Tubeless noob's thoughts about tubeless mounting and a new tire just arrived from Germany
- Thread starter Reid
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Reid
Well-Known Member
The tire above:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Schwalbe/G-One-Speed-Evolution-29-Folding-Tyre-2018-Model-p59938/
This iteration is fatter and therefore faster and in retrospect I might have gotten it to fit. Still not sure about that, though
https://www.bike-components.de/en/S...on-SnakeSkin-29-Folding-Tyre-Closeout-p45564/
And this is the one that because of its thinness and lack of puncture protection and high thread count fabric, is said to be the lowest rolling resistance tire of them all
https://www.bike-components.de/en/S...ion-LiteSkin-29-Folding-Tyre-Closeout-p45565/
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/rollwiderstand.html
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Schwalbe/G-One-Speed-Evolution-29-Folding-Tyre-2018-Model-p59938/
This iteration is fatter and therefore faster and in retrospect I might have gotten it to fit. Still not sure about that, though
https://www.bike-components.de/en/S...on-SnakeSkin-29-Folding-Tyre-Closeout-p45564/
And this is the one that because of its thinness and lack of puncture protection and high thread count fabric, is said to be the lowest rolling resistance tire of them all
https://www.bike-components.de/en/S...ion-LiteSkin-29-Folding-Tyre-Closeout-p45565/
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/rollwiderstand.html
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Asher
Well-Known Member
Ha I just got mine put on. 2.35" raceguard, which is now out of production. Raceguard was designed to provide protection without going tubeless, albeit not as much.
Rode it half a mile at the low end of pressure, 25, and it was too squishy. Bumped it up to 35, feels better but will retest tomorrow. On my very brief ride, it seemed to absorb all the little bumps you'd feel with lesser tires. Bigger bumps still come through, but not as intensely. I already have a body float seatpost on though.
Half the mass or so of the Marathon it replaced, rolls very smoothly although it's making a wet rubber squelching sound for some reason, will probably go away with wear.
The riding was without the battery on, which may have affected things. The CCS with this tire and fork is a pretty nimble ride without the battery, especially on the front end. Like a nice beach cruiser. Great for going on a casual bike ride with friends.
Don't think I'd get this tire for the rear, because I need the protection of a plus and don't want to fool around with going tubeless yet. Plus I now have 2 Plus tires to use up on one wheel, which should take 4 years lol.
Salsa Fork pictured, Cromoto.
Rode it half a mile at the low end of pressure, 25, and it was too squishy. Bumped it up to 35, feels better but will retest tomorrow. On my very brief ride, it seemed to absorb all the little bumps you'd feel with lesser tires. Bigger bumps still come through, but not as intensely. I already have a body float seatpost on though.
Half the mass or so of the Marathon it replaced, rolls very smoothly although it's making a wet rubber squelching sound for some reason, will probably go away with wear.
The riding was without the battery on, which may have affected things. The CCS with this tire and fork is a pretty nimble ride without the battery, especially on the front end. Like a nice beach cruiser. Great for going on a casual bike ride with friends.
Don't think I'd get this tire for the rear, because I need the protection of a plus and don't want to fool around with going tubeless yet. Plus I now have 2 Plus tires to use up on one wheel, which should take 4 years lol.
Salsa Fork pictured, Cromoto.
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Reid
Well-Known Member
Great to learn this. How much does it clear the chainstays by? I will order a pair and convert the two I got today into...Hula hoops for life failures. 
But seriously, I have only mounted the rear tire so far. That where most of my weight is. Took a first ride a few minutes ago. WOW. What a difference, it feels like I am on assist when I am not. I know that sounds improbable, but the difference in easy running appears to be hugely better with this tire. Asher's tire would only be better yet!
But seriously, I have only mounted the rear tire so far. That where most of my weight is. Took a first ride a few minutes ago. WOW. What a difference, it feels like I am on assist when I am not. I know that sounds improbable, but the difference in easy running appears to be hugely better with this tire. Asher's tire would only be better yet!
Reid
Well-Known Member
Put the pressure up as high as the tire is rated for, for a test. And tell me how much better it rolls (it will roll better!) And you will still have lots of shock absorbtion and safety in that high volume tire.
Asher
Well-Known Member
I did two runs, one with 35 psi, one with 50 (the maximum).
Muuuch better at 35 than 25. Still a great job of smoothing out the road, with enough stiffness to feel responsive and nimble in steering. 50 psi wasn't noticeably better in rolling resistance, and added a little harshness back into the ride, though still better than Marathon Pluses at the bottom of their range, 45 psi. The sweet spot for this tire is definitely around 35 for me.
