Trek Verve+ 3 or 4s vs Cannondale Neo vs Gazelle Ultimate 380
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AvalancheRun
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Specialized Vado 4.0 not in the running? I have a Gazelle C380 but having ridden it a while, the Vado seems like a better pick. Wider tires, quieter motor, step-over option (for stability), belt or chain options (3.0/5.0 models), and better brakes. Design-wise the battery is integrated better for a slimmer bottom tube. Gazelle doesn't give many specs away, but I suspect the light and suspension for may be better too.
Our Gazelles have been pretty reliable. Both have had a lot of brake squeal from the get-go. Some other minor issues that were resolved. They do fine on packed gravel trails. I do really wish the tires were wider for comfort reasons, but the bikes handle terrain pretty well.
On Gazelle VS Trek, the Trek Verve+ 4s has the same Bosch motor, but the "sport" version which is simply unlocked to 28 mph. It's a nice and quiet motor, and quite a bummer that the non-sport version in the C380 is locked to class 1. In reality it takes so much effort to push these past 18-19 mph, let alone low 20s. For most cruising that's not a big deal at all, but it does become a killjoy when attempting to gain momentum before a big hill. I rode the Verve and enjoyed it.
Lastly, belt vs derailleur. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, for serviceability derailleur hands down. Any shop can work on it. I find the Enviolo twist shifter to be tedious for spirited riding.
Our Gazelles have been pretty reliable. Both have had a lot of brake squeal from the get-go. Some other minor issues that were resolved. They do fine on packed gravel trails. I do really wish the tires were wider for comfort reasons, but the bikes handle terrain pretty well.
On Gazelle VS Trek, the Trek Verve+ 4s has the same Bosch motor, but the "sport" version which is simply unlocked to 28 mph. It's a nice and quiet motor, and quite a bummer that the non-sport version in the C380 is locked to class 1. In reality it takes so much effort to push these past 18-19 mph, let alone low 20s. For most cruising that's not a big deal at all, but it does become a killjoy when attempting to gain momentum before a big hill. I rode the Verve and enjoyed it.
Lastly, belt vs derailleur. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, for serviceability derailleur hands down. Any shop can work on it. I find the Enviolo twist shifter to be tedious for spirited riding.
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Great insight, thank you. Looking at Verve+ to get more upright ride and handlebar adjustability due to some lower back and shoulder issues (that might get worse). I think Vlado wouldn‘t ride as upright???? Thinking that a more aggressive tire might be in my future if better traction is required. Do you think Trek have a better LBS network? Am I missing anything?
AvalancheRun
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Verve+ might be a little more upright, I haven't compared. In general these are all on the upright side of the spectrum. I looked into different tires for my C380 and it's really tough to add tires that are much wider without changing the wheels. Wider lets you run a little lower PSI for more comfort, that being the main draw for me. You could also add a suspension seatpost to any of them for a much more comfortable ride.
I'm now noticing the adjustable stem on the Verve+ which is very similar to that on the C380. It allows for some nice adjustment to get even more upright. You could achieve very similar results by changing out the stem on other bikes. Btw, the price difference on these is quite dramatic - are you considering the Verve+ 4S for $3500 against the new Gazelle for $4999?
My guess on reliability/serviceability is Trek might be the best bet. Have you ridden all of these? Might want to spend a good 20 minutes on each of them. They're all good bikes.
. Thanks for sharing your experiences.Thanks, do you have the chain and derailer or belt version of the bike and how do you like it. Right now I am thinking about getting the metal chain version because it is a simplier design and easier to repair a flat. Also easier to shift for my wife. How do the bike tires perform on gravel trails? Why did you select the 4s over the 3?
Hi,
1. I got the version with the chain and derailleur. I figured the “tried and true” setup would be easier to work on and repair if necessary. (Granted, I’ve never had a belt-driven bike before, so I don’t know if this is actually true. But that was my reasoning.)
2. I’m not much of a “gravel” rider. I mean, there are some gravel sections of some of the nearby trails that I ride, but gravel performance per se wasn’t a priority for me. Also, I only rode on the original tires that came with the bike (Hardcase E6 Lite tires, I think; don’t have them in front of me right now) for a couple of weeks before swapping them out for Schwalbe Marathon E-Plus tires. Not because there was anything wrong with the stock original tires; there wasnt. I just preferred the Schwalbes from having used them on another bike (and they have much higher puncture protection).
