This is a cool bike
- Thread starter james90755
- Start date
Merry Christmas Jim... It's great to hear about your ODK upgrades and experiences. Count me in the group that is genuinely curious about your real world range test on that huge Juiced Riders battery. I'm postponing my e-bike purchase until Spring since there is not much opportunity to ride in MD winters. Although this year is an exception with anticipated record breaking 30 degrees above normal today at 69 degrees! Happy (and safe) riding. Watch out for all the kids firing up their new hoverboards for the first time this morning.
Jim W
Member
It's been seven days since I got the Cycle Analyst, and I've put 45 miles on the battery so far. I had a full 32 Ah charge when I started, and I now have 6 amp/hours remaining. Tora recommended that I only use 4 of those 6 amp/hours to avoid depleting the battery. So, given the geography of my riding location (many steep hills), my weight (220 lbs.), my pedaling style and the fact that I pull a trailer part of the time, I'm estimating another 6 to 8 miles before I have to charge it again. OK, so that's roughly 50 to 52 miles out of a full charge. I would imagine that most riders carry a lot less weight on their ODKs, so their mileage may be better. Nevertheless, I'm happy with the mileage I get in real-world situations.
By the way, I see that Juiced Riders has updated their website to reflect a new estimated mileage for the 32 Ah battery. They now believe it will get 82 miles on a full charge rather than the 100 miles they had estimated before. That's a significant drop in my opinion, but I suppose they--just like me--are acknowledging the fact that power demands vary by individual, and that there are just too many factors which affect the amount of mileage a rider may get out of each full battery charge.
Another thing I wanted to bring up is this: With the Cycle Analyst, I know exactly how many amp/hours are remaining out of a full charge second by second. But now if I decide to only charge the battery to 80% then I'm going to have to start using my math. So, 80% of 32 Ah is 25.6 Ah. That means if I follow Tora's advice about battery depletion, I should recharge again once I burn somewhere around 23 Ah. However, that's more than enough amp/hours to cover my usual daily power needs, so I can continue to extend the life of my battery by using a system of partial charges, and save the full charges for times when I know I'm going to ride more than 23 amp/hours worth of miles in a day.
Oh and one final note: On my way back from grocery shopping this afternoon, I rode part way down a hill at my usual "bat-out-a-hell" clip, and made a left onto my street without slowing. My groceries were loaded on the trailer this time, and I had forgotten that you have to take corners with a little bit more caution when pulling a trailer. Well, I made it through the turn alright, but the trailer didn't. It tipped over on it's side and slid along the street for about 12 feet. Luckily though, I had sealed my groceries inside two large plastic storage containers, and then bungee-corded them to the trailer bed. Although the asphalt shredded one of the bungee cords causing it to snap, I had also bungee-corded an extra-large bag of toilet paper over the top of the two plastic containers. So, basically everything stayed together even though the trailer was on it's side.
I'm also thankful that the trailer stayed attached to my bike; great design I guess. I'm lucky it didn't go into one of those "death rolls" and take me with it. Can you imagine if the bag of toilet paper had come open and sent roll upon roll of 2-ply unraveling down the hill, with me right behind. Or imagine 12 cans of Budweiser exploding and spraying their contents in the wind like shiny, aluminum teargas canisters?
OK, enough about my troubles for today. Ride safely!
By the way, I see that Juiced Riders has updated their website to reflect a new estimated mileage for the 32 Ah battery. They now believe it will get 82 miles on a full charge rather than the 100 miles they had estimated before. That's a significant drop in my opinion, but I suppose they--just like me--are acknowledging the fact that power demands vary by individual, and that there are just too many factors which affect the amount of mileage a rider may get out of each full battery charge.
Another thing I wanted to bring up is this: With the Cycle Analyst, I know exactly how many amp/hours are remaining out of a full charge second by second. But now if I decide to only charge the battery to 80% then I'm going to have to start using my math. So, 80% of 32 Ah is 25.6 Ah. That means if I follow Tora's advice about battery depletion, I should recharge again once I burn somewhere around 23 Ah. However, that's more than enough amp/hours to cover my usual daily power needs, so I can continue to extend the life of my battery by using a system of partial charges, and save the full charges for times when I know I'm going to ride more than 23 amp/hours worth of miles in a day.
