Tuning Vado SL with Mission Control app

[Dave1520]

I have been playing around with tuning the 3 assist modes on my Vado SL 4.0 using the Mission Control app. Has anyone done this and if so, can you share your settings and how well they work Or why you set then that way?

Wanting to try different settings that others have found useful.

 

[BEC111]

I’ve been playing but have not yet made permanent changes. I’ve used the smart control which has helped me understand how different amounts of assist affect riding experience. I’ve looked at how others use the settings but am not yet ready to make changes.

One feature I may try first is creating new custom presets for different routes. Not sure this works, not what those settings might be, but I can envision a Eco2 setting at something like 40/75 for longer semi-flat rides where a bit more assist might be useful.

oh my, I mig(t need to do a lot more riding to test all this out. Good activity during COVID-19.

 

[Nubnub]

I also have a Vado SL 4.0 and have adjusted the assist modes a bit. Most of my riding has been in default eco 35/35 settings. This has provided enough assist that I can ride faster/easier than on my <20 lb road bike. I believe these settings will provide a max assist of 35%*240W or 84 W. My cruising speed on flat ground I am normally below 200 W rider input so I'm not even getting max assist from ECO mode. When going uphill, I will exceed 200 W and anything over 240 W would max out the motor assist in ECO 35 settings.

And also because I was annoyed that the default startup is Sport mode, I changed the Sport mode setting to 30/100. So now if I hit an uphill and need more assist than ECO provides I can get it. As an example if I produce 400 W - then 35/35 maxes out at 84 W assist. At 30/100 it provides 120 W assist. I've done A/B comparisons between the two settings and can feel the additional assist. So no need to change assist levels for times when my rider output exceeds 240 W. And because the support level is 30, I still do not drain the battery more than ECO when cruising normally. I will probably keep the 30/100 setting as my default and play around with changing the former eco setting (1) to an extended hill climb mode. There is a nearby hill that is 2000 feet rise in 5 miles - about 7% average with many 12-14% sections. Right now, it is a workout even in turbo 100/100 mode. But for lesser climbs, I think I will also want something more than 30/100 but less than 100/100.

 

[BEC111]

Thanks for your efforts and insights. I’ve been struggling to understand how the assist works in this context and your experience has really helped.

 

[Dave1520]

Here is a YouTube video I found on the subject:

 

[Kaskades]

I am on a Vado SL 5.0 now with 90 commuting miles on the odometer. I tuned the Mission Control App as follows: Echo 20/35 Sport 35/60 and Turbo 60/100. So far it's working out for me. I am getting assist but also a nice workout on the bike. I mainly use "Eco" on my 8 mile commute and average 13 mph. I mostly treat the assist as a replacement for a 3 ring front de-railer on an anolog bike

This was an upgrade from a powerful Izip E3 Moda ebike that I recently sold that weighed 55 lbs but put out some power. I could actually ride faster on it than my new Vado SL but did not get much exercise.

 

[Nxkharra]

Here is a YouTube video I found on the subject:

He is not very clear.

 

[Phyz]

So easy to mess around with. Right now my settings on my Vado 4.0 are
E: 20-40
S: 40-80
T: 80-100

I’m happy with them for now. But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

 

[Dave1520]

I am noticing many of you have sequential settings without overlapping ranges. The ones I have messed with so far have overlapping ranges. I am going to try straight up sequential next ride. Thanks for the responses.

 

[larrybike]

I am trying to better understand how assist ramps up within a range given by support and peak. For instance, if I defined Sport settings as 40 Support and 70 Peak my current understanding is that if I had a cadence of 80 without a lot of effort and switched to Sport mode, I would immediately get the 40% boost. However, what I don't understand is how it ramps to 70 peak. It's the ramping function I'm interested in. Any insights?