Note: this was without a battery, and only the 2.35" on the front tire.
BRR tested out this tire and it got excellent marks, and the results below confirm that marginal gains to higher pressures are somewhat small. If you go tubeless, you should have even better results.
I definitely think Juiced should make a premium CCS for $2500 or so with this tire. There's something to be said for a bike that comes with top notch parts out of the box.
Future Juiced flagship, "The Swift Current": g-one speed 2.35", ~30-35mm rims, Deore groupset, 52V battery without GPS and Satiator to cut costs, alloy fenders. Integrated brake light and some tasteful wire sheathing.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews/schwalbe-big-one-2016
Muuuch better at 35 than 25. Still a great job of smoothing out the road, with enough stiffness to feel responsive and nimble in steering. 50 psi wasn't noticeably better in rolling resistance, and added a little harshness back into the ride, though still better than Marathon Pluses at the bottom of their range, 45 psi. The sweet spot for this tire is definitely around 35 for me.
Note: this was without a battery, and only the 2.35" on the front tire.
BRR tested out this tire and it got excellent marks, and the results below confirm that marginal gains to higher pressures are somewhat small. If you go tubeless, you should have even better results.
I definitely think Juiced should make a premium CCS for $2500 or so with this tire. There's something to be said for a bike that comes with top notch parts out of the box.
Future Juiced flagship, "The Swift Current": g-one speed 2.35", ~30-35mm rims, Deore groupset, 52V battery without GPS and Satiator to cut costs, alloy fenders. Integrated brake light and some tasteful wire sheathing.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews/schwalbe-big-one-2016
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Reid
Well-Known Member
Dangerous Undertow is my vote for the next model name. See, it's the upgrades you'll make; they'll pull you under.
I am going to be rolling in tires here soon and none of them hold air as a life preserver.
I have: pair of perfectly good Michelin Protek Urban with puncture protection I no longer need. The 38C nominal Michelins are an actual 1.6" wide on the 19mm internal width CCS rim. They are fatter than their stated width. And now I have two incredibly well-rolling, SnakeSkin-protection Schwalbe G-one Speed nominally 2.0" wide tires that in practice at 45 PSI are only 1.9" wide. They are narrower than their stated width.
I want more tire width, as much as can fit, since this is more than just a hobby interest to attain the best for my wants. Besides, I am saving thousands of dollars by not driving a car or buying a premium price ebike.
The widest, lightweight bike G-One casing means off-pavement traction when I want to shortcut around lines of stalled cars and the really big plus for my likes: much easier pedaling. Cake/Eat. I can have it both ways as long as I mind the road hazards. We don't have nasty road hazards where I live. My off road will be road shoulders and public parks and maybe I will try the deep sand at Virginia Key and get onto its MTB trails (at a lower speed suiting my total inexperience).
So I think I might get a pair of the non-SnakeSkin, zero protection, not tubeless rated LiteSkin 2.35" G-One, just like Asher has on his new fork. I will buy the closeout LiteSkin G-One despite the Rolling Resistance.com opinion that
It will not be hard to get the beads seated. A LiteSkin tire will not hold air pressure over a long term as well as the SnakeSkin version because the LiteSkin carcass is not designed to hold air; it is more permeable than a TL-Easy Schwalbe.
At any rate, I am done with tubes for good.
Edit: I just went for a five mile test ride, no assist. The new tires are amazingly easier to pedal than what I had before and even at 60PSI I can run off the pavement and into gravel or sand without giving the loose stuff much attention; if I were to lower the pressure sand and gravel capability will be increased a lot more. And also, going to the 2.35" width will upgrade speed and ease of pedaling on all surfaces.
Edit: ordered the LiteSkin 2.35" a few minutes ago and will mount them 7 days from today and report results. Will put the present 2" pair on another bike.
I am going to be rolling in tires here soon and none of them hold air as a life preserver.
I have: pair of perfectly good Michelin Protek Urban with puncture protection I no longer need. The 38C nominal Michelins are an actual 1.6" wide on the 19mm internal width CCS rim. They are fatter than their stated width. And now I have two incredibly well-rolling, SnakeSkin-protection Schwalbe G-one Speed nominally 2.0" wide tires that in practice at 45 PSI are only 1.9" wide. They are narrower than their stated width.
I want more tire width, as much as can fit, since this is more than just a hobby interest to attain the best for my wants. Besides, I am saving thousands of dollars by not driving a car or buying a premium price ebike.