Oh and one final note: On my way back from grocery shopping this afternoon, I rode part way down a hill at my usual "bat-out-a-hell" clip, and made a left onto my street without slowing. My groceries were loaded on the trailer this time, and I had forgotten that you have to take corners with a little bit more caution when pulling a trailer. Well, I made it through the turn alright, but the trailer didn't. It tipped over on it's side and slid along the street for about 12 feet. Luckily though, I had sealed my groceries inside two large plastic storage containers, and then bungee-corded them to the trailer bed. Although the asphalt shredded one of the bungee cords causing it to snap, I had also bungee-corded an extra-large bag of toilet paper over the top of the two plastic containers. So, basically everything stayed together even though the trailer was on it's side.
I'm also thankful that the trailer stayed attached to my bike; great design I guess. I'm lucky it didn't go into one of those "death rolls" and take me with it. Can you imagine if the bag of toilet paper had come open and sent roll upon roll of 2-ply unraveling down the hill, with me right behind. Or imagine 12 cans of Budweiser exploding and spraying their contents in the wind like shiny, aluminum teargas canisters?
OK, enough about my troubles for today. Ride safely!
I'm glad you're okay after the grocery misadventure! That must have been stressful. Flying TP and Budweiser would have been quite a sight!
Tora Harris
Well-Known Member
Jim,
That is really good information about your usage.
With the Cycle Analyst, you will start to see many interesting things that are normally hidden from view on most all e-bikes.
The first thing is that we did not program the Cycle Satiator charger to charge the battery to 100% even in the "100%" mode. It is a bit conservative, but you can activate the hidden profile to "Max Charge" if you go on a road trip or something and you really need to get a few more miles out of the pack.
The other thing is that the motor controller is programmed to not let you squeeze every drop out of the pack. It is also somewhat conservative and ramps down the power so to not drop below around 42V.
For this type of lithium battery chemistry, avoiding the high and low voltage extremes is what has been found to be the most gentle way to use the pack.
The 32Ah pack uses more special cells and can technically be discharged to a lower voltage to squeeze out more power than the 23Ah pack's cells.
The 32Ah pack is such a radical product on the e-bike market and pushes the boundaries of what's available on a production e-bike vehicle at the moment. We try to find the right balance between good motor power, long riding range and overall battery lifespan. This is always 2nd to safety anyway.
We are still learning about what's possible and how people use the bike. One thing that seems constant: the riders will find a way to use any increase in performance that the new technology makes available.
To put it in perspective, most standard "cargo e-bikes" have only 8Ah to 13Ah and max out at 18Ah with pack upgrades!
About the range of any electric vehicle:
With the Cycle Analyst you just need to know 2 things to estimate the range of any e-bike.
1. How many Wh can you pull from the battery.
2. How many Wh you use to go 1 mile.
You can think of a Wh like a drop of gasoline. Wh (Watt-hour) is just Ah x Voltage, for the U500 just multiply by 48 Volts.
So, after riding several miles, flip to the Wh/mi screen. There will be a number like between 10 and 35. Let's say it is 25Wh/mi for fairly spirited riding.
That means that you used 25Wh to go 1 mile.
2 miles will cost you 50 Wh.
4 miles will cost you 100 Wh and so on.
The charged 32Ah pack can comfortably pull a solid 1,250-1,350 Wh (26-28Ah) from the pack without much stress.
So at 25Wh/mile your range:
1,250/25 = 50 miles
1,350/25 = 54 miles
That's decent range.
If you go slower and do average-ish pedaling you could see like 10-12 Wh/mile while still going about a good 15mph on the flats.
1,250/12 = 104 miles
1,350/12 = 112 miles
Not bad!
Even more range is possible but, I guess you could just turn the battery off and pedal the bike 900 miles, then turn it on for the last 100 miles to get 1000 mile range. So there are practical limits.
Many things will effect the range including, hills, wind, tire inflation pressure, riding position, payload, outside air temps, even little bumps in the road among many other things.
