the problem doesn't happen in PAS 0. The short could be in the harness or the motor. Look for any wires pinched during installation. The silicone insulation on the motor wires can split when pinched but look okay when pressure is removed. Good luck!

 

[greeno]

Just odd that the issue went away right after showing up.
Didn't crash or alter the wiring positions as far as I can tell.
I will be swapping out the parts I listed above and we'll see how it goes.

 

[greeno]

Got 3 more rides in since my "issue" happened. So far all I have done is swap my 750C display for my 500 and all has been good.
Still think it's a controller glitch but we'll see.
Got my new controller today and it came already mounted inside the removable motor housing so if I ever need to use it all I have to do is unplug/replug the three phase wires and reassemble. Even came with a new gasket, nice.

Make sure to check the wiring for any issues. Mine had a couple of slices in the insulation, easy fix but could of caused a problem if installed and came into contact with the housing.

 

[JRA]

When I thought I had a controller fail on my M620 awhile ago when I contacted LUNA to see about a replacement they had me send them the motor so it could be re-calibrated, or something to that effect, after swapping controllers via a special electronic gadget that I found to be unobtanium. Luckily that wasn't it in the end but the fact that one of the Anderson tabs had backed out and wasn't making contact.......so you might want to look into that?

 

[greeno]

The Anderson power connection isn't the problem, in fact I replaced the pos and neg wires and have a male XT90 connector that is long enough to fit up inside the downtube which makes installing/uninstalling the motor alot easier. Like I said above the problem has not surfaced again.
But if it does I have all the pieces to systematically replace one item at a time if need be.

 

[tomjasz]

I do not have brake cut-offs.

Critical error.

 

[JRA]

Sorry I wasn't clear that the Anderson's were my problem I was referring to calibration issue when installing a new controller? I just did a quick search but couldn't come up with what I found when I was having controller issues....looks like you have it covered.

 

[AHicks]

I'm with Tom above. If you haven't already, I'd be seriously considering a set of brake cut offs..... or at least a kill switch.

 

[greeno]

Started off on my first e bike and had the brake cut-outs. Quickly disliked how they would kill power if say for example climbing up a technical section and having to brake a bit to correct course and then NOT having that extra push made for some problems. Never have had an instance where I wished I had them,
To each his own if you guys like em rock on but their not for me.
Rarely do I even use my thumb throttle, I know some guys are all over them and use them quite a bit.

Those anderson connectors have a way of sliding apart since they kinda clip together. I know they make a small "C" type holding pin that fits into those small holes to physically hold the male and female body together. Not having the main power connection on top of my motor makes it easier for me to install. Thats just me.

 

[tomjasz]

Started off on my first e bike and had the brake cut-outs. Quickly disliked how they would kill power if say for example climbing up a technical section and having to brake a bit to correct course and then NOT having that extra push made for some problems. Never have had an instance where I wished I had them,

Until now, dumb and dumber.

 

[greeno]

In your opinion. Not mine.
Why do you think I have a bike with a 1500w motor? It's to utilize that extra power for my benefit.
If I wanted a bike to just give a little extra push I would of got a bike with a 250w motor.

Maybe having some cut-outs would of possibly help keep the bike in check but holding the front brake was fine. Still feel it is a controller issue. No way of knowing for sure, water under the bridge since I didn't have them.

Im sorry some of the fellas on here seem to think they know what's best for everybody.
If you want to ride a bike that has the brake cut-outs and lowered assist levels to make starting off more gradual for your style of riding have at it.

 

[tomjasz]

Im sorry some of the fellas on here seem to think they know what's best for everybody.

Nah, some of us are just old, old enough, and experienced enough to know better.

 

[AHicks]

In your opinion. Not mine.
Why do you think I have a bike with a 1500w motor? It's to utilize that extra power for my benefit.
If I wanted a bike to just give a little extra push I would of got a bike with a 250w motor.

Maybe having some cut-outs would of possibly help keep the bike in check but holding the front brake was fine. Still feel it is a controller issue. No way of knowing for sure, water under the bridge since I didn't have them.

Im sorry some of the fellas on here seem to think they know what's best for everybody.
If you want to ride a bike that has the brake cut-outs and lowered assist levels to make starting off more gradual for your style of riding have at it.

Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, I'm just not following the cut off switch hesitancy.

Is the motor not getting it's power restored immediately when the brake is released? If your hand is pulling on the brake handle, why would you want power to the motor? Are you dragging the front brake and then using power to slide the back around?

 

[JRA]

Ran across this video that starting at 7:54 touches on the need for a new controller to be calibrated and the part, not the BESST tool, to perform that function and why LUNA had me send them my motor to perform it with their screen. One would assume that the motors are properly calibrated to their controllers at the factory in this manner also.

As an aside this guy's project seemed epic and $$$. Although the welds look proper on the new mount I would be very wary of them holding long term without heat treatment......

 

[greeno]

Yes you do need the separate 961 display with the software to access the programming file. Easy.
Correct the Best tool programer will not work with this motor.

 

[Taylor57]

Ran across this video that starting at 7:54 touches on the need for a new controller to be calibrated and the part, not the BESST tool, to perform that function and why LUNA had me send them my motor to perform it with their screen. One would assume that the motors are properly calibrated to their controllers at the factory in this manner also.

As an aside this guy's project seemed epic and $$$. Although the welds look proper on the new mount I would be very wary of them holding long term without heat treatment......

It looks like the Frey CC I used to own. Why did he have to remove the motor? Replacing controller?

 

[TPEHAK]

It looks like the Frey CC I used to own. Why did he have to remove the motor? Replacing controller?

He shortened the wires on the controller when he installed the motor into the frame and damaged the controller (the motor did not work) so he bought the new controller.