 

[Nubnub]

The Vado SL is advertised as 2 times you. That is at full 100% support turbo mode. At 35% eco or your 40% support it will be proportionally less. Furthermore the peak power setting will limit the amount of assistance to a per centage of the peak motor power available. So if you are going up a steep hill in eco mode, your effort may call for 200 W of motor assist, but the 35% peak setting will limit the available boost. In this case you would feel a dramatic increase in assist in switching to 40% support 70% peak. At low efforts of rider power, the peak power limit doesn't come into play since you are not asking the motor to provide much assist. In Eco mode of 35% support, I don't experience any diffence in different peak power levels until I exceed around 150 W 3 sec avg rider power as shown on my garmin. I have eco default of 35/35 and sport is 30/100. At around 150 W I can feel the difference immediately upon changing from eco to sport mode. At above 200 W, the difference is very noticeable and also immediate.

The ramp to peak power is dependent on how much rider power u are generating. Faster cadence will generate more power as will added pressure on the pedals such as when going uphill or against a headwind. Since these conditions are generally not low effort, I feel the difference immediately upon switching to 30/100 from 35/35 mode.

 

[larrybike]

Your explanation is very clear, thank you. I will take this information and experiment with tuning to my riding style. I love this feature.

 

[BEC111]

The Vado SL is advertised as 2 times you. That is at full 100% support turbo mode. At 35% eco or your 40% support it will be proportionally less. Furthermore the peak power setting will limit the amount of assistance to a per centage of the peak motor power available. So if you are going up a steep hill in eco mode, your effort may call for 200 W of motor assist, but the 35% peak setting will limit the available boost. In this case you would feel a dramatic increase in assist in switching to 40% support 70% peak. At low efforts of rider power, the peak power limit doesn't come into play since you are not asking the motor to provide much assist. In Eco mode of 35% support, I don't experience any diffence in different peak power levels until I exceed around 150 W 3 sec avg rider power as shown on my garmin. I have eco default of 35/35 and sport is 30/100. At around 150 W I can feel the difference immediately upon changing from eco to sport mode. At above 200 W, the difference is very noticeable and also immediate.

The ramp to peak power is dependent on how much rider power u are generating. Faster cadence will generate more power as will added pressure on the pedals such as when going uphill or against a headwind. Since these conditions are generally not low effort, I feel the difference immediately upon switching to 30/100 from 35/35 mode.

I agree. Excellent explanation that clarifies my understanding of my tests.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The Vado SL is advertised as 2 times you. That is at full 100% support turbo mode.

Very nice and clear explanation.

Vado SL is not the "heavy" Vado, so I cannot make any advice. Let me show you how that works with my 1.2s motor equipped "power Vado" and my poor legs:

The 1.2s motor offers maximum motor power of 520 W if your cadence is over 80 rpm. My legs can provide constant 100 W when I'm fresh, 150 W when I really need it, and 80 W when I'm tired.

100% of Max Motor Power is 520 W. Maximum rider leg's amplification with that motor is 320% (3.2 times).

Here are my custom modes developed for use on long trips with a spare 604 Wh battery in the pannier:

Long Ride, Two Battery Setup Scenario

• Steroid Eco: 40/50. On constant pedalling, the motor power is: leg power * 3.2 (320%) * 0.4 (40%) = leg power * 1.28. When I constantly provide 100 W, the motor power would be 100 * 1.28 = 128 W. However, the motor power ceiling is at 50%, that is 520 W * 0.5 = 260 W. If I provide 150 W by hard pedal treading, the motor will provide 192 W, which is within the power limit.
• Super Sport: 50/70. The amplification factor is 3.2 * 0.5 = 1.6. With 100 W rider's input, the motor will yield 160 W. With 150 W input, the motor produces 150 * 1.6 = 240 W. which is still inside the limit of 520 * 0.7 = 364 W.
• Full Turbo: 100/100. The amplification factor is 3.2. Provide 100 W yourself and the motor will help you with 320 W of power. Provide 150 W and you'll get 480 W of support, still within the 520 W max motor power.

I can only tell you riding in the Steroid Eco on the flat guarantees me the range of 80.2 km (50 mi) sharp with the 604 Wh battery, good roads, mild wind, Summer conditions, few stops.