With a loaded payload and full throttle we can see numbers like 33-35Wh/mile even when pedaling.
1,250/35Wh = 35 miles
1,350/35Wh = 38 miles
It is what it is...
So you can see the range is highly variable, but at the end of the day it is all about how much energy you have aboard vs. your burn rate.
The range we state in the marketing material is the middle range without going super slow or whatever, but we now provide a table for the range of distances you can get out of the pack. Most range estimates we have seen on some marketing material are a little exaggerated, but oh well...
The U500 is not really optimized to squeeze out the maximum range. The tires, tubes and spokes are heavy duty. There are lots of robust parts that in the end, trade a little range for better reliability. With the ability to spec the largest pack out there, you can have the most useful e-bike ever.
That is really good information about your usage.
With the Cycle Analyst, you will start to see many interesting things that are normally hidden from view on most all e-bikes.
The first thing is that we did not program the Cycle Satiator charger to charge the battery to 100% even in the "100%" mode. It is a bit conservative, but you can activate the hidden profile to "Max Charge" if you go on a road trip or something and you really need to get a few more miles out of the pack.
The other thing is that the motor controller is programmed to not let you squeeze every drop out of the pack. It is also somewhat conservative and ramps down the power so to not drop below around 42V.
For this type of lithium battery chemistry, avoiding the high and low voltage extremes is what has been found to be the most gentle way to use the pack.
The 32Ah pack uses more special cells and can technically be discharged to a lower voltage to squeeze out more power than the 23Ah pack's cells.
The 32Ah pack is such a radical product on the e-bike market and pushes the boundaries of what's available on a production e-bike vehicle at the moment. We try to find the right balance between good motor power, long riding range and overall battery lifespan. This is always 2nd to safety anyway.
We are still learning about what's possible and how people use the bike. One thing that seems constant: the riders will find a way to use any increase in performance that the new technology makes available.
To put it in perspective, most standard "cargo e-bikes" have only 8Ah to 13Ah and max out at 18Ah with pack upgrades!
About the range of any electric vehicle:
With the Cycle Analyst you just need to know 2 things to estimate the range of any e-bike.
1. How many Wh can you pull from the battery.
2. How many Wh you use to go 1 mile.
You can think of a Wh like a drop of gasoline. Wh (Watt-hour) is just Ah x Voltage, for the U500 just multiply by 48 Volts.
So, after riding several miles, flip to the Wh/mi screen. There will be a number like between 10 and 35. Let's say it is 25Wh/mi for fairly spirited riding.
That means that you used 25Wh to go 1 mile.
2 miles will cost you 50 Wh.
4 miles will cost you 100 Wh and so on.
The charged 32Ah pack can comfortably pull a solid 1,250-1,350 Wh (26-28Ah) from the pack without much stress.
So at 25Wh/mile your range:
1,250/25 = 50 miles
1,350/25 = 54 miles
That's decent range.
If you go slower and do average-ish pedaling you could see like 10-12 Wh/mile while still going about a good 15mph on the flats.
1,250/12 = 104 miles
1,350/12 = 112 miles
Not bad!
Even more range is possible but, I guess you could just turn the battery off and pedal the bike 900 miles, then turn it on for the last 100 miles to get 1000 mile range. So there are practical limits.
Many things will effect the range including, hills, wind, tire inflation pressure, riding position, payload, outside air temps, even little bumps in the road among many other things.
With a loaded payload and full throttle we can see numbers like 33-35Wh/mile even when pedaling.
1,250/35Wh = 35 miles
1,350/35Wh = 38 miles
It is what it is...
So you can see the range is highly variable, but at the end of the day it is all about how much energy you have aboard vs. your burn rate.
The range we state in the marketing material is the middle range without going super slow or whatever, but we now provide a table for the range of distances you can get out of the pack. Most range estimates we have seen on some marketing material are a little exaggerated, but oh well...
The U500 is not really optimized to squeeze out the maximum range. The tires, tubes and spokes are heavy duty. There are lots of robust parts that in the end, trade a little range for better reliability. With the ability to spec the largest pack out there, you can have the most useful e-bike ever.