3. I went with the 4s vs the 3 for several reasons, primarily as I recall: (a) I believe the 4s is very slightly lighter; (b) the 4s has a somewhat more powerful motor, which is helpful on steep hills; (3) the 4s is Class 3 (motor assist up to 28MPH) whereas the Verve 3 is Class 1 (motor assist only up to 20MPH). There were a couple other things - maybe the 4s has like an extra gear compared to the 3? - that I can’t remember right now.
I have the 4s step-thru version. I’ve been very pleased with it. The combination of it being step-thru and the fairly upright seating position mean that on days when my lower back is bothering me, I can be somewhat more upright rather than leaning far forward (and with the adjustable stem, you can position things to be *really* upright if/when you want); and on days when my right hip is bothering me, I don’t have to swing my leg way up and over the saddle. (To be clear, neither my back nor my hip are serious ailments, more annoyances. But I am in my early 50s and both can get aggravated in certain riding positions on certain days). The motor is more than powerful enough and fast enough for my purposes, and I feel very well “planted” while riding.
I did have the Trek store upgrade the Purion controller that comes standard with the 4s to the larger and more informative Nyon display. The Purion was fine - indeed, there’s something to be said for the simplicity of having just a controller as opposed to yet another screen - but I wanted the additional ride data that the Nyon can display and record (cadence, pedaling power, calorie estimates, etc). I don’t really use many of the other features, such as maps/navigation, mostly because I haven’t needed them enough to invest the time in figuring out how to use them.
Also: big shout-out to my local Trek store! Their service has been excellent: the longest I’ve ever had to wait for the bike to be serviced has been 3 days, and that’s just because I took it in on a holiday weekend. Most of the time, they promise 24 turnaround for routine matters. And contrary to my expectation of a big chain, the employees there to a person are friendly, knowledgeable, and happy to share advice and just chat bikes.
1. I got the version with the chain and derailleur. I figured the “tried and true” setup would be easier to work on and repair if necessary. (Granted, I’ve never had a belt-driven bike before, so I don’t know if this is actually true. But that was my reasoning.)
2. I’m not much of a “gravel” rider. I mean, there are some gravel sections of some of the nearby trails that I ride, but gravel performance per se wasn’t a priority for me. Also, I only rode on the original tires that came with the bike (Hardcase E6 Lite tires, I think; don’t have them in front of me right now) for a couple of weeks before swapping them out for Schwalbe Marathon E-Plus tires. Not because there was anything wrong with the stock original tires; there wasnt. I just preferred the Schwalbes from having used them on another bike (and they have much higher puncture protection).
3. I went with the 4s vs the 3 for several reasons, primarily as I recall: (a) I believe the 4s is very slightly lighter; (b) the 4s has a somewhat more powerful motor, which is helpful on steep hills; (3) the 4s is Class 3 (motor assist up to 28MPH) whereas the Verve 3 is Class 1 (motor assist only up to 20MPH). There were a couple other things - maybe the 4s has like an extra gear compared to the 3? - that I can’t remember right now.
I have the 4s step-thru version. I’ve been very pleased with it. The combination of it being step-thru and the fairly upright seating position mean that on days when my lower back is bothering me, I can be somewhat more upright rather than leaning far forward (and with the adjustable stem, you can position things to be *really* upright if/when you want); and on days when my right hip is bothering me, I don’t have to swing my leg way up and over the saddle. (To be clear, neither my back nor my hip are serious ailments, more annoyances. But I am in my early 50s and both can get aggravated in certain riding positions on certain days). The motor is more than powerful enough and fast enough for my purposes, and I feel very well “planted” while riding.
I did have the Trek store upgrade the Purion controller that comes standard with the 4s to the larger and more informative Nyon display. The Purion was fine - indeed, there’s something to be said for the simplicity of having just a controller as opposed to yet another screen - but I wanted the additional ride data that the Nyon can display and record (cadence, pedaling power, calorie estimates, etc). I don’t really use many of the other features, such as maps/navigation, mostly because I haven’t needed them enough to invest the time in figuring out how to use them.
Also: big shout-out to my local Trek store! Their service has been excellent: the longest I’ve ever had to wait for the bike to be serviced has been 3 days, and that’s just because I took it in on a holiday weekend. Most of the time, they promise 24 turnaround for routine matters. And contrary to my expectation of a big chain, the employees there to a person are friendly, knowledgeable, and happy to share advice and just chat bikes.