The widest, lightweight bike G-One casing means off-pavement traction when I want to shortcut around lines of stalled cars and the really big plus for my likes: much easier pedaling. Cake/Eat. I can have it both ways as long as I mind the road hazards. We don't have nasty road hazards where I live. My off road will be road shoulders and public parks and maybe I will try the deep sand at Virginia Key and get onto its MTB trails (at a lower speed suiting my total inexperience).
So I think I might get a pair of the non-SnakeSkin, zero protection, not tubeless rated LiteSkin 2.35" G-One, just like Asher has on his new fork. I will buy the closeout LiteSkin G-One despite the Rolling Resistance.com opinion that
It will not be hard to get the beads seated. A LiteSkin tire will not hold air pressure over a long term as well as the SnakeSkin version because the LiteSkin carcass is not designed to hold air; it is more permeable than a TL-Easy Schwalbe.
At any rate, I am done with tubes for good.
Edit: I just went for a five mile test ride, no assist. The new tires are amazingly easier to pedal than what I had before and even at 60PSI I can run off the pavement and into gravel or sand without giving the loose stuff much attention; if I were to lower the pressure sand and gravel capability will be increased a lot more. And also, going to the 2.35" width will upgrade speed and ease of pedaling on all surfaces.
Edit: ordered the LiteSkin 2.35" a few minutes ago and will mount them 7 days from today and report results. Will put the present 2" pair on another bike.
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Reid
Well-Known Member
Answers subject to correction
Can you run the liteSkin tubeless? Yes. They just cannot advocate it because it is not "tubeless ready..."
If so, why is there a separate TL easy option? A tubeless-intended tire will have no molding artifacts of nubs, nibs or other bead sealing interference on the bead, because projecting junk makes it difficult to seat the bead by air pressure. A tubeless intended tire must have a specifically air impervious membrane bonded inside the casing to be commercially acceptable. A non-tubeless tire may have porosity to some degree, which sealant in time will find and plug. Yet, the non-tubeless tire is unlikely to hold air pressure as well as a tubeless specific tire.
Also, I wonder why they don't offer the tire in 2.8" (which would call for a wider rim)? I don't know. Thinking very few bikes could take such a wide tire. And when the rim is widened, the wheel becomes heavier, etc., and minimal rotating weight has sales appeal.
My guesses!
Asher
Well-Known Member
I've done about 50 miles now with the G-One Speed 29x2.35" (60mm).
Thoughts:
All in all, the tire is excellent. Never thought I'd get so excited over tires. Smooth, damping, and even supple to the touch when you take them out of the box (by contrast, Marathon Pluses cannot be folded easily). Like on the road bike I just sold, you really feel a direct power transfer from the pedals and the motor to the tire.
*The tire has a nice low-pitched growl from rolling along pavement. It's pretty sweet.
*Pressure is ideal at the middle of the stated range, around 35 or 40 psi, versus a 25-50 psi range. But your weight and choice of rims and fork and may alter this. At the sweet spot, the tire is responsive but still eats up much of the small road bumps....
*Between the lower rolling resistance and the vibration damping, it feels like you're gliding along the road. It feels amazing when you have a slight downhill, or a tailwind.
*I rode it along wet/rainy roads, and had no issues losing traction. I didn't push it though, because regardless of tire choice, I'm more careful when it's wet. This is with a marathon plus in the back, which some say isn't great on wet roads.
*I figure the wider a given tire model, the more tread to spread wear on, so this tire will last longer than the narrower sizes. Somewhat confirming this, Schwalbe rates the wider tires for higher load bearing. And since going wider doesn't cost more, this will save you money by increasing the tire's lifespan. If you had a wider rim (25-35mm internal width), the contact patch would be even wider.
*Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly says tires of at least 54 mm width aren't any slower for real world use than narrower tires. So forget about downsides to going wider, assuming it fits your frame and fenders.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/
Thoughts:
All in all, the tire is excellent. Never thought I'd get so excited over tires
. Smooth, damping, and even supple to the touch when you take them out of the box (by contrast, Marathon Pluses cannot be folded easily). Like on the road bike I just sold, you really feel a direct power transfer from the pedals and the motor to the tire.*The tire has a nice low-pitched growl from rolling along pavement. It's pretty sweet.
*Pressure is ideal at the middle of the stated range, around 35 or 40 psi, versus a 25-50 psi range. But your weight and choice of rims and fork and may alter this. At the sweet spot, the tire is responsive but still eats up much of the small road bumps....
*Between the lower rolling resistance and the vibration damping, it feels like you're gliding along the road. It feels amazing when you have a slight downhill, or a tailwind.
*I rode it along wet/rainy roads, and had no issues losing traction. I didn't push it though, because regardless of tire choice, I'm more careful when it's wet. This is with a marathon plus in the back, which some say isn't great on wet roads.