Jim W
Member
Thanks, Tora, for the detailed explanation on mileage and battery life. Yes, the Cycle Analyst has become my best friend now. On top of that, it makes the bike look even cooler. With all the displays, dials, oil level gauges and harnesses on the handlebars, I'm reminded of the cockpit in one of those blackhawk helicopters. I need to get one of those helmets with a reticle over one eye that gives a heads-up display of all the information gathered by the Cycle Analyst. Or maybe since I do a lot of night riding I could get one of those infrared vision headsets. But that's probably getting a little too nerdy, even for me.
Garden Gear
New Member
Well hello again folks. I've been away it seems an eternity, even though it's only been one page of progression on this thread. Y'all must be out riding now that most everyone has their bikes (except me... for now). Well I had some business delays but I'm likely going to order my ODK tomorrow. I'm wrestling with getting the 32ah battery over the 23. Do you still get the upgraded charger with the 32? My local dealer doesn't stock the 32 and I'm wondering if I should order directly or not. I'll message Tora.
Jim W... your contributions here are of the highest value!
GG
Jim W... your contributions here are of the highest value!
GG
Ha.. there is nothing better than personalized service, especially when it comes to eBikes, because they have unique parts and designs. Had the same experience with my A2B Metro and it caused me to keep it almost 5 years even though it had a basket of problems.
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Jim W
Member
Get the 32 if your daily travels are lengthy. Also keep in mind that as the battery nears the end of it's charge, you'll notice a significant decrease in power; and in order to maintain the same speed as you had when the battery was full, you'll have to pedal harder. For me, the last two miles of any ride are uphill, so I'll know it when I'm low on power. With the Cycle Satiator I can confidently know that I will get, on average, 1.8 miles for ever amp hour used.
And yes, check with Tora, but I think he is shipping Satiators with all 32 amps, and maybe all ODKs period.
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Garden Gear
New Member
Thanks for the reply. Did you mean the Cycle Satiator enhanced charger is now being shipped with all 32 amps?
GG
Jim W
Member
Yes, that's what I meant. I'll go back and edit it.
Garden Gear
New Member
I heard from Tora. Cycle Satiators not shipping any longer. Standard chargers have been reworked.
Cory151
Active Member
Great job explaining the workings of the CA. Here are some shot of much less efficiency as I average 45-50 w/h per mile, with rarely aggressive riding.
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Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
That's quite high, were you pedaling?
What is the range you get on a full charge? let's say averaging 23mph on a fairly flattish surface and with minimal pedaling?
Cory151
Active Member
I pedal in the highest gear only but after 40mph it's a little pointless. Basically ghost pedaling at 40mph ++ If i decide to kick things up a notch and do 50-55mph I usually stop pedaling and instead concentrate on trying to keep the bike steady.
That's a great question about the 23 mph as I have not tried that on a full battery. I would probably need to program a 750 watt (not sure how to do yet) limit into the CA to give you an accurate answer since the throttle is extremely touchy.
Jim W
Member
I have to tell you that I really, really appreciate the fact that the ODK version 3 comes with inner-tubes already filled with that tire goo substance. A couple of days ago I was riding home from class. About a quarter-mile outside the campus I ran over something sharp and punctured my rear tire. I heard the tire hissing for about 10 revolutions then the hissing stopped. That was it; my puncture was sealed. I was able to continue on home without even having to stop pedaling. (In reality, I did stop to confirm what had happened.)
Since the rear tire seemed to function normally on the rest of my ride, I didn't think anything further about it when I got home. The next day when I checked the tire pressure, I discovered it was down to 25 psi. (Normal pressure is 60 psi.) I pumped up the tire to 60 psi and rode it to Juiced Bikes (formerly Juiced Riders) because I wanted to buy a rear basket. When I got there I realized that the pressure in the rear tire had gone back down to 25 psi. So, what I learned from all this was that the inner-tube goo does not permanently seal punctures, but depending on the puncture size, it allows the tire to remain inflated enough to keep you from being stranded out on the road, or having to do a patch job in the wild.