Short, Fast Ride (Tired Legs) Scenario:

• Power Eco: 50/70. Amplification factor of 1.6, maximum motor power 364 W. 80 W leg input, 128 W of assistance. In case 150 W can be provided by the rider, the max motor assistance will be 240 W for the short effort burst.
• Power Sport: 70/100. Amplification factor of 2.24. Maximum motor power of 520 W. 80 W leg input will yield 179 W from the motor, a 150 W burst will result in 336 W of assistance.
• Full Turbo: 100/100. Amplification factor of 3.2, max motor power of 520 W. Tired 80 W legs will be assisted with 256 W of motor. The 150 W burst will yield 480 W, still within the 520 W ceiling.

1. Now, many people sport stronger legs than mine. If @Nubnub provides 200 W of power and rides in Full Turbo mode, the motor should give him 640 W of power but it cannot do it, so 520 W will be provided by the motor max
2. The latest 1.3 motor also maxes out at 520 W but the max amplification factor is 3.6. It favours weaker riders. Strong riders are advised to significantly decrease the assistance levels with Mission Control for far better range and only necessary pedalling assistance.
3. The 1.1 SL motor has max power of 240 W, and the amplification factor is 2.0 or less. SL bikes are for fit people with strong legs.

 

[larrybike]

Very nice and clear explanation.

Vado SL is not the "heavy" Vado, so I cannot make any advice. Let me show you how that works with my 1.2s motor equipped "power Vado" and my poor legs:

The 1.2s motor offers maximum motor power of 520 W if your cadence is over 80 rpm. My legs can provide constant 100 W when I'm fresh, 150 W when I really need it, and 80 W when I'm tired.

100% of Max Motor Power is 520 W. Maximum rider leg's amplification with that motor is 320% (3.2 times).

Here are my custom modes developed for use on long trips with a spare 604 Wh battery in the pannier:

Long Ride, Two Battery Setup Scenario

• Steroid Eco: 40/50. On constant pedalling, the motor power is: leg power * 3.2 (320%) * 0.4 (40%) = leg power * 1.28. When I constantly provide 100 W, the motor power would be 100 * 1.28 = 128 W. However, the motor power ceiling is at 50%, that is 520 W * 0.5 = 260 W. If I provide 150 W by hard pedal treading, the motor will provide 192 W, which is within the power limit.
• Super Sport: 50/70. The amplification factor is 3.2 * 0.5 = 1.6. With 100 W rider's input, the motor will yield 160 W. With 150 W input, the motor produces 150 * 1.6 = 240 W. which is still inside the limit of 520 * 0.7 = 364 W.
• Full Turbo: 100/100. The amplification factor is 3.2. Provide 100 W yourself and the motor will help you with 320 W of power. Provide 150 W and you'll get 480 W of support, still within the 520 W max motor power.

I can only tell you riding in the Steroid Eco on the flat guarantees me the range of 80.2 km (50 mi) sharp with the 604 Wh battery, good roads, mild wind, Summer conditions, few stops.

Short, Fast Ride (Tired Legs) Scenario:

• Power Eco: 50/70. Amplification factor of 1.6, maximum motor power 364 W. 80 W leg input, 128 W of assistance. In case 150 W can be provided by the rider, the max motor assistance will be 240 W for the short effort burst.
• Power Sport: 70/100. Amplification factor of 2.24. Maximum motor power of 520 W. 80 W leg input will yield 179 W from the motor, a 150 W burst will result in 336 W of assistance.
• Full Turbo: 100/100. Amplification factor of 3.2, max motor power of 520 W. Tired 80 W legs will be assisted with 256 W of motor. The 150 W burst will yield 480 W, still within the 520 W ceiling.

1. Now, many people sport stronger legs than mine. If @Nubnub provides 200 W of power and rides in Full Turbo mode, the motor should give him 640 W of power but it cannot do it, so 520 W will be provided by the motor max
2. The latest 1.3 motor also maxes out at 520 W but the max amplification factor is 3.6. It favours weaker riders. Strong riders are advised to significantly decrease the assistance levels with Mission Control for far better range and only necessary pedalling assistance.
3. The 1.1 SL motor has max power of 240 W, and the amplification factor is 2.0 or less. SL bikes are for fit people with strong legs.