*I figure the wider a given tire model, the more tread to spread wear on, so this tire will last longer than the narrower sizes. Somewhat confirming this, Schwalbe rates the wider tires for higher load bearing. And since going wider doesn't cost more, this will save you money by increasing the tire's lifespan. If you had a wider rim (25-35mm internal width), the contact patch would be even wider.
*Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly says tires of at least 54 mm width aren't any slower for real world use than narrower tires. So forget about downsides to going wider, assuming it fits your frame and fenders.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link to Bicycle Quarterly. Adding it to my browser bookmarks.I've done about 50 miles now with the G-One Speed 29x2.35" (60mm).
Thoughts:
All in all, the tire is excellent. Never thought I'd get so excited over tires
*The tire has a nice low-pitched growl from rolling along pavement. It's pretty sweet.
*Pressure is ideal at the middle of the stated range, around 35 or 40 psi, versus a 25-50 psi range. But your weight and choice of rims and fork and may alter this. At the sweet spot, the tire is responsive but still eats up much of the small road bumps....
*Between the lower rolling resistance and the vibration damping, it feels like you're gliding along the road. It feels amazing when you have a slight downhill, or a tailwind.
*I rode it along wet/rainy roads, and had no issues losing traction. I didn't push it though, because regardless of tire choice, I'm more careful when it's wet. This is with a marathon plus in the back, which some say isn't great on wet roads.
*I figure the wider a given tire model, the more tread to spread wear on, so this tire will last longer than the narrower sizes. Somewhat confirming this, Schwalbe rates the wider tires for higher load bearing. And since going wider doesn't cost more, this will save you money by increasing the tire's lifespan. If you had a wider rim (25-35mm internal width), the contact patch would be even wider.
*Jan Heine of Bicycle Quarterly says tires of at least 54 mm width aren't any slower for real world use than narrower tires. So forget about downsides to going wider, assuming it fits your frame and fenders.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/
Reid
Well-Known Member
All kidding above aside, I am excited to be going to the fattest possible tire that will fit the CCS frame and front fork: a 2.35" nominal tire. It is primarily for the float that I want the widest tire. I can since going to the 2.0" G-One Speed jump from pavement to grass/dirt without much concern at all. Wider will make that surefootedness even better.
QUESTION for Asher: Do you have a dial caliper or similar by which to measure the actual width of your G-One Speed?
My present 2.0" nominal G-One Speed Snakeskin is an actual 1.9" wide on the CCS rim (19mm internal width).
So, what is yours measuring?
QUESTION for Asher: Do you have a dial caliper or similar by which to measure the actual width of your G-One Speed?
My present 2.0" nominal G-One Speed Snakeskin is an actual 1.9" wide on the CCS rim (19mm internal width).
So, what is yours measuring?
Asher
Well-Known Member
No. I tried measuring with tailors tape but it wasn't very effective. Next time I'm at the bike shop I'll ask if they have one and take a pic.
There's a pronounced light bulb shape to the tire due to the narrow rims which supposedly narrows but heightens the tire compared to a proper, wider rim (~30-40mm internal width).
There's a pronounced light bulb shape to the tire due to the narrow rims which supposedly narrows but heightens the tire compared to a proper, wider rim (~30-40mm internal width).
Reid
Well-Known Member
It's OK. I am going to learn the clearance pretty soon.
Have not found a 36h rim much wider than the 19mm internal width of our stock rims. The industry focuses on 32h rims.
For now will get the new tires fitted and see how much clearance between the chainstays and guestimate how much wider a rim can even be contemplated.
BTW, will need to carefully file the disc-side dropout to get my new tire precisely centered between the chainstays because the factory alignment is off by roughly 1/4" at the chainstays. Not a big job.
Thank you, Asher.
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Asher
Well-Known Member
You could do a 32h or even 28h on the front rim without issue, but then you'd need a new hub. Trek's 1120 only has 28h in the front despite being a bike packing rig.
I looked around for used wheels but didn't find any good places. I'd definitely consider it if I could find a quality wheel for $50 off Craigslist. (Retail new is like $250).
I looked around for used wheels but didn't find any good places. I'd definitely consider it if I could find a quality wheel for $50 off Craigslist. (Retail new is like $250).
Asher
Well-Known Member
Hey Reid, how are your ersatz tubeless liteskins holding up? Just curious for the future, if I'd go tubeless with the tubeless easy option, or shave 100g with the liteskin. Also, the liteskins have low protection ratings - do you think that when you run them tubeless, they are just as protected as the tubeless easy version?
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