While I was at Juiced Bikes getting my rear basket, they were kind enough to install a new inner-tube for free. All I can say is that Juiced Bikes are a classy act. They go the extra mile to ensure their customers are happy and safe on the road, and in doing so they inspire loyalty to their product. They earned my loyalty anyway. I'm going back down there next week, and lunch will be on me. By the way, I'm so happy that they installed the new inner-tube because it would have taken me most of the afternoon if I had attempted to do it myself. I watched carefully as they quickly and easily removed and replaced the rear tire, so I think I'll be able to do it myself in the future; however, it would be nice if they'd throw together an instructional video on changing ODK tire.
At any rate, I now have a rear basket that's built just like the front basket--solid as a tank. Yes it was pricey, but there's not much Juiced Bikes can do about that since the company that manufactures them, Stewart's RaceWorks, determines the cost. Nevertheless, it's built to carry more than the front basket. I can stick my tenor sax in it, secure it with a bungee cord (and perhaps some cushioning in the bottom) and I'll be good to go. I can basically get rid of the cheaper side baskets I installed earlier because much of my mid-week grocery shopping can go in the front and rear baskets now, without even having to bring along the trailer (caisson).
I'm a happy camper. Check out the latest photos:
Since the rear tire seemed to function normally on the rest of my ride, I didn't think anything further about it when I got home. The next day when I checked the tire pressure, I discovered it was down to 25 psi. (Normal pressure is 60 psi.) I pumped up the tire to 60 psi and rode it to Juiced Bikes (formerly Juiced Riders) because I wanted to buy a rear basket. When I got there I realized that the pressure in the rear tire had gone back down to 25 psi. So, what I learned from all this was that the inner-tube goo does not permanently seal punctures, but depending on the puncture size, it allows the tire to remain inflated enough to keep you from being stranded out on the road, or having to do a patch job in the wild.
While I was at Juiced Bikes getting my rear basket, they were kind enough to install a new inner-tube for free. All I can say is that Juiced Bikes are a classy act. They go the extra mile to ensure their customers are happy and safe on the road, and in doing so they inspire loyalty to their product. They earned my loyalty anyway. I'm going back down there next week, and lunch will be on me. By the way, I'm so happy that they installed the new inner-tube because it would have taken me most of the afternoon if I had attempted to do it myself. I watched carefully as they quickly and easily removed and replaced the rear tire, so I think I'll be able to do it myself in the future; however, it would be nice if they'd throw together an instructional video on changing ODK tire.
At any rate, I now have a rear basket that's built just like the front basket--solid as a tank. Yes it was pricey, but there's not much Juiced Bikes can do about that since the company that manufactures them, Stewart's RaceWorks, determines the cost. Nevertheless, it's built to carry more than the front basket. I can stick my tenor sax in it, secure it with a bungee cord (and perhaps some cushioning in the bottom) and I'll be good to go. I can basically get rid of the cheaper side baskets I installed earlier because much of my mid-week grocery shopping can go in the front and rear baskets now, without even having to bring along the trailer (caisson).
I'm a happy camper. Check out the latest photos:
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Jim123
Member
Jim W, looks like your tires have a lot of tread on them. But the rubber can start to get hard and cracked if ridden over oil a lot. When that happens the tires start to get flats more frequently. Tires aren't that expensive so it isn't that big of deal to replace them. Just something to watch for. I love how slime tubes hold normal use air pressure longer than non slime tubes, lowers the required maintenance of refilling air. You are right it is only a temporary fix during a real flat, but it is something to be thankful for when not getting stranded. I read about your crash and have seen YouTube videos of scooters crashing also. Smaller diameter wheels have lower spin inertia and a shorter length patch on the pavement. Means they tip over and skid easier. I have a folding bike with 20 inch tires so I am hoping to learn lesson seen from others about how careful to be. Best of luck .
Jim W
Member
I didn't know that about rubber and oil. I'll keep that in mind. And yes, I'm sold on slime tubes, particularly when a full-on flat tire means I have to push a 75 pound tank up all these hills where I live.