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Sparky731
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- USA
My wife and I have only owned Trek ebikes but have rented others. Several, like your other options are comparable. She has a Verve+2 and a 4s. I had a Verve+3 and now ride an Allant 7s and an 8s. You should see a pattern of “s” models for the same reasons previously noted. Compare to driving a car limited to 55mph vs. a car that can go 70. You don’t always drive that fast, but there are times when you may want or need to.
We buy both from Trek dealers and Trek stores. (7 total Treks.) Dealers are helpful in that they have cross-industry knowledge and experience. However, Trek stores know their bikes well and will charge by the minute for a 10 minute fix where a dealer will often charge a full hour. They operate under different business models.
Frames are all decently strong. You may want to compare componentry. Motors, shifters, brakes, etc.
Per tires, I like slightly wider as on the Allants, but my wife goes where I go on her Verves with the thinner tires.
Happy ebiking!
We buy both from Trek dealers and Trek stores. (7 total Treks.) Dealers are helpful in that they have cross-industry knowledge and experience. However, Trek stores know their bikes well and will charge by the minute for a 10 minute fix where a dealer will often charge a full hour. They operate under different business models.
Frames are all decently strong. You may want to compare componentry. Motors, shifters, brakes, etc.
Per tires, I like slightly wider as on the Allants, but my wife goes where I go on her Verves with the thinner tires.
Happy ebiking!
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
We sell both Cannondale and Gazelle and I've had hands on more than a few Verve's. There's 2 different Gazelle C380's, the $4999 is the new Smartsystem version with a larger battery and more powerful motor (even though they have the same name) than the Trek Verve 4+. Also worth noting the belt drive and Enviolo hub add quite a bit of cost and are much quieter and smoother than a traditional chain and derailleur. In terms of changing a rear flat the Enviolo hub is more complex but it's all relative as I've got lots of clients that can't remove a chain rear wheel. Either way I'd put Tannus Armour in both tires to help prevent flats and protect the rim from pinch flats.
Also worth noting, most (if not all) Gazelle dealers are going to be strongly e-bike focused. Trek dealers, while having access to the e-bike lineup might not be focused on those products so sales and service support can be spotty. Where are you located?
Also worth noting, most (if not all) Gazelle dealers are going to be strongly e-bike focused. Trek dealers, while having access to the e-bike lineup might not be focused on those products so sales and service support can be spotty. Where are you located?
While I'm fan of low maintenance cycling with belt drive high on wish list, down side is Enviolo hub adds couple extra kgs which maybe an issue if you need to lift bike on regular basis.
If you buy Trek see if you can upgrade charger from 2A to 4A. For overnite charging 2A is fine, its lunch stop topups where 4A shine. There is also a 6A charger which you could buy later to submit 2A.
Johnny Watts 27.5x2.35 tired are good upgrade for gravel riding. Forum has whole hread devoted to them.
As for entry level MT200 they are reliable and OK if you don't do lot of hill work. I've whole section on upgrading to M6xxx Deore or M7xxx SLX see my Xroad 2 625WH thread in Moustache section. Looking at web photos don't think smart purion will interfer with M7100 brake levers like old purion did.
Highly recommend SLX M7100 2pots with 180mm rotors front and rear.
If you buy Trek see if you can upgrade charger from 2A to 4A. For overnite charging 2A is fine, its lunch stop topups where 4A shine. There is also a 6A charger which you could buy later to submit 2A.
Johnny Watts 27.5x2.35 tired are good upgrade for gravel riding. Forum has whole hread devoted to them.
As for entry level MT200 they are reliable and OK if you don't do lot of hill work. I've whole section on upgrading to M6xxx Deore or M7xxx SLX see my Xroad 2 625WH thread in Moustache section. Looking at web photos don't think smart purion will interfer with M7100 brake levers like old purion did.
Highly recommend SLX M7100 2pots with 180mm rotors front and rear.
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
The 6a charger isn't available in the US
JimFMB
Active Member
I sold my Allant+ 8s stagger and purchased the Verve+ 4s low step. Im very pleased with the change. I love the low step. It’s more nimble than the Allant, and I don’t ride on surfaces that require the larger tires and wheels that come with the Allant.
I changed the purion to the kiox on the Verve. In my opinion Kiox should be the default display controller for this bike.
I changed the purion to the kiox on the Verve. In my opinion Kiox should be the default display controller for this bike.
Sparky731
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- USA
I agree per the Kiox. I put it on my 8s. However I am staying with the Purion on my Allant 7s and Verves as I still like its convenience.
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