Great information, thank you. I have been experimenting on a Turbo Vado 4.0. I rode the SL for a few days and exchanged it for the Turbo Vado. Reason was that the SL, a great bike, was not quite what I wanted for longer rides. The Vado 4.0 gives me something very different from my analog ride. It's a blast to ride.

Nevertheless, I adjusted Eco mode to 20/35 and rode my 10 mile (small rolling hills) test route to compare with factory settings from yesterday's ride. I eased back my speed by 2mph (18mph average), kept cadence at 80-85, stayed in Eco mode and found I used 5% less battery. The ride was very easy on my legs. I am gaining much more appreciation for the variances of rides you can create by tuning.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The ride was very easy on my legs. I am gaining much more appreciation for the variances of rides you can create by tuning.

Vado is a great bike because it lets, inter alia, fully tune the motor. Every rider has own preferences: you prefer longer range, I need more assistance. Vado is indeed a powerful bike and can fit the needs of any cyclist! You can even swap the Mode settings so your Eco mode replaces the Sport mode as the default one!

Interestingly, Giant e-bikes are very fixed on their setting, so for instance the PAS 2 level (called ECO or BASIC) can only be adjusted between 100 and 200%. If you need less assistance, you need to go to PAS 1 (called ECO+ or ECO) with assistance 0-100% and so on, where 360% is the max amplification factor. You can do it only in 25% increments. Compared to that, Vado shines, even if it only has three assist levels while Giant sports five.

 

[Nubnub]

100% of Max Motor Power is 520 W. Maximum rider leg's amplification with that motor is 320% (3.2 times).
...
The 1.1 SL motor has max power of 240 W, and the amplification factor is 2.0 or less. SL bikes are for fit people with strong legs.

Your examples bring up a question I've been meaning to ask the group. The marketing line is Vado is 4 times you and the SL is 2 times you. I also remember seeing somewhere that the SL is actually 1.8 times as a max. If I were to convert your example to the SL, would I then use an amplification factor of .8?

So in Eco 35%, legpower * .8 * .4 = motor power. At 100 W legpower -> 32 W motor power. I know my garmin power readings aren't necessarily accurate, but for an hr at average 150 W the motor power consumption would be 48 Wh at 100% efficiency and steady power. This is about 15% of the SL's 320 Wh battery and I know it uses more than this - I haven't kept close track but I believe it would be around 25%. How efficient does the motor convert battery power to mechanical power? I also know the average is just an average and that having to stop and restart will cause spikes in motor power usage. I'll pay a little more attention to battery power % used vs average power - but I think the .8 amplification factor is right for the SL.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is a night-time at my place and I can't think clear. I haven't seen the actual 1.1 motor data, for example the maximum power. Have to think about it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Nubnub,
AFAIK, the SL 1.1 motor gives 240 W max. If you say the SL is 1.8x or 180% (and I have seen that as well), then with the 35% Assist and 100 W leg power that would be precisely 100 * 1.8 * 0. 35 = 63 W. With 150 W of leg power, that would be of course 150 * 1.8 * 0.35 = 94.5 W. Now, let us take a ballpark figure for overall efficiency as 75%. That would mean a power draw of 126 W from the battery. With the 320 Wh battery, the effective charge is 320 * 0.95 = 304 Wh (as going below 5% makes the system ignore user settings I thing and offering minimal support only). 304 / 126 = 2.41 h or 2 h 25 mins of ride. Does that make sense? If someone can consistently ride for 2:25 h providing 150 W of leg power at 35% assist, all makes sense. (If a longer ride is doable, the efficiency is higher than 75%).

 

[richiebike]

I have been playing around with tuning the 3 assist modes on my Vado SL 4.0 using the Mission Control app. Has anyone done this and if so, can you share your settings and how well they work Or why you set then that way?

Wanting to try different settings that others have found